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Because they see themselves as women? I don't know what the correct term is or who objects to what. Would it be okay to constantly refer to black people as Black British rather than British?

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I don't mind that they see themselves as women - I guess it's a question of whether that's acceptable to other women. 

 

I think the majority are okay with it but that doesn't mean the rest should be deemed hateful if they aren't. 

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These are people who see the world in terms of where we all fall with respect of privilege, and any disagreement is immediately hateful.

 

This is not normal for left wingers. I remain, last I checked, a 'far left radical' </CT>, but I'm open to at least letting people work through in their heads how they feel about something without shouting and screaming at them. It's not dialogue, it's just intolerance.

Edited by Rayvin
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20 minutes ago, NJS said:

I don't mind that they see themselves as women - I guess it's a question of whether that's acceptable to other women. 

 

I think the majority are okay with it but that doesn't mean the rest should be deemed hateful if they aren't. 

There was a time when white women felt uncomfortable with black women Using the same toilets. The facts show that biological women aren’t at risk.

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4 hours ago, ewerk said:

There was a time when white women felt uncomfortable with black women Using the same toilets. The facts show that biological women aren’t at risk.

 

If the facts show that, then biological women who oppose it are being transphobic.

 

Not sure there can be any argument on that if actual evidence supports it.

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I don't know what either of you are on about. I think I just have a total blind spot on this cos my brain fully cannot compute what the different sides are arguing. 

 

One thing for sure though, if you could somehow harness the energy that is poured into being offended and outraged about the subject, you could solve the climate crisis within a month. 

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7 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

If the facts show that, then biological women who oppose it are being transphobic.

 

Not sure there can be any argument on that if actual evidence supports it.

What do you mean ‘if’? You cheeky fucker.

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The argument as I understand it us that there is a difference between your sex which is biologically determined and your gender.

Therefore there is a different lived experience between the lived experience of someone who is born onto the female sex and someone who isn't.

Anybody who believes the former has the hell hounds of twitter unleashed upon them.

There is a nuanced discussion to be had, but there is nowhere to have the discussion.

I dont think Rowling is the best advocate, but the response to her doesn't help the discussion that is needed

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It’s the theoretical element that confuses the fuck out of me. I can understand arguments over whether trans women should use women’s toilets, be able to change their sex on their passport etc. but when people start talking about lived experiences then I don’t see the point in the debate.
 

Are cis women saying that they’re more of a woman than trans women? Is recognising trans women as women diluting their place in the world?

Edited by ewerk
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That last bit is the bit that confuses me. Like it's a zero sum game. Although that can't be what the argument is about so I just revert to assuming that I'm incapable of grasping it. 

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31 minutes ago, ewerk said:

It’s the theoretical element that confuses the fuck out of me. I can understand arguments over whether trans women should use women’s toilets, be able to change their sex on their passport etc. but when people start talking about lived experiences then I don’t see the point in the debate.
 

Are cis women saying that they’re more of a woman than trans women? Is recognising trans women as women diluting their place in the world?

They aren't saying they are more of a woman they are just saying there is a difference. They aren't saying Trans woman aren't women.  

Interestingly there isn't the same heated debate between The Trans F toM community.  

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12 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said:

They aren't saying they are more of a woman they are just saying there is a difference. They aren't saying Trans woman aren't 

But to what practical end?

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22 minutes ago, ewerk said:

But to what practical end?

 

It's an ideological argument. Seriously, this is the left, it shouldn't be news to you that it's tearing itself apart over an interpretation of something.

 

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16 minutes ago, Ayatollah Hermione said:

I don’t think they’re after some sort of practical solution, just that the wider world become more aware of the nuances around them.

The cock and balls probably give that away.

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8 hours ago, spongebob toonpants said:

The argument as I understand it us that there is a difference between your sex which is biologically determined and your gender.

Therefore there is a different lived experience between the lived experience of someone who is born onto the female sex and someone who isn't.

Anybody who believes the former has the hell hounds of twitter unleashed upon them.

There is a nuanced discussion to be had, but there is nowhere to have the discussion.

I dont think Rowling is the best advocate, but the response to her doesn't help the discussion that is needed

i'll never understand the appeal of this medium, the interwebs are toxic enough for me.

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