Saints v Sinners!

[Ugly Mackems 133]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

Longstaff’s error was worse. Almiron is a good player if deployed properly, as has been shown. Lacks a bit of composure at times. I don’t recall anyone making out he was a world beater like but it’s par for the course for the resident bore to invent things to argue against 

Both mistakes were as bad as each other.

[Alex 30257]

 

[Isegrim 8868]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

Longstaff’s error was worse. Almiron is a good player if deployed properly, as has been shown. Lacks a bit of composure at times. I don’t recall anyone making out he was a world beater like but it’s par for the course for the resident bore to invent things to argue against 

He was easily our best player when we played Everton.But as soon as he made the mistake against Southampton it was clear he would be made a scapegoat. I actually was about to post during the first half about expecting him to be taken off. I was pleasantly surprised that he stayed on the pitch but I do still expect to see him being sacrificed while the likes of Hendrix Shelvey et are exempt from criticism.

[Ugly Mackems 133]

10 minutes ago, Isegrim said:

He was easily our best player when we played Everton.But as soon as he made the mistake against Southampton it was clear he would be made a scapegoat. I actually was about to post during the first half about expecting him to be taken off. I was pleasantly surprised that he stayed on the pitch but I do still expect to see him being sacrificed while the likes of Hendrix Shelvey et are exempt from criticism.

He dropped a howler....of course he'll be a scapegoat. As shit as the performance was we conceded from two individual errors. Almirons was a series of bad choices, Longstaffs  a poor effort at control. Both would have benefited from the old fashoined heave into row Z 

[Isegrim 8868]

22 minutes ago, Ugly Mackems said:

He dropped a howler....of course he'll be a scapegoat. As shit as the performance was we conceded from two individual errors. Almirons was a series of bad choices, Longstaffs  a poor effort at control. Both would have benefited from the old fashoined heave into row Z 

Do we have any player offering the same as Almiron? I am not against punishing players for obvious mistakes. But with Almiron it’s that I don’t think that the team can do without him. It is not about the player but how he is used.

You might not agree with it but Almiron was the player who was able to make the difference between negativity and a positive style of play under Rafa.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3183]

29 minutes ago, Ugly Mackems said:

He dropped a howler....of course he'll be a scapegoat. As shit as the performance was we conceded from two individual errors. Almirons was a series of bad choices, Longstaffs  a poor effort at control. Both would have benefited from the old fashoined heave into row Z 

You too.

[Dr Gloom 19744]

Almiron in the hole behind Wilson. ASM out wide. It’s so fucking obvious

[RobinRobin 9172]

9 hours ago, Ugly Mackems said:

He dropped a howler....of course he'll be a scapegoat. As shit as the performance was we conceded from two individual errors. Almirons was a series of bad choices, Longstaffs  a poor effort at control. Both would have benefited from the old fashoined heave into row Z 

[Alex 30257]

14 hours ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

You too.

 

[PaddockLad 14528]

10 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

Almiron in the hole behind Wilson. ASM out wide. It’s so fucking obvious

 

What job is he doing in there? playing cute passes & through balls into the box for Wilson? That's not in his game as far as I can make out. The lad is a runner. He creates space. For me he needs to pick the ball up slightly deeper than where you're suggesting ie on the counter. This no 10 stuff is mostly for teams playing a possession game. That's not us and hasn't really been since we had Cabaye. 

 

I think the key to this side is the Wilson/Fraser axis. One assists the other scores, with ASM chipping in mostly with the assists. Almiron is very important with his pace when we break though. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by PaddockLad

[The Fish 8950]

Is what we can expect for foreseeable? A decent performance followed by a shitshow? It'll be enough to keep Bruce in the job, surely?

 

Was saying elsewhere that the inconsistency is the biggest frustration; we've clearly got a squad that can play decent football, even if it isn't thrilling. So how can we follow a performance like we saw against Everton, with that terrible shit?

 

Surely it's obvious to Bruce now? Play 5 at the back, 2 in the middle, 2 out wide, one up front. Change the style depending on the opposition. Longball is fine on occasion, trying to pass it out is fine when appropriate. We've got plenty of players with pace, we've got decent centrebacks, so that's what the first team should be built around, right? Solid defensive shape and counter?

[The Fish 8950]

5 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

What job is he doing in there? playing cute passes & through balls into the box for Wilson? That's not in his game as far as I can make out. The lad is a runner. He creates space. For me he needs to pick the ball up slightly deeper than where you're suggesting ie on the counter. This no 10 stuff is mostly for teams playing a possession game. That's not us and hasn't really been since we had Cabaye. 

 

I think the key to this side is the Wilson/Fraser axis. One assists the other scores, with ASM chipping in mostly with the assists. Almiron is very important with his pace when we break though. 

Aye, if his game is all about turning defenders he needs to be driving with the ball, not receiving it in the most congested part of the pitch. Especially when he isn't the kind of player to press. Perez was, Almiron could be, but ASM isn't.

[Dr Gloom 19744]

14 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

What job is he doing in there? playing cute passes & through balls into the box for Wilson? That's not in his game as far as I can make out. The lad is a runner. He creates space. For me he needs to pick the ball up slightly deeper than where you're suggesting ie on the counter. This no 10 stuff is mostly for teams playing a possession game. That's not us and hasn't really been since we had Cabaye. 

 

I think the key to this side is the Wilson/Fraser axis. One assists the other scores, with ASM chipping in mostly with the assists. Almiron is very important with his pace when we break though. 

almiron's best games last season were all playing in the middle, off the main striker. he's wasted out wide. his and wilson's combined pace and movement will trouble most defences. 

the opposite seems to be the case with ASM. he looks more comfortable picking the ball up in deeper areas, taking men on in wide positions and carrying the ball half the length of the pitch before drawing a foul or putting a cross in. he doesn't look as comfortable in the number 10 role. i don't know how much of that is down to opposition teams realising he's the danger man now or whether it just isn't his role but he was far more effective last season too. 

[Dr Gloom 19744]

i would like to see fraser in the team too - I'd play him and ASM out wide with almiron through the middle just behind wilson

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PaddockLad 14528]

1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

almiron's best games last season were all playing in the middle, off the main striker. he's wasted out wide. his and wilson's combined pace and movement will trouble most defences. 

the opposite seems to be the case with ASM. he looks more comfortable picking the ball up in deeper areas, taking men on in wide positions and carrying the ball half the length of the pitch before drawing a foul or putting a cross in. he doesn't look as comfortable in the number 10 role. i don't know how much of that is down to opposition teams realising he's the danger man now or whether it just isn't his role but he was far more effective last season too. 

 

Fair enough, not how I see it his game/strengths though. I don't think his assist/goal stats bare it out either. 

 

With the forwards we have there's a very decent counter attacking side within our squad. That's mostly how I think we play by default due to the pace of Fraser, ASM & Almiron. This "work in progress" bullshit from Bruce is irrelevant. These are the players he's been given, he doesn't really know what to do with them. 

[PaddockLad 14528]

7 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

i would like to see fraser in the team too - I'd play him and ASM out wide with almiron through the middle just behind wilson

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I'd be very keen to see all three play.  However if you're envisaging Almiron in some sort of Beardsley role then I think you're mistaken. He's got more in common with Sissoko with his running/dribbling style. He punches holes into the opposition half drawing players to him & creating space for others . 

[Dr Gloom 19744]

5 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

 

Yeah I'd be very keen to see all three play.  However if you're envisaging Almiron in some sort of Beardsley role then I think you're mistaken. He's got more in common with Sissoko with his running/dribbling style. He punches holes into the opposition half drawing players to him & creating space for others . 

no, i agree that he's more of a ball carrier than a playmaker but i think he does it better from a central position, behind the main striker, and he showed last season that he can chip in with goals when he plays in that position too. 

i agree that the players we have are well suited to playing a counter attacking game. i also don't think your second striker has to be a traditional number 10 in the del piero or sheringham mould.

EDIT - craig bellamy wasn't that sort of player. his game was all about movement and pace and he was bloody brilliant playing just off shearer. i think almniron could so the same job for wilson, given the chance. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Dr Gloom

[PaddockLad 14528]

27 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

no, i agree that he's more of a ball carrier than a playmaker but i think he does it better from a central position, behind the main striker, and he showed last season that he can chip in with goals when he plays in that position too. 

i agree that the players we have are well suited to playing a counter attacking game. i also don't think your second striker has to be a traditional number 10 in the del piero or sheringham mould.

EDIT - craig bellamy wasn't that sort of player. his game was all about movement and pace and he was bloody brilliant playing just off shearer. i think almniron could so the same job for wilson, given the chance. 

 

Yeah I see that. That side could play anyway it wanted, it could play on the counter but we also had midfielders who could keep the ball, recycle it, pull defenders out of position then get Bellamy & Dyer to work with Nobby & Robert etc down the flanks to get in behind defences. This side can only play effectively  one way.

 

Our current speed merchants are all better off picking the ball up deeper, breaking quickly forward when the opposition are mostly in our half. In this system a no one player would be strictly in behind Wilson. I think the key pass in any break is wide to Fraser who's proven in the premier league he can get the ball to Wilson in a place where he can score from. Where they are on the pitch depends a lot on where the ball breaks  to. Am sure were singing off the same hymn sheet here but I think "no 10" is a bit of a red herring and doesn't really describe any of our players . 

[Dr Gloom 19744]

3 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

Yeah I see that. That side could play anyway it wanted, it could play on the counter but we also had midfielders who could keep the ball, recycle it, pull defenders out of position then get Bellamy & Dyer to work with Nobby & Robert etc down the flanks to get in behind defences. This side can only play effectively  one way.

 

Our current speed merchants are all better off picking the ball up deeper, breaking quickly forward when the opposition are mostly in our half. In this system a no one player would be strictly in behind Wilson. I think the key pass in any break is wide to Fraser who's proven in the premier league he can get the ball to Wilson in a place where he can score from. Where they are on the pitch depends a lot on where the ball breaks  to. Am sure were singing off the same hymn sheet here but I think "no 10" is a bit of a red herring and doesn't really describe any of our players . 

by number 10, i just meant the second striker, playing through the middle closest to wilson rather than traditional number 10.

ASM is probably the closest we have to a more traditional number 10 in terms of natural ability on the ball, and i can see why bruce has tied him in that position, to try to get him more involved closer to goal, but i think he's more effective when he picks up the ball in wide areas and with space ahead of him to run into, where the opposite is true of almiron. his best games for us have come when he's played through the middle. 

[Tom 13817]

Almirons mistake was terrible but there’s 5 defenders and a goalkeeper, including a team captain, who stood there like tits watching him do it. 
 

They should have been absolutely screaming at him to put it out but they didn’t. 

[Ugly Mackems 133]

8 minutes ago, Tom said:

Almirons mistake was terrible but there’s 5 defenders and a goalkeeper, including a team captain, who stood there like tits watching him do it. 
 

They should have been absolutely screaming at him to put it out but they didn’t. 

The defender moved deliberately to recieve a pass. He took the wrong option 3 times. 

[Dr Gloom 19744]

it was foolish play and a terrible part of the pitch to be trying some shit like that but that's exactly the point - it's not the area of the pitch you want a player like him, is it?

[Ayatollah Hermione 12737]

1 hour ago, PaddockLad said:

 

Yeah I see that. That side could play anyway it wanted, it could play on the counter but we also had midfielders who could keep the ball, recycle it, pull defenders out of position then get Bellamy & Dyer to work with Nobby & Robert etc down the flanks to get in behind defences. This side can only play effectively  one way.

 

Our current speed merchants are all better off picking the ball up deeper, breaking quickly forward when the opposition are mostly in our half. In this system a no one player would be strictly in behind Wilson. I think the key pass in any break is wide to Fraser who's proven in the premier league he can get the ball to Wilson in a place where he can score from. Where they are on the pitch depends a lot on where the ball breaks  to. Am sure were singing off the same hymn sheet here but I think "no 10" is a bit of a red herring and doesn't really describe any of our players . 

Think Fraser is probably the only one who is willing to bend his runs and break  behind from what I’ve seen. Lewis and Murphy can definitely pick those balls over the top so it might even be worth going Fraser-Wilson up top with Almiron and ASM either side, swapping flanks every so often and going 4-4-Fucking-2 

[Alex 30257]

 

2 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

no, i agree that he's more of a ball carrier than a playmaker but i think he does it better from a central position, behind the main striker, and he showed last season that he can chip in with goals when he plays in that position too. 

i agree that the players we have are well suited to playing a counter attacking game. i also don't think your second striker has to be a traditional number 10 in the del piero or sheringham mould.

EDIT - craig bellamy wasn't that sort of player. his game was all about movement and pace and he was bloody brilliant playing just off shearer. i think almniron could so the same job for wilson, given the chance. 

He’s not as good but he’s more in the Bellamy mould. He seems to better suited centrally than out wide too I agree. Getting the best out of him is probably beyond the manager though. 

[PaddockLad 14528]

4 minutes ago, Ayatollah Hermione said:

Think Fraser is probably the only one who is willing to bend his runs and break  behind from what I’ve seen. Lewis and Murphy can definitely pick those balls over the top so it might even be worth going Fraser-Wilson up top with Almiron and ASM either side, swapping flanks every so often and going 4-4-Fucking-2 

 

For my sins, I favour the Scottish national team above all others. Last month, he appeared in 3 games and was man of the match in all 3 playing precisely in the position you describe...he only played 20 mins of the first one too and was coming back from a lay off and wasn't properly match fit. He's a proven premier league match winner where ASM & Almiron still have a bit to prove for me.