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National service: an alternative to prison ?


Jimbo
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After witnessing the effects of programs such as "Bad Lads Army" on petty criminals/Chavs/local hardmen, would re-introduction of 1950's style national service be a good thing for petty criminals as an alternative to community service or remand ? or a minimum requirement of immigrants entering the country ???

 

Your thoughts please.

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Teaching them discipline along with it is IMO...

 

OK, so being past the age of conscription, my views are obviously different to what they were when I was in my teens.

 

But honestly, I think there would be significant advantage by sending people to do NS than not. There is little discipline amongst the youth of today's society.

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yes absolutely bring back national service

 

ensure that it is for everyone, and not just the lower classes though.

 

this whole thing about "Teaching chavs how to use a gun" is a little pointless as the purpose of National service is not to arm idiots, but to educate the youth about social and national responsibility, to educate them in the ways of respect and reciprocity.

 

so yes National Service should return and the sooner the better

 

it might even have the added benefit of re-instating some sense of national pride into the youth of today, rather than the apathetic attitude that plagues our nation.

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cant see why national service would teach anyone social responsibility

8345[/snapback]

 

Has to be said, it didnt do any of the previous generations any harm, on the whole they respected their elders and authority a lot more than the current young 'uns do*

 

 

 

*I now feel so so old for using that statement.

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did they,my gran reckoned all youth were the same,just their viewed from different ages........what she was saying about the youth when she was a gran,her gran had said to her..the "kids today" idea has been around for centuries(there was a great bit on "grumpy old men "where one of them read out a bit that was a ringer for todays youth,but was written by some bishop in the 1400's)rememeber the mods and rockers,krays,the countries worst ganglandtimes....all came when national service was about.

 

 

a year or so doing what i'll call civic work may be better.

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cant see why national service would teach anyone social responsibility

8345[/snapback]

 

I can't see how civic work would teach anyone social responsiblity ?

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cant see why national service would teach anyone social responsibility

8345[/snapback]

 

I can't see how civic work would teach anyone social responsiblity ?

8355[/snapback]

 

it's a natural reaction,if you spend all day working on something you dont like it when someone comes along and destroys it.

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rememeber the mods and rockers,krays,the countries worst gangland times....all came when national service was about.

 

8353[/snapback]

 

Yeah but they loved their mum.

 

Seriously though and Im not certain that National Service would sort this, the kids of today are way worse than ever, yes you always had thugs and tearaways but nowadays they are just scum, dont care who they hurt, horrible little twats the lot of em.

 

Compare the Krays to any gang boss now and the differences are there for all to see, yes the Krays were ruthless but at the end of the day they were only like that on rivals etc. Nowadays the number of gangs that would happily kill, rape etc for the sheer hell of it is ridiculous.

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rememeber the mods and rockers,krays,the countries worst gangland times....all came when national service was about.

 

8353[/snapback]

 

Yeah but they loved their mum.

 

Seriously though and Im not certain that National Service would sort this, the kids of today are way worse than ever, yes you always had thugs and tearaways but nowadays they are just scum, dont care who they hurt, horrible little twats the lot of em.

 

Compare the Krays to any gang boss now and the differences are there for all to see, yes the Krays were ruthless but at the end of the day they were only like that on rivals etc. Nowadays the number of gangs that would happily kill, rape etc for the sheer hell of it is ridiculous.

8357[/snapback]

 

it's always been there....but that shouldnt stop us trying to do something about it.

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Previous generations who did have national service were all morally better than us. There were no murders, no rapes and so much respect for the establishment that crime was almost unknown.

 

This was of course also the generations that generally ignored child abuse, sent rape victims and single mothers to asylums and then lectured subsequent generation on loose morals.

 

BTW The Krays were rotten evil bastards, anyone who defends them is an apologist for murder.

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you mention that it is not nice when you spend all day doing something and somone comes along and destroys it.

Can the same not be said for the effect of being on the receiving end of harsh boot camp discipline? It's not nice and the only alternative is to actually do as you're told, and that when you do as you're told you not only avoid punishment, but you also gain respect and trust.

 

we might even see a gentle improvement in the general state of health for many of the youth, it's a fine way to instil good habits, like eating a balanced diet (I'm talking meat and two veg not haute cuisine) and regular exercise.

 

I for one can see few social drawbacks, but of course I have no idea as to the cost in terms of monetary, infrastructure and beauracracy... But I'm no law maker.

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Previous generations who did have national service were all morally better than us. There were no murders, no rapes and so much respect for the establishment that crime was almost unknown.

 

This was of course also the generations that generally ignored child abuse, sent rape victims and single mothers to asylums and then lectured subsequent generation on loose morals.

 

BTW The Krays were rotten evil bastards, anyone who defends them is an apologist for murder.

8396[/snapback]

 

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the generation that had National service were without rape or murder or violent crime, what the suggestion was a the start of this thread was that a 50's style national service period as a punishment for loutish behaviour would serve much better than a prison sentence that most of these twats consider some kind of badge of honour, and who knows might instil some respect and discipline which is seriously lacking in most.

 

Instead of the current rationale to send them to prison which merely serves as a finishing school for thugs or a community service period of cleaning graffiti or picking up litter.

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The first series of bad lads army showed how well it can work. They took a bunch of fuckwitts, arseholes and basically criminal scum in some cases and turned them round to such an extent that some of them wanted to join the army for real.

 

They got discipline, father figures (as many had absent fathers and single mothers) a purpose in life and actually felt worthwhile, its not rocket science.

 

I'd have it back in like a shot for juvenile offenders and keep them in it for 2 years.

 

I wouldn't bring it back as mandatory for everyone as i don't agree with people's freedom of choice being taken away, except when they're criminals.

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All bollix

 

The Army is for fighting - not for social work

 

The soldiers would hated it - during national Service they spent all their time training recruits and jsut as they became reasonable soldiers they went back to Civvie STreet

 

Much of the modern services requries in depth training in electronics, coms, engines etc not simple square bashing

 

If its NATIONAL service we'd (well you lot under 20) would ALL have to serve -no letouts................ how do you fancy 2 years locked up with a bunch of idiot charvas.............

 

If its NATIONAL Service all the ladies would be in as well - the old system was buggered just trying to handle all the lads - too many people

When you do it? Age 18 -20??? Then people go to college for 3 years - christ they'll be 25 before they earn a penny..................

 

I'm old enough to remember it and I can tell you there was great enthusiasm when it finally went...........

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thing is Rob, we need to instil genuine respect for authority

 

modern kids have had their "rights" explained to them in glorious technicolour, they know that teachers basically have no power over them, so they can get away with murder. They know that under a certain age they can commit crime and get away with it, they know that their teenage mother will back them up all the way and not actually punish them for bad behaviour.

 

if the state needs to bring up the kids, because the parents are incapable, then so be it, boot camp the lot of them. I for one think I would have benefitted from a stint in such a place, certainly I would have a idea of how best to stay fit and be a little more self sufficient.

 

I might even have learnt how to pay respect to those in authority.

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All bollix

 

The Army is for fighting - not for social work

 

The soldiers would hated it - during national Service they spent all their time training recruits and jsut as they became reasonable soldiers they went back to Civvie STreet

 

Much of the modern services requries in depth training in electronics, coms, engines etc  not simple square bashing

 

If its NATIONAL service we'd (well you lot under 20) would ALL have to serve -no letouts................  how do you fancy 2 years locked up with a bunch of idiot charvas.............

 

If its NATIONAL Service all the ladies would be in as well - the old system was buggered just trying to handle all the lads - too many people

When you do it?  Age 18 -20???  Then people go to college for 3 years - christ they'll be 25 before they earn a penny..................

 

I'm old enough to remember it and I can tell you there was great enthusiasm when it finally went...........

8428[/snapback]

 

 

Completely missed the point.

 

This is not about entering the lawless fuckwitts into the regular army, this is about giving them 50's National service style treatment as a replacement of further over crowding our prisons which are little more than finishing schools for criminals, in this way they might actually develop some respect and discipline, and who knows, turn them into worthwhile human beings, does prison do that ?

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I cannot see how stunting the professional development of thousands of young people can be seen as a good thing.

 

I've just finished uni at 22 and won't receive my professional qualifications for another three years. Where the hell do you fit national service in there?

 

Boot camps teach rule by force and abolute power. We want a respectful one, not one that cowers.

 

I for one, would have been pissed off if I had to waste good years of my life because the scrotes who would otherwise make my life miserable cannot behave. The fact I'm a bit older now has not changed this view.

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I cannot see how stunting the professional development of thousands of young people can be seen as a good thing.

 

I've just finished uni at 22 and won't receive my professional qualifications for another three years. Where the hell do you fit national service in there?

 

Boot camps teach rule by force and abolute power. We want a respectful one, not one that cowers.

 

I for one, would have been pissed off if I had to waste good years of my life because the scrotes who would otherwise make my life miserable cannot behave. The fact I'm a bit older now has not changed this view.

8473[/snapback]

 

This is not about compulsary national service, this is about using it as a way of punishing and more importantly reforming petty criminals.

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This is not about compulsary national service, this is about using it as a way of punishing and more importantly reforming petty criminals.

8476[/snapback]

 

That's not what the original post suggested.

 

Anything that keeps the lawless away from society at large will ultimately be of social benefit.

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