Monkeys Fist 38560 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Didn't they catch some chap and put him in a sports bag, in the bath? Oh...... wait...... that was suicide, wasn't it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30241 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Not being funny, but how often is it in their interests to actually "catch a spy"? When it's probably more valuable to trade that operative for whatever is their interests at the time? I'm guessing it would be in their interests since it would justified their existence. And plenty of spies have been caught, it's just MI6 weren't directly responsible for that. I suspect there's a straightforward explanation, i.e. they're a bunch of incompetent ex-public school boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) From what I gather, MI6 spend a considerable amount of time on data analysis nowadays. Moreover, if you've tapped a spy, isn't it more beneficial to let them stay that way, feeding them false information and limiting the damage they can do? Otherwise the 'enemy' will just set up a new one that you have to catch. Also, they hire based on linguistic talents as well, not just ex-public school. They appeared at careers fairs when I was at uni for Chinese language speakers. They didn't appreciate my anti-establishment thinking though, and I was promptly told that Tories tend to be better for this sort of role... Edited August 1, 2014 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8949 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I'm guessing it would be in their interests since it would justified their existence. And plenty of spies have been caught, it's just MI6 weren't directly responsible for that. I suspect there's a straightforward explanation, i.e. they're a bunch of incompetent ex-public school boys. I don't think it's as straightforward as them being shit. If catching spies justified their existence, surely a 100% failure to do that would have even incompetent pay masters thinking it's a waste of bloody time. as Rayvin suggests; surely it's the information that is valuable, rather than the operative. If you know the whereabouts and activities of Gunther von Nastyspy, it's much more valuable to misdirect than to snatch him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30241 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I don't think it's as straightforward as them being shit. If catching spies justified their existence, surely a 100% failure to do that would have even incompetent pay masters thinking it's a waste of bloody time. as Rayvin suggests; surely it's the information that is valuable, rather than the operative. If you know the whereabouts and activities of Gunther von Nastyspy, it's much more valuable to misdirect than to snatch him up. If you look at the Cold War and before, which is specifically what the blog I was on about talks about, they were kept busy by largely investigating what turned out to be little more than their own paranoid delusions. They managed to successfully convince their superiors of these delusions in some cases and when they were unable to do so, made the assumption that their superiors (in government and in the agency) were themselves working for the enemy. Their incompetence was demonstrated by a number of spies being discovered by accident or due to their own actions, but not by anything MI5 did (I mistakely cited MI6 earlier). It's also noteworthy that several of them released memoirs later which alluded to these superiors being probably Russian agents (after they were conveniently no longer alive and able to defend themselves) but didn't wax lyrical about how they cleverly manipulated spies rather than unveiling them (to the best of my knowledge), which they could've done without revealing names and too many details. Anyway, here's a link to the piece, if you're interested: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/BUGGER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8949 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 If you look at the Cold War and before, which is specifically what the blog I was on about talks about, they were kept busy by largely investigating what turned out to be little more than their own paranoid delusions. They managed to successfully convince their superiors of these delusions in some cases and when they were unable to do so, made the assumption that their superiors (in government and in the agency) were themselves working for the enemy. Their incompetence was demonstrated by a number of spies being discovered by accident or due to their own actions, but not by anything MI5 did (I mistakely cited MI6 earlier). It's also noteworthy that several of them released memoirs later which alluded to these superiors being probably Russian agents (after they were conveniently no longer alive and able to defend themselves) but didn't wax lyrical about how they cleverly manipulated spies rather than unveiling them (to the best of my knowledge), which they could've done without revealing names and too many details. Anyway, here's a link to the piece, if you're interested: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/BUGGER It's understandable I was hesitant to click that link. "BBC" "Bugger"... I mean it's just asking for trouble isn't it? Interesting read that, and while I don't doubt that MI5 is like many government offices (stocked with a healthy supply of useless, chinless berks), the picture he paints a history of abject incompetence is, for me, unlikely the whole story. It's very nature is supposed to be the trade of secrets & lies, why then would you assume that a BBC blogger has dug up the whole truth? Isn't it just as likely that while everything he's reported is true, there are examples of success that would balance out the failures that remain a secret? If, as he suggests, MI5 has been bereft of competence since it's inception (indeed it's creation was largely in response to a Daily Mail article, apparently) would we not have suffered more for it? If our counter-spy network was populated by a roster of Inspector Clouseaus, wouldn't the Germans have been better prepared for our plans during both World Wars? Unless their spies are as bad as our spy catchers? to be clear, I don't doubt there are useless fuckers, because I know full well the pools from which they historically looked to recruit, I'm just not ready to say MI5's history is entirely as bad as the version Adam Curtis portrays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ 0 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Also, on the topic of conspiracy.... Theory: The U. S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Plan to Terrorize the U. S. PopulaceThe Joint Chiefs are the 5 generals and admirals in charge of the 5 branches of the U. S military. In 1962, those men were George Decker (Army), David Shoup (Marines), Georg Anderson, Jr. (Navy), Curtis LeMay (Air Force), and Edwin Roland (Coast Guard), along with a few others, all chaired by Lyman Lemnitzer (Army). The entire board of the Joint Chiefs of Staff proposed, drafted, and agreed on a plan to concoct a casus belli for war against Communist Cuba, under Fidel Castro. Their collective motive was to reduce the constant threat of Communist encroachment into the Western Hemisphere, per the Monroe Doctrine. This plan was named Operation Northwoods, and entailed the most impossibly indifferent cruelty ever envisioned by a government against its own people. In order to sway public sentiment in favor of the war, the Joint Chiefs planned to bomb high pedestrian-traffic areas in major American cities, including Miami, New York, Washington, D. C., and possibly Chicago and Los Angeles; to frame U. S. citizens for these bombings; to shoot innocent, unarmed civilians on the streets in full view of hundreds of witnesses; to napalm military and merchant vessels in port, while people were aboard; to sink vessels carrying Cuban refugees bound for Florida; to hijack planes for ransom. Not only did every single member of the Joint Chiefs sign his approval of this plan, they then sent it to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara for his approval, and then to President Kennedy. McNamara claimed years later never to have seen it, but that he would have rejected it. Kennedy, however, did receive it, and promptly called a meeting of the Joint Chiefs, in which he threatened, with severe profanity, to court martial and incarcerate every one of them. The President cannot actually do this, but can order the Congress and military branches to do so, and in these circumstances, they most certainly would have. But Kennedy decided that it would cause irreparable disrespect around the world for the U. S. military. He did remove Lemnitzer from his position as Chairman and assign him as Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, not much of a demotion.Theorists claim that the military may have had a hand in Kennedy’s assassination because of his blistering rebuke of the Joint Chiefs. This, however, remains unproven. This one was supposed to have been kept under wraps till around 2038 I think, but because a bunch of files were released in the 90's, it came out. This one isn't really a "conspiracy theory" per se. It's documented fact with both the bare bones of the plot, and those who were involved in the planning, along with the rejection. The Joint Chiefs of Staff were, among others, desperate to go to war with Cuba by any means necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 If you look at the Cold War and before, which is specifically what the blog I was on about talks about, they were kept busy by largely investigating what turned out to be little more than their own paranoid delusions. They managed to successfully convince their superiors of these delusions in some cases and when they were unable to do so, made the assumption that their superiors (in government and in the agency) were themselves working for the enemy. Their incompetence was demonstrated by a number of spies being discovered by accident or due to their own actions, but not by anything MI5 did (I mistakely cited MI6 earlier). It's also noteworthy that several of them released memoirs later which alluded to these superiors being probably Russian agents (after they were conveniently no longer alive and able to defend themselves) but didn't wax lyrical about how they cleverly manipulated spies rather than unveiling them (to the best of my knowledge), which they could've done without revealing names and too many details. Anyway, here's a link to the piece, if you're interested: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/BUGGER You get a free coffee in that big ole building tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 This one was supposed to have been kept under wraps till around 2038 I think, but because a bunch of files were released in the 90's, it came out. This one isn't really a "conspiracy theory" per se. It's documented fact with both the bare bones of the plot, and those who were involved in the planning, along with the rejection. The Joint Chiefs of Staff were, among others, desperate to go to war with Cuba by any means necessary. Think all that Gulf war stuff should be made public immediately so we can get hold of rabbit face Bliar before he reaches a billion in consultation fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 5889 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Solicitors have agreed to knock £100 off due to them being small and shit. We could go with a new solicitors and skip the £250 charge altogether but god knows how much time that would add on to things. £100 is better than a kick in the teeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ 0 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Think all that Gulf war stuff should be made public immediately so we can get hold of rabbit face Bliar before he reaches a billion in consultation fees. Agreed/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Solicitors have agreed to knock £100 off due to them being small and shit. We could go with a new solicitors and skip the £250 charge altogether but god knows how much time that would add on to things. £100 is better than a kick in the teeth Agreed, I'd probably make the same call. At the end of the day, you're in a better position than you were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Last update for a while. Spent yesterday and overnight in hospital. As I mentioned had the tube up my groin all the way to both sides of my brain in two different actions. The upshot is, the short term memory on the left side is quite fucked, the right not bad. Was a 2 hour procedure in the theatre. I could go on all day about the details but in basic terms, they can save me even if it's malignant but there's a down side. It's so big even if it's not it needs removing now. The down side is this, i've had some brain damage already, and they need the tumour out. The result will be i'll suffer even more permanent brain damage. It won't be a great deal but it will effect my short term memory a little bit more even. My long term memory and physical health will be as brilliant as they are now, but it's the short term that will be effected. Crack like forgetting to flush the bog. I'll still be me and it's a price i'll have to pay to live and remain relatively normal. They said if it's malignant even I've potentially got 10 years or even more, but if it's just a benign tumour when they do this, I should look at the impact on life expectancy like brain trauma suffered in a serious car crash, so in effect 2 years less than I'd expect to live, so ye naa 78, 80 etc.... I can't grumble, it will effect me, but it's giving me a chance to live removing it, and I'm so kind I've agreed that they can keep me tumour for research. Sadly my personality won't change and i'll still be a mouthy annoying cunt in life and on here. It all starts August 14, and I could take up to 3 month to recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 If only that tumour could talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken 119 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 On the upside at least you won't remember how shit England and Newcastle have been. Lucky you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 5889 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 So in laymans terms you're fine and you've just been a big fanny this whole time That's great news mate, you can get back to planning kids and houses now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38560 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Positive news for the most part Stevie. And don't worry about the short term memory loss, we'll remind you, often, about how much you love South Tyneside. ( have you asked them about the chances of gaining any Superpowers btw, you never know!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Great news overall, Stevie. Good luck with it! The singularity approaches anyway, so no need to worry about lifespan. You get to be an annoying cunt for eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34167 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Aye good stuff Stevie. Did you say owt daft to Dr Split Arse or were you on your best behaviour. If this is your last update for a while, all the best for the 14th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken 119 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Fingers crossed for you Stevie mate if you dont get on before the 14th hope all goes well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken 119 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34167 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Kenneth, have you been at the Jesus juice again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38560 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Book yourself a taxi with CT to take you in on the 14th, Stevie- you'll have forgotten there's owt wrong with you by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken 119 Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Kenneth, have you been at the Jesus juice again? No, lanky one. I see what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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