Renton 17744 Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 which only goes to show not everything is as simple as being black and white. I can see your point that they may have had reservations in the summer, but cast your mind back. Did YOU ? I did about Gullit but was hopeful about Dalglish. After the season started in both those cases, the penny dropped with me they had to go, but in Bobby Robsons case I never felt like that at all, you could tell that it was a false position, pretty much the same as his first 2 years as manager, which were pretty mediocre with money tight too but he knew what he was doing and you could sense that. I should have said "shit start and seeing it wasn't going to improve". 138851[/snapback] course its not easy but like I said its the reason the guys at the top get paid the big bucks. I didnt think Dalglsih was the right man at that time. The reasons for Dalglishs dismissal werent born out of those two games though. No one with any sense makes a decision based on two games. If the doubts at board level were serious and strong enough to force his departure after two draws then they should have got rid in the summer. It would have been the best thing for the club. If they'd have kept him theres nothing to suggest out of those two games that we'd have done worse than the previous season. We werent in a desperate situation like you could say with Gullit and Souness. Robsons is a strange one because I believe if we hadnt got rid we'd have still done OK, a hell of a lot better than Souness. After deciding in the summer that he was going they should have either replaced him then or stuck with him. The worst option was the one they took. Some of our starts previously under Robson were much much worse and one, was it two seasons previous?, went on much longer. Again if you've decided after 2 or 3 games that things arent going to improve and a change is needed then why afford the manager those 2 or 3 games to begin with? In the past they've allowed the manager just enough time to hang himself before sacking him. Its all to do with PR and not whats best for NUFC. 138870[/snapback] This is what I think also. It's not all Shepherd though. I wonder what power that odious turd Douglas Hall has at the club sometimes, I still feel bitter about his "we would have been relegated under Robson, nothing was more certain" comment. With crettins like that in charge of our club, what hope do we have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckypierre 0 Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 (edited) This is what I think also. It's not all Shepherd though. I wonder what power that odious turd Douglas Hall has at the club sometimes, I still feel bitter about his "we would have been relegated under Robson, nothing was more certain" comment. With crettins like that in charge of our club, what hope do we have? 138871[/snapback] Definitely and although I might occasionally knock Shepherd at least he actually has a role at the club whether he's overpaid or not. I might bring up SJH but Im under no illusions as to why he got involved with NUFC. It wasnt as some benevolent benefactor who was going to see his boyhood team become the biggest in the world. It was all to do with money. Thats fine too as long as it doesnt get in the way of the football club. I always have this feeling that with Dougie and Shepherd they're a little too greedy, that they take the piss a bit with how much they actually take out and some of the decisions they make definitely get in the way. Edited May 20, 2006 by luckypierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17744 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 This is what I think also. It's not all Shepherd though. I wonder what power that odious turd Douglas Hall has at the club sometimes, I still feel bitter about his "we would have been relegated under Robson, nothing was more certain" comment. With crettins like that in charge of our club, what hope do we have? 138871[/snapback] Definitely and although I might occasionally knock Shepherd at least he actually has a role at the club whether he's overpaid or not. I might bring up SJH but Im under no illusions as to why he got involved with NUFC. It wasnt as some benevolent benefactor who was going to see his boyhood team become the biggest in the world. It was all to do with money. Thats fine too as long as it doesnt get in the way of the football club. I always have this feeling that with Dougie and Shepherd they're a little too greedy, that they take the piss a bit with how much they actually take out and some of the decisions they make definitely get in the way. 138872[/snapback] With John Hall you feel you are getting the benefit of a self-made entrepreneur, who had the skills to take Newcastle forward, even if he was making a bit for himself. No problems with that. But of course, it's completely different with Douglas Hall, who is a complete prick born with a silver spoon in his mouth. He seems to have no personal or business qualities whatsoever, and is at the club purely for nepotistic reasons. Worse, he isn't even a fan of the game. For all we talk about Shepherd, I am actually unsure how he made his money, and whether he made the company Shepherd offshore or his father did? If he is self-made, then you have to say fair enough, I guess, but that still doesn't give him the right to take the dividends etc he does.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckypierre 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 For all we talk about Shepherd, I am actually unsure how he made his money, and whether he made the company Shepherd offshore or his father did? If he is self-made, then you have to say fair enough, I guess, but that still doesn't give him the right to take the dividends etc he does.... 138944[/snapback] I could be wrong but I think its his brother Bruce who is considered to be the guy behind their success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 which only goes to show not everything is as simple as being black and white. I can see your point that they may have had reservations in the summer, but cast your mind back. Did YOU ? I did about Gullit but was hopeful about Dalglish. After the season started in both those cases, the penny dropped with me they had to go, but in Bobby Robsons case I never felt like that at all, you could tell that it was a false position, pretty much the same as his first 2 years as manager, which were pretty mediocre with money tight too but he knew what he was doing and you could sense that. I should have said "shit start and seeing it wasn't going to improve". 138851[/snapback] course its not easy but like I said its the reason the guys at the top get paid the big bucks. I didnt think Dalglsih was the right man at that time but I also dont think he deserved to be sacked, if that makes sense. The reasons for Dalglishs dismissal werent born out of those two games though. No one with any sense makes a decision based on two games. If the doubts at board level were serious and strong enough to force his departure after two draws then they should have got rid in the summer. It would have been the best thing for the club. If they'd have kept him theres nothing to suggest out of those two games that we'd have done worse than the previous season. We werent in a desperate situation like you could say with Gullit and Souness. Robsons is a strange one because I believe if we hadnt got rid we'd have still done OK, a hell of a lot better than Souness. After deciding in the summer that he was going they should have either replaced him then or stuck with him. The worst option was the one they took. Some of our starts previously under Robson were much much worse and one, was it two seasons previous?, went on much longer. Again if you've decided after 2 or 3 games that things arent going to improve and a change is needed then why afford the manager those 2 or 3 games to begin with? In the past they've allowed the manager just enough time to hang himself before sacking him. Its all to do with PR and not whats best for NUFC. 138870[/snapback] I tend to think also if one of the 3 managers - Dalglish, Gullit, Souness - could have had more time, it would have been Dalglish. But, at the time, I was glad he went. Without knowing who I wanted to replace him either. I also wish Robson had stayed longer, obviously, because of his replacement and the sale of Bellamy. They are just opinions, we all have them don't we. Just because the guy is paid big bucks means he is going to get everything right, that is impossible. I think I know more about football than pretty much most football chairman, and so do you probably know more as well, but I sure as hell don't know too much about how to run the football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 (edited) I tend to think also if one of the 3 managers - Dalglish, Gullit, Souness - could have had more time, it would have been Dalglish. But, at the time, I was glad he went. Without knowing who I wanted to replace him either. I also wish Robson had stayed longer, obviously, because of his replacement and the sale of Bellamy. They are just opinions, we all have them don't we. Just because the guy is paid big bucks means he is going to get everything right, that is impossible. I think I know more about football than pretty much most football chairman, and so do you probably know more as well, but I sure as hell don't know too much about how to run the football club. 138976[/snapback] With the benefit of hindsight, there are various decisions I wish had/hadn't been taken - that's simply the nature of things. With Robson, I felt he'd taken the club as far as he could (things may have turned out differently if he hadn't honoured his commitments at Barcelona earlier). Needless to say, I would have wanted him to stay had I known Souness would have been his replacement. I was horrified at the prospect of Venables taking over, but at least he probably would have settled for a short term contract and we wouldn't have suffered as we did under Souness. The appointment of Souness was the wrong one and fans knew that at the time. However, the appointments of Dalglish, Gullit and Robson were all welcomed. When Dalglish was appointed, I distinctly remember people talking about he was the final piece of the jigsaw. He would shore up the defence and would succeed where Keegan had failed. It just goes to show how wrong you can be. Ideally, I would like the chairman to have an idea of replacements before sacking, but it isn't always possible - especially when you have appointed someone like Dalgish who you assume will do a decent job, then doesn't. Even if you have replacements in mind, there are no guarantee they'll take the job. I expect the club to have a long term plan, but at the same time it is never possible to plan down to the smallest detail as events beyond your control can take over. 139017[/snapback] Pretty much how I see it too. The appointment of Dalglish, at the time, was greeted with the same gusto as someone like Wenger would be now, because he had such a fantastic CV. So for people to say it wasn't, well some people may have had doubts but to say he wasn't anything other than a top level appointment that the vast majority had huge expectations for, is just a lie. A lot of things in football are beyond planning as you say Bridget, you simply just can't tell what is around the corner. For instance, although all of us wanted Souness out, [well most of us Gemmill ] what would have happened if he hadn't dropped Robert and we had won the UEFA Cup. He'd probably still be here, and the most unpopular manager we've had in decades would have gave us what we all want. And the thought of him holding up a trophy...I wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry !!!! Edited May 21, 2006 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34413 Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Roeder looking to install ProZone at NUFC, I see. Very positive move - Newcastle enter the 21st century with coaching techniques. It's something that Allardyce looks to use to good effect at Bolton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Roeder looking to install ProZone at NUFC, I see. Very positive move - Newcastle enter the 21st century with coaching techniques. It's something that Allardyce looks to use to good effect at Bolton. 140113[/snapback] Hoooooof! Hooooof! Did anyone see Allardyce's England team in the paper on Sunday? He wouldn't play Owen or Rooney and would play Crouch up front by himself. On second thoughts, McClaren isn't such a bad option after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34413 Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Roeder looking to install ProZone at NUFC, I see. Very positive move - Newcastle enter the 21st century with coaching techniques. It's something that Allardyce looks to use to good effect at Bolton. 140113[/snapback] Hoooooof! Hooooof! Did anyone see Allardyce's England team in the paper on Sunday? He wouldn't play Owen or Rooney and would play Crouch up front by himself. On second thoughts, McClaren isn't such a bad option after all. 140115[/snapback] There was something in the Mag about how Allardyce had picked Amdy Faye in his team of the week in some paper, saying that he'd been instrumental in our change of fortunes. Not sure if it was a pisstake as I was skim-reading, but Jesus definitely wept in case it was true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Roeder looking to install ProZone at NUFC, I see. Very positive move - Newcastle enter the 21st century with coaching techniques. It's something that Allardyce looks to use to good effect at Bolton. 140113[/snapback] You've always slated Allardyce and the style of play though when he's been linked with the Toon job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34413 Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Roeder looking to install ProZone at NUFC, I see. Very positive move - Newcastle enter the 21st century with coaching techniques. It's something that Allardyce looks to use to good effect at Bolton. 140113[/snapback] You've always slated Allardyce and the style of play though when he's been linked with the Toon job 140117[/snapback] Aye, but I saw an interview with Gary Speed re ProZone. It basically tracks everything on the pitch, distance you run, passes you complete, everything. Anyway, Speed was saying Allardyce would point out that he wasn't doing something/was doing something wrong, and if Speed challenged him on it, he would use ProZone to prove it to him, and to work on a remedy. Sounds like a pretty effective tool. So there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Who else uses it, out of interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Roeder looking to install ProZone at NUFC, I see. Very positive move - Newcastle enter the 21st century with coaching techniques. It's something that Allardyce looks to use to good effect at Bolton. 140113[/snapback] You've always slated Allardyce and the style of play though when he's been linked with the Toon job 140117[/snapback] Aye, but I saw an interview with Gary Speed re ProZone. It basically tracks everything on the pitch, distance you run, passes you complete, everything. Anyway, Speed was saying Allardyce would point out that he wasn't doing something/was doing something wrong, and if Speed challenged him on it, he would use ProZone to prove it to him, and to work on a remedy. Sounds like a pretty effective tool. So there! 140121[/snapback] 'Gary, just fucking hoof it.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8870 Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 According to TaylorIQ27 over there Robson wanted to install, but Fat Fred refused. btw - http://www.pzfootball.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 According to TaylorIQ27 over there Robson wanted to install, but Fat Fred refused. btw - http://www.pzfootball.co.uk/ 140127[/snapback] His estate agent told him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8870 Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 According to TaylorIQ27 over there Robson wanted to install, but Fat Fred refused. btw - http://www.pzfootball.co.uk/ 140127[/snapback] His estate agent told him. 140128[/snapback] Nah, apperently Mancini read it in SBR's biography and told him on MSN... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke 1 Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Who else uses it, out of interest? 140123[/snapback] According to their website Arsenal, Man Utd, Everton and Southampton use it. McClaren is a big fan as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Who else uses it, out of interest? 140123[/snapback] According to their website Arsenal, Man Utd, Everton and Southampton use it. McClaren is a big fan as well. 140130[/snapback] Well, I'm all for a more scientific approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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