Jump to content
Guest alex

Massacre by US Troops in Iraq

Recommended Posts

 

Just thought I'd add that I thought GF's response there was particularly cretinous.

143096[/snapback]

Basically advocating double standards, let's let these fellas off while were at it. They were probably having a bad day :rolleyes:

143098[/snapback]

 

It is double standards and blatent racism to an extent. Clearly the average American does not think the life of an Iraqi and an American are equal, and while that prejudice exists, there can be no peace.

 

Mind, I'm obviously a sandalista. :lol:

Edited by Renton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They were probably having a bad day  :lol:

143098[/snapback]

 

"Lawyers who have talked to the Marines emphasise the extreme pressure that they were facing that day. The insurgents had mounted a wave of attacks, and the town was one of the most dangerous in Iraq for US troops. Three months earlier insurgents had ambushed and killed six Marine snipers, then released a video showing the mutilated body of a dead servicemen. Later 14 Marines were killed by a bomb near the town."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest alex
They were probably having a bad day  :lol:

143098[/snapback]

 

"Lawyers who have talked to the Marines emphasise the extreme pressure that they were facing that day. The insurgents had mounted a wave of attacks, and the town was one of the most dangerous in Iraq for US troops. Three months earlier insurgents had ambushed and killed six Marine snipers, then released a video showing the mutilated body of a dead servicemen. Later 14 Marines were killed by a bomb near the town."

143105[/snapback]

So they killed a two year old in cold blood.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They were probably having a bad day  :lol:

143098[/snapback]

 

"Lawyers who have talked to the Marines emphasise the extreme pressure that they were facing that day. The insurgents had mounted a wave of attacks, and the town was one of the most dangerous in Iraq for US troops. Three months earlier insurgents had ambushed and killed six Marine snipers, then released a video showing the mutilated body of a dead servicemen. Later 14 Marines were killed by a bomb near the town."

143105[/snapback]

So they killed a two year old in cold blood.

143118[/snapback]

 

As I said in the other thread, I don't condone it. It's horrific. But I wouldn't be flippant about the pressure they're under until I'd gone through it without cracking.

 

It does always seem to be the gung-ho Americans that get themselves in this kind of mess, but I think it says more about the commanding officers than the soldiers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest alex

The flippancy of the remark was borne out of my outrage at what has happened and the apparent justification for it/advocacy of double standards from GF rather than thinking it's not difficult over there for the armed forces.

Of course they're under enormous pressure and they have an awful job to do. Also, a roadside bomb had just killed one of their colleagues. Nothing however comes close to justifying what they did and I feel they must take the ultimate responsibility rather than their commanding officers. On a wider note, the politicians who put the troops into this impossible situation are the ones who really should take the blame for what is happening over there in general.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't argue with that.

 

It just concerned me that the BBC article you linked to doesn't mention any commanding officers. They are the ones who cultivate the barbaric approach ("Killing in the name" should not be allowed to get pumped through a troops headphones).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest alex
I wouldn't argue with that.

 

It just concerned me that the BBC article you linked to doesn't mention any commanding officers.  They are the ones who cultivate the barbaric approach ("Killing in the name" should not be allowed to get pumped through a troops headphones).

143134[/snapback]

Aye fair point like, I suppose it's partly the culture that's to blame. It's also worth mentioning that part of the reason this came out is that some of the US Marines involved in the 'clean up' operation were terribly traumatised by what they saw. They are probably more disgusted by what happened than anyone. Ironically, the perpetrators of this have made their (soon to be ex-) colleagues jobs even harder than they were before.

Edited by alex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They were probably having a bad day  :lol:

143098[/snapback]

 

"Lawyers who have talked to the Marines emphasise the extreme pressure that they were facing that day. The insurgents had mounted a wave of attacks, and the town was one of the most dangerous in Iraq for US troops. Three months earlier insurgents had ambushed and killed six Marine snipers, then released a video showing the mutilated body of a dead servicemen. Later 14 Marines were killed by a bomb near the town."

143105[/snapback]

So they killed a two year old in cold blood.

143118[/snapback]

 

Well the way I read that argument is to specifically say that it was not 'cold blood.' Not agreeing or disagreeing with either side, just pointing out what the argument is saying.

 

Clearly the average American does not think the life of an Iraqi and an American are equal, and while that prejudice exists, there can be no peace.

 

And Britons do not think that the life of an Indian and an Englishman or an Iraqi and an Englishman are equal. And a Russian doesn't think the life of a Russian and a Mongol's lives are equal--you can say that about anyone.

 

 

 

 

I pretty welll agree with you guys, but your arguments are a load of shite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest alex
They were probably having a bad day  :rolleyes:

143098[/snapback]

 

"Lawyers who have talked to the Marines emphasise the extreme pressure that they were facing that day. The insurgents had mounted a wave of attacks, and the town was one of the most dangerous in Iraq for US troops. Three months earlier insurgents had ambushed and killed six Marine snipers, then released a video showing the mutilated body of a dead servicemen. Later 14 Marines were killed by a bomb near the town."

143105[/snapback]

So they killed a two year old in cold blood.

143118[/snapback]

 

Well the way I read that argument is to specifically say that it was not 'cold blood.' Not agreeing or disagreeing with either side, just pointing out what the argument is saying.

 

Clearly the average American does not think the life of an Iraqi and an American are equal, and while that prejudice exists, there can be no peace.

 

And Britons do not think that the life of an Indian and an Englishman or an Iraqi and an Englishman are equal. And a Russian doesn't think the life of a Russian and a Mongol's lives are equal--you can say that about anyone.

 

 

 

I pretty welll agree with you guys, but your arguments are a load of shite.

143234[/snapback]

Ok then it wasn't in 'cold blood' perhaps. I'd love to hear your arguments although I expect you to stick to what you're good at and just pour scorn on those of others. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They were probably having a bad day  :lol:

143098[/snapback]

 

"Lawyers who have talked to the Marines emphasise the extreme pressure that they were facing that day. The insurgents had mounted a wave of attacks, and the town was one of the most dangerous in Iraq for US troops. Three months earlier insurgents had ambushed and killed six Marine snipers, then released a video showing the mutilated body of a dead servicemen. Later 14 Marines were killed by a bomb near the town."

143105[/snapback]

So they killed a two year old in cold blood.

143118[/snapback]

 

Well the way I read that argument is to specifically say that it was not 'cold blood.' Not agreeing or disagreeing with either side, just pointing out what the argument is saying.

 

Clearly the average American does not think the life of an Iraqi and an American are equal, and while that prejudice exists, there can be no peace.

 

And Britons do not think that the life of an Indian and an Englishman or an Iraqi and an Englishman are equal. And a Russian doesn't think the life of a Russian and a Mongol's lives are equal--you can say that about anyone.

 

 

 

 

I pretty welll agree with you guys, but your arguments are a load of shite.

143234[/snapback]

 

Fair point Zathras, but I certainly get the feeling there is more prejudice and ignorance shown to the problem in Iraq than there is in Europe. And American soldiers have a well known reputation of being trigger happy.

 

Of course it's wrong to generalise about these things I guess but the whole situation is pissing me off. Not only is the massacre described abhorrent for humanitarian reasons, it is also completely counterproductive to the peace efforts. This is what I fear some Americans (and Brits) fail to comprehend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok then it wasn't in 'cold blood' perhaps. I'd love to hear your arguments although I expect you to stick to what you're good at and just pour scorn on those of others.  :rolleyes:

143241[/snapback]

 

Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fair point Zathras, but I certainly get the feeling there is more prejudice and ignorance shown to the problem in Iraq than there is in Europe. And American soldiers have a well known reputation of being trigger happy.

 

Of course it's wrong to generalise about these things I guess but the whole situation is pissing me off. Not only is the massacre described abhorrent for humanitarian reasons, it is also completely counterproductive to the peace efforts. This is what I fear some Americans (and Brits) fail to comprehend.

143248[/snapback]

 

 

I'd say most Americans are well aware of how much of an impact this sort of thing has. The approval ratings of the current administration are lower than they've ever been, largely due to this and similar scandals. The fact that people are continuously falling on their swords to spare the higher-ups is not lost on the average American.

 

The fact that the White House can't even hold on to a press secretary tends to speak volumes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest alex
Ok then it wasn't in 'cold blood' perhaps. I'd love to hear your arguments although I expect you to stick to what you're good at and just pour scorn on those of others.  :rolleyes:

143241[/snapback]

 

Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle. :lol:

143250[/snapback]

As I suspected, nothing to contribute. If you're saying I don't give my point of view on here Zath, I think you're talking shite tbh. I can remember when you were a good poster. Sadly that was quite a long time ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can anyone be surprised when an occupying force, in a country where the occupied are a different skin colour, religion and culture receive no empathy from the military?

Most infantry are not picked on their social or empathic skills, they are there to kill, oppress or protect the interests of their political masters.

It will justified in light of the july bombings here and the 9/11 attack in the US. A few token measures will be taken to preserve the appearance of fairness by the US but the only real change in policy will probably be stricter controls on the media so that people don't find out about what else they have done.

It's horrific but utterly predicatable as will be the response of blood thirsty bigots who say that these things can be 'justifiable' when committed by the west on anybody else but are acts of terrorism and extreme evil when committed by opposition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok then it wasn't in 'cold blood' perhaps. I'd love to hear your arguments although I expect you to stick to what you're good at and just pour scorn on those of others.  :rolleyes:

143241[/snapback]

 

Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle. :lol:

143250[/snapback]

As I suspected, nothing to contribute. If you're saying I don't give my point of view on here Zath, I think you're talking shite tbh. I can remember when you were a good poster. Sadly that was quite a long time ago.

143257[/snapback]

 

I said that I'd agreed with you guys, just that the arguments put forward (id est that Americans value American lives more and that it was a cold blooded reaction) were crap. Renton's argument in his last post is pretty much where I stand--it's pointless, counterproductive and most importantly, completely and totally wrong.

 

As for not being a 'good poster' any more, it seems that the major requirement for that is constantly being one here and frankly I no longer have the time to just sit and post all day. :lol: Student days are over; now I work for the government.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest alex
Ok then it wasn't in 'cold blood' perhaps. I'd love to hear your arguments although I expect you to stick to what you're good at and just pour scorn on those of others.  :lol:

143241[/snapback]

 

Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle. :lol:

143250[/snapback]

As I suspected, nothing to contribute. If you're saying I don't give my point of view on here Zath, I think you're talking shite tbh. I can remember when you were a good poster. Sadly that was quite a long time ago.

143257[/snapback]

 

I said that I'd agreed with you guys, just that the arguments put forward (id est that Americans value American lives more and that it was a cold blooded reaction) were crap. Renton's argument in his last post is pretty much where I stand--it's pointless, counterproductive and most importantly, completely and totally wrong.

 

As for not being a 'good poster' any more, it seems that the major requirement for that is constantly being one here and frankly I no longer have the time to just sit and post all day. :rolleyes: Student days are over; now I work for the government.

143266[/snapback]

Scared your being monitored? :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can anyone be surprised when an occupying force, in a country where the occupied are a different skin colour, religion and culture receive no empathy from the military?

Most infantry are not picked on their social or empathic skills, they are there to kill, oppress or protect the interests of their political masters.

It will justified in light of the july bombings here and the 9/11 attack in the US. A few token measures will be taken to preserve the appearance of fairness by the US but the only real change in policy will probably be stricter controls on the media so that people don't find out about what else they have done.

It's horrific but utterly predicatable as will be the response of blood thirsty bigots who say that these things can be 'justifiable' when committed by the west on anybody else but are acts of terrorism and extreme evil when committed by opposition.

143264[/snapback]

 

The strict media controls that the US implemented in Gulf War I resulted in 'bad' media coverage. That's why they came up with that 'imbed' program; by placing the journalists on the front line with the soldiers, they got to feel it first hand, and, in theory, connect more with the soldiers themselves. Media control is a bit late; public opinion has moved too far against the war for that to be an effective measure; it would result in bad press about the controls.

 

The further issue is that this was a group of Marines, who are allegedly more highly trained than the average infantry unit. They're supposed to display a higher level of discipline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


Recent tweets

Toontastic Facebook

Donate to Toontastic

Keeping the lights on since... well ages ago
TT-Staff


×