ewerk 26192 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I would wager that such moves are driven more by lawyers for corporations than they are by real people. A corporation might absolutely decide that its safer to just avoid gendering people - IMO eventually they'll avoid humanising people altogether and we'll simply become numbers - but that's the legally safe option. It's PC gawn mad, No. 76574. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4183 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, Rayvin said: For the rest of us, I think we can go through life being respectful of other people whilst being driven by genuine compassion and decency, rather than a set of rules mandated to us by "authority" and which probably harms the cause more than just letting people navigate it themselves as they become increasingly comfortable with it in a social setting. The problem I have with that, and why I'm perhaps a little more tolerant of the ham-fisted efforts of the likes of Wykis diversity officer, is that people often don't navigate these things themselves without things pushing them to do it. Progress one coffin at a time isn't really quick enough when we know how disproportionally represented the trans community are as victims of violent crime and suicide. Look at the fucking states (I know I know) trying to row back on trans rights as we speak, because no one is forcing them to accept it, they drive backwards with fury because the cunts who hate these people for no good reason are far angrier about it than those of us who would like to just let acceptance come organically. Those people and those beliefs (hopefully) will eventually die but not before many more confused and unhappy kids are forced into lives they don't want either kill themselves or someone does it for them because they don't want to hide who they are. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26192 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, Andrew said: It's small, but it will grow as it becomes more commonplace and more accepted because thats how it always works. It happened with left handedness and it continues to happen with people not being straight. (both of which effect me directly) it wasn't until I (fairly recently) accepted a few things about myself and came out that I got a bit more involved in LGBTQ+...stuff (for lack of a better term) that I started meeting more people who were trans, non-binary or gender-fluid and was actually able to bring those issues into my real everyday life. Its important to people, even though they're a very small group of people as it stands, and it requires so little from me that its not really even worth calling it "effort" so I do my best to respect it and if it happens to make the world a slightly better place for someone who just wants to live their life in peace and acceptance (and yeah fuck it, if it makes it worse for some bigoted prick along the way) then thats great and its worthwhile. Is this your TT coming out moment? Congrats if so! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4183 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Just now, ewerk said: Is this your TT coming out moment? Congrats if so! I suppose it is. It's somewhat moot in a practical sense as I am very happily married to Mrs A but yeah. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38597 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, Andrew said: I suppose it is. It's somewhat moot in a practical sense as I am very happily married to Mrs A but yeah. Andrew- “ I think I’ll get some decking this weekend” Mrs. Andrew- “ But we don’t have a garden?” Andrew - “ Yis…” I’ll just report myself … 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4183 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said: I’ll just report myself … Don't worry, you don't need to. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 13991 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Andrew said: The problem I have with that, and why I'm perhaps a little more tolerant of the ham-fisted efforts of the likes of Wykis diversity officer, is that people often don't navigate these things themselves without things pushing them to do it. Progress one coffin at a time isn't really quick enough when we know how disproportionally represented the trans community are as victims of violent crime and suicide. Look at the fucking states (I know I know) trying to row back on trans rights as we speak, because no one is forcing them to accept it, they drive backwards with fury because the cunts who hate these people for no good reason are far angrier about it than those of us who would like to just let acceptance come organically. Those people and those beliefs (hopefully) will eventually die but not before many more confused and unhappy kids are forced into lives they don't want either kill themselves or someone does it for them because they don't want to hide who they are. Yep, all true. But equally, mandating speech has thrown trans rights straight across the wider battleground of free speech and into the culture wars. Consequently, right wing populist governments are using it as an attack line and are being successful in doing so, painting wokeism, and by extension trans people (who are at this point the ultimate 'threat' above all others in the minds of the culture warrior right) as the great threat to freedom. These governments are winning elections and causing rampant and unconstrained damage - and they're doing so because they're able to point to "the left" controlling everyone. It's laughable, it really is, but that's what they're doing. They are enabled to roll back the rights you mention in the states because they can hold up things like mandates on speech as attacks on freedoms, attacks on women, attacks on traditional values, whatever. It's only recently that trans rights have become such a furious battleground for this, and it is very much wrapped up in the culture war. There is a cost to this either way, I think between you and I it probably just comes down to which side we think costs more. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8954 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Yep, all true. But equally, mandating speech has thrown trans rights straight across the wider battleground of free speech and into the culture wars. Consequently, right wing populist governments are using it as an attack line and are being successful in doing so, painting wokeism, and by extension trans people (who are at this point the ultimate 'threat' above all others in the minds of the culture warrior right) as the great threat to freedom. These governments are winning elections and causing rampant and unconstrained damage - and they're doing so because they're able to point to "the left" controlling everyone. It's laughable, it really is, but that's what they're doing. They are enabled to roll back the rights you mention in the states because they can hold up things like mandates on speech as attacks on freedoms, attacks on women, attacks on traditional values, whatever. It's only recently that trans rights have become such a furious battleground for this, and it is very much wrapped up in the culture war. There is a cost to this either way, I think between you and I it probably just comes down to which side we think costs more. Is it a consequence? I honestly believe that the demagogues of the right will cast around for an obscure topic to enrage their base about and push it front and centre. Cancelling Christmas, straight bananas, all the way up to paedophile gangs, and trans-rights. These things are either inconsequential, or impact a tiny amount of people, yet become part of the national conversation. Partly, imo, to distract the populous from the issues that impact more people to a greater degree. Like climate change, government incompetence, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19750 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Renton said: You just add your avatar instead, don't you? i used to identify as a pair of wet pants, now i choose the sausage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 37 minutes ago, The Fish said: Is it a consequence? I honestly believe that the demagogues of the right will cast around for an obscure topic to enrage their base about and push it front and centre. Cancelling Christmas, straight bananas, all the way up to paedophile gangs, and trans-rights. These things are either inconsequential, or impact a tiny amount of people, yet become part of the national conversation. Partly, imo, to distract the populous from the issues that impact more people to a greater degree. Like climate change, government incompetence, etc. It's a consequence insofar as you can see these sorts of things splashed across right wing media, usually misunderstood and lied about or taken to extremes, but still. I've followed the culture war since a time when I was laughed at for referring to it as such, and trans people have been a key target throughout. Started off with videos of people being "triggered", hyperbolic takes by teenagers being used to demonstrate the grave threat to Western civilisation that "wokeness", not that it was called this at that point, represented. They're always using the examples we provide. Peterson rose to prominence off resisting mandated speech laws in Canada; taking the knee is a form of cultural Marxism, etc. You could argue that they would simply invent or find other stories to inflame their base about of course but the question is really about whether they would be so successful. If you think 100% of the people voting for the Tories or Republicans are racist, homophobic bigots then maybe you're right. But for me, a big chunk of those voting for them are simply uninformed morons who are probably decent enough people ensared in the nets of believable right wing hysteria. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26192 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Rayvin said: hysteria. You sexist pig. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30260 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Fucking hell, Andrew. I never realised you were cack-handed 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8954 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Rayvin said: It's a consequence insofar as you can see these sorts of things splashed across right wing media, usually misunderstood and lied about or taken to extremes, but still. I've followed the culture war since a time when I was laughed at for referring to it as such, and trans people have been a key target throughout. Started off with videos of people being "triggered", hyperbolic takes by teenagers being used to demonstrate the grave threat to Western civilisation that "wokeness", not that it was called this at that point, represented. They're always using the examples we provide. Peterson rose to prominence off resisting mandated speech laws in Canada; taking the knee is a form of cultural Marxism, etc. You could argue that they would simply invent or find other stories to inflame their base about of course but the question is really about whether they would be so successful. If you think 100% of the people voting for the Tories or Republicans are racist, homophobic bigots then maybe you're right. But for me, a big chunk of those voting for them are simply uninformed morons who are probably decent enough people ensared in the nets of believable right wing hysteria. Aren't uninformed morons way more likely to be racist, homophobic bigots? I think the overwhelming majority of people who vote Tory or Republican are self interested first and foremost. What are my rights, what am I owed, why doesn't everyone share MY opinion. I think that focus means they're more susceptible to stories that shift the responsibility for their lot in life away from them and onto others. Blame the immigrants for lack of job prospects. Can't say and do what you want with impunity? That's because of the snowflakes. It's not the people you support that have fucked it, it's these other people. It could be said the same is true the other way, we blame the Tories for a lot in life. But, to be fair, there's evidence to back that up... I think that when Trans-rights doesn't get the good ol' boys revved up any more they'll pivot to something else. Anything that is considered 'other' will suffice. Some minority group that practises multiple partner relationships will be 'Comin' for your kids!!!'. These 5 teachers want to cover African history and not European, "They're indoctrinating the children!" And because of social media, shit like this will be exaggerated beyond lunacy and be the fall of society for Fox news et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 I'm not sure I agree on the point about being self interested. I really do think a lot of people only receive messaging on issues like this by "their paper" or relevant TV or YouTube channels. So the message doesn't come through as "Trans people have daily struggles reconciling their identifies with their lived experience and this is the cause of significant stress and turmoil within their lives, leading to high rates of suicide and mental health problems. We hope that by creating awareness of these issues and encouraging people to talk to and interact with the trans community, we can create a better society for everyone". They come through as "trans people demand that you use these words when talking to them and you face the sack if you refuse! Another example of free speech being curtailed and sacrificed at the altar of wokeness. Next they're coming for Christmas, 'real' women, and your very manhood!!" And I really do think that this messaging issue can be attributed to a reasonable enough size of right wing voters so as to deliver majorities to people like Trump and Johnson. I don't think they're any more or less self interested than you or I, they are just only getting information filtered to them by bigots - and they've had it for so long they just think it's normal. Something like 85% of the country believes the NHS should be free to all - yet 40% vote for a government that is systematically privatising it. 90% profess to be happy to live next to immigrant families, yet 52% voted for brexit to keep out immigrants. If you survey people policy by policy in this country, instead of by party, the Tories get 12% of the vote. The difference between that number and the one we see is media bullshit and narrative pushing, IMO. Most people are decent, just woefully uninformed and stubbornly sticking to it. This means messaging from the left really does matter. In my view at least. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Though I agree that the right will pivot from issue to issue manufacturing outrage in response to attempts to treat people compassionately. That's baked in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 26627 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Ok, time to spill the beans after some long soul searching. Although born on the opposite side of the world to where I now live on the foggy Tyne and having only one of my parents from Newcastle upon Tyne, I'd like to officially identify as a 'Geordie' and would be grateful if this board could accept me as I am. It wasn't an easy decision to make to bare my soul on here but I'm hoping for board wide support now that asprilla and co are banned. Cheers. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14529 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 I don’t identify as any UK based regional sub ethnic group due to my unique heritage. I do however identify as 100% MAG 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38597 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Howmanheyman said: born on the opposite side of the world Hexham? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34196 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 1 hour ago, PaddockLad said: I don’t identify as any UK based regional sub ethnic group due to my unique heritage. I do however identify as 100% MAG I think of you as a wannabe-jock soyboy. You're welcome to identify as that if you wish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14529 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 12 minutes ago, Gemmill said: I think of you as a wannabe-jock soyboy. You're welcome to identify as that if you wish. Am uncategorisable. Am the subject of an anthropological study by Harvard post graduates 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 26627 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 41 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said: Hong Kong? FYP 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 9172 Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 7 hours ago, Monkeys Fist said: Hexham? Anyone born West of Corbridge is clearly forren 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 26627 Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 @Christmas Tree Were you at the metro centre today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 26 minutes ago, Howmanheyman said: @Christmas Tree Were you at the metro centre today? Hell on Earth? No Spent the day in the garden pruning my plums and sticking a ground spike in for our rotary dryer. Then watched Snowden 7/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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