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Venables and Thompson


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Theres an article on snopes regarding a rumour that 4weeks ago an 8 year old girl was raped and murdered in australia and that the man arrested for the murder was either venables or thompson who had been relocated over there! They are yet to agree whether its true or false.

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The article is here - the relevant bit is the bit at the bottom, it clearly is a false story:

 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/bulger.asp

 

Perhaps you'd like to explain why you felt the need to perpetuate these lies, and then use the defence of "I was only reporting what others have said"? The trouble with stories like this is they often lead to false identifications, and before you know it some innocent bloke is getting lynched by a bunch of ignorant scumbags.

 

As I've said J69, I find your view points a bit out of kilter with my experience of most people in the NHS - including A&E and mental health. But like you say, I don't know you, and it is possible to seperate your personal viewpoints from your professional work I suppose. What happened to teaching anyway?

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I didnt 'perpetuate' anything :D This whole topic concerns an article purporting that the bulger killers are now reformed. The article on snopes is directly related to that and this thread. And either way its hardly going to lead to an innocent man being lynched. one, because no-one know where he lives, and two, because the man in question has already killed a toddler in cold blood. The whole point of snopes is to tell people whether rumours are true or false!

 

As for teaching, I did a weeks pre-course experience and was bored shitless! My NHS Trust at the minute is cutting jobs and has banned all overtime so its a pretty crap place to work at the minute.

 

Im currently half way through the police application process :blush: im sure you will all be chuffed to hear. So when a job came up nursing young offenders I thought it would be interesting for 12months and would also help with my application so i took it.

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I reckon you might make a good policeman, and I don't mean that in a derogatory way.

 

You miss my point about the Snopes story - I wasn't talking specifically about that, but the dangers of spreading lies in general. If you had bothered to read the article, you would have known it had no substance to it, yet you still cited it, no doubt in the hope that by throwing mud some would stick. There are plenty of idiots bent on malice just looking for an excuse to exercise it, and this type of story gives them it. Maybe when you are a policeman you will see what I mean and not be so quick to spread idle gossip.

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There's not a country in the world that has the death penalty that I'd want to live in.

 

I agree that crime is a problem, and that lack of respect is the root cause of much crime, and I honestly don't know what the solution is. But the really serious crimes such as murder are still incredibly low, especially in Europe where the death penalty has long sinced been abandoned. I am not aware it is increasing either. So, even if it is morally acceptable (which I emphatically think it is not), is there any need for the death penalty? I don't think there is.

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Singapore?

 

I take the fact that you don't feel safe on the metro very seriously.

 

If we have no moral right to take a life, what right do we have to imprison one?

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In singapore you can be arrested for owning chewing gum or forgetting to flush the toilet - I'd rather not live in such a totalitarian soceity thanks.

 

The T&W metro is blighted by every decent person who uses it by low level crime and unsociable behaviour. So far no-one has been murdered, but there has been some very serious assaults and it is a matter of time imo. Clearly, something needs to be done, but I'm fairly sure capital punishment will not help matters unless you get really drastic! Which is tempting.....

 

As for the last point - well that is one for the philosophers, not me, as I am pragmatic enough to see a huge difference. Soceity has a right to protect itself against wrong-doers, that is what the law is for. Removing people from soceity (usually temporarily) is to my knowledge the only way of doing this. But again, I fail to see where the death penalty is needed or desirable.

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Oh and as for previous comments about killing them. I dont think id ever condone killing someone as a punishment , even though id like to. But to release them after 8 years is ridiculous. Fraudsters get longer than that on many occasions. And they dont pose a threat to public safety in the slightest!

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In singapore you can be arrested for owning chewing gum or forgetting to flush the toilet - I'd rather not live in such a totalitarian soceity thanks.

 

The T&W metro is blighted by every decent person who uses it by low level crime and unsociable behaviour. So far no-one has been murdered, but there has been some very serious assaults and it is a matter of time imo. Clearly, something needs to be done, but I'm fairly sure capital punishment will not help matters unless you get really drastic! Which is tempting.....

 

As for the last point - well that is one for the philosophers, not me, as I am pragmatic enough to see a huge difference. Soceity has a right to protect itself against wrong-doers, that is what the law is for. Removing people from soceity (usually temporarily) is to my knowledge the only way of doing this. But again, I fail to see where the death penalty is needed or desirable.

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I'm not waiting for a murder on the metro, I'm saying that it's equally serious that probably the majority of people in the World today would feel unsafe walking from one end of their own city to the other. I don't know what the obsession is purely with death, quality of life has to be equally important, surely?

 

I don't know how you can say that we have no moral right to kill, and then dismiss the notion that we have no moral right to imprison someone as one for the philosophers. I would take imprisoning someone for the rest of their natural lives as seriously as taking their life, I presume if someone was basically going to kill anyone they met you would agree with lifelong incarceration?

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'I reckon you might make a good policeman, and I don't mean that in a derogatory way.'

 

You miss my point about the Snopes story - I wasn't talking specifically about that, but the dangers of spreading lies in general. If you had bothered to read the article, you would have known it had no substance to it, yet you still cited it, no doubt in the hope that by throwing mud some would stick. There are plenty of idiots bent on malice just looking for an excuse to exercise it, and this type of story gives them it. Maybe when you are a policeman you will see what I mean and not be so quick to spread idle gossip.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks. I hope so. Ive already worked with a broad cross-section of the public (very broad!) and im hoping il not have my head turned like some of the policemen ive met before. and maybe it will change my views and perceptions on certain things. I suppose time will tell.

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The death penalty is the easy way out.

 

When i was ten i though the worst thing i could do was smash a window or steal, couldnt imagine the bringing up those lads would have had.

 

I dunno how u could judge them to death penalty? They were so young, i think prison would do it, for life..

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I'm hoping that's not directed at me.

166452[/snapback]

 

 

What you on about?

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The death penalty is the easy way out.

 

When i was ten i though the worst thing i could do was smash a window or steal, couldnt imagine the bringing up those lads would have had.

 

I dunno how u could judge them to death penalty? They were so young, i think prison would do it, for life..

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I'm hoping that's not directed at me.

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What you on about?

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It's difficult to make that any clearer...

 

You said (roughly translated) "I don't know how you could judge them to death penalty", was the "you" in that sentence, me?

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The death penalty is the easy way out.

 

When i was ten i though the worst thing i could do was smash a window or steal, couldnt imagine the bringing up those lads would have had.

 

I dunno how u could judge them to death penalty? They were so young, i think prison would do it, for life..

166449[/snapback]

 

I'm hoping that's not directed at me.

166452[/snapback]

 

 

What you on about?

166485[/snapback]

 

It's difficult to make that any clearer...

 

You said (roughly translated) "I don't know how you could judge them to death penalty", was the "you" in that sentence, me?

166487[/snapback]

 

 

err no...

 

 

Sorry about that if you though it was.

 

I though you meant that i wanted you to have the death penalty or something mad

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err no...

 

 

Sorry about that if you though it was.

 

I though you meant that i wanted you to have the death penalty or something mad

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:D No, I was on about the death penalty above that, and had just clarified twice I wasn't referring to the two lads. If it's any consolation I find you equally difficult to understand. :blush:

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err no...

 

 

Sorry about that if you though it was.

 

I though you meant that i wanted you to have the death penalty or something mad

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:D No, I was on about the death penalty above that, and had just clarified twice I wasn't referring to the two lads. If it's any consolation I find you equally difficult to understand. :blush:

166490[/snapback]

 

 

:razz:

 

Lets let it lie :D

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In singapore you can be arrested for owning chewing gum or forgetting to flush the toilet - I'd rather not live in such a totalitarian soceity thanks.

 

The T&W metro is blighted by every decent person who uses it by low level crime and unsociable behaviour. So far no-one has been murdered, but there has been some very serious assaults and it is a matter of time imo. Clearly, something needs to be done, but I'm fairly sure capital punishment will not help matters unless you get really drastic! Which is tempting.....

 

As for the last point - well that is one for the philosophers, not me, as I am pragmatic enough to see a huge difference. Soceity has a right to protect itself against wrong-doers, that is what the law is for. Removing people from soceity (usually temporarily) is to my knowledge the only way of doing this. But again, I fail to see where the death penalty is needed or desirable.

166469[/snapback]

 

I'm not waiting for a murder on the metro, I'm saying that it's equally serious that probably the majority of people in the World today would feel unsafe walking from one end of their own city to the other. I don't know what the obsession is purely with death, quality of life has to be equally important, surely?

 

I don't know how you can say that we have no moral right to kill, and then dismiss the notion that we have no moral right to imprison someone as one for the philosophers. I would take imprisoning someone for the rest of their natural lives as seriously as taking their life, I presume if someone was basically going to kill anyone they met you would agree with lifelong incarceration?

166475[/snapback]

 

I don't think I understand your first paragraph - are you suggesting the death penalty for offences of a less serious nature than murder? How do we improve quality of life, by living a society where minor crimes are met with death? Clearly I have either got the wrong end of the stick here or you are barking!

 

There's a finality and irreversibility about execution that makes it unacceptable imo. This has been increasingly the conclusion that most western soceities have come up with, with the exception of the US, which is a country which has actually been going backwards now for some years. And it's one I'm happy with. As for your example of the psychotic killer, yes, imprison him for life, to protect the public, amongst other things. Where's the need to kill him though? What does it serve?

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Oh and as for previous comments about killing them. I dont think id ever condone killing someone as a punishment , even though id like to. But to release them after 8 years is ridiculous. Fraudsters get longer than that on many occasions. And they dont pose a threat to public safety in the slightest!

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I find it strange you don't think fraudsters pose a threat to the public. They can completely destroy lives too.

 

Experts believe Thompson and Venables do not now pose a threat, which is why they have been freed. Not being a child psychologist, I prefer to trust their judgement.

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Oh and as for previous comments about killing them. I dont think id ever condone killing someone as a punishment , even though id like to. But to release them after 8 years is ridiculous. Fraudsters get longer than that on many occasions. And they dont pose a threat to public safety in the slightest!

166471[/snapback]

 

I find it strange you don't think fraudsters pose a threat to the public. They can completely destroy lives too.

 

Experts believe Thompson and Venables do not now pose a threat, which is why they have been freed. Not being a child psychologist, I prefer to trust their judgement.

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Not being a football manager would you trust the Judgement of our last manager? :D

Edited by khay
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I don't think I understand your first paragraph - are you suggesting the death penalty for offences of a less serious nature than murder? How do we improve quality of life, by living a society where minor crimes are met with death? Clearly I have either got the wrong end of the stick here or you are barking!

 

There's a finality and irreversibility about execution that makes it unacceptable imo. This has been increasingly the conclusion that most western soceities have come up with, with the exception of the US, which is a country which has actually been going backwards now for some years. And it's one I'm happy with. As for your example of the psychotic killer, yes, imprison him for life, to protect the public, amongst other things. Where's the need to kill him though? What does it serve?

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From a purely pragmatic point of view, what purpose does keeping them alive (or half alive really) serve? But I think I'll probably buy that.

 

I would deal with any attacks with a deadly weapon (knife, gun, cricket bat) as harshly as murder, to be honest, possibly even posession (never liked cricket anyway :D). You may think that's barking but I'm still stunned that emotionally developed people see justice as a means of punishment, as opposed to a tool which protects and improves society.

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Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

Singapore - I know it REALLY well

 

and yes they have a draconian approach to the law - fines for everything (pissing in public, throwing litter, no Metro ticket, religion...............) and serious punishments (like DEATH) for carrying guns, drugs, and murder and have had for 40 years

 

But it doesn't seem to stop people from doing any of the above TBH

 

What it does do is to make the place feel like a very pleasant prison

 

Even LKY has said that people just play everything safe in S'pore

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Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

Singapore - I know it REALLY well

 

and yes they have a draconian approach to the law - fines for everything (pissing in public, throwing litter, no Metro ticket, religion...............)  and serious punishments (like DEATH)  for carrying guns, drugs, and murder and have had for 40 years

 

But it doesn't seem to stop people from doing any of the above TBH

 

What it does do is to make the place feel like a very pleasant prison

 

Even LKY has said that people just play everything safe in S'pore

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They repealed the chewing gum law, correct? :D

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They repealed the chewing gum law, correct?  :D

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They tried everything but they couldn't get it out tbh.

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Ice Cubes work, supposedly.

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I don't think I understand your first paragraph - are you suggesting the death penalty for offences of a less serious nature than murder? How do we improve quality of life, by living a society where minor crimes are met with death? Clearly I have either got the wrong end of the stick here or you are barking!

 

There's a finality and irreversibility about execution that makes it unacceptable imo. This has been increasingly the conclusion that most western soceities have come up with, with the exception of the US, which is a country which has actually been going backwards now for some years. And it's one I'm happy with. As for your example of the psychotic killer, yes, imprison him for life, to protect the public, amongst other things. Where's the need to kill him though? What does it serve?

166497[/snapback]

 

From a purely pragmatic point of view, what purpose does keeping them alive (or half alive really) serve? But I think I'll probably buy that.

 

I would deal with any attacks with a deadly weapon (knife, gun, cricket bat) as harshly as murder, to be honest, possibly even posession (never liked cricket anyway :D). You may think that's barking but I'm still stunned that emotionally developed people see justice as a means of punishment, as opposed to a tool which protects and improves society.

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There would be a very thin line between your attempts to create a better society and an absolute nightmare scenario reminiscent of an Huxley or Orwell book. And yes, for me, crimes must be graded according to severity and premeditated murder stands alone as the most heinous the average person can commit, only surpassed by genocide.

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There would be a very thin line between your attempts to create a better society and an absolute nightmare scenario reminiscent of an Huxley or Orwell book. And yes, for me, crimes must be graded according to severity and premeditated murder stands alone as the most heinous the average person can commit, only surpassed by genocide.

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Isn't there always? Huxley's "dystopia" might actually be the best we can hope for, to be honest. Obviously the dangers here are more Orwellian. I was making a distinction between attempted murder and murder, not 1st or 2nd degree, society seems to have more of a problem with random acts of violence than premeditated murder, anyway.

 

On a complete separate note "an Huxley", how are you pronouncing that?

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There would be a very thin line between your attempts to create a better society and an absolute nightmare scenario reminiscent of an Huxley or Orwell book. And yes, for me, crimes must be graded according to severity and premeditated murder stands alone as the most heinous the average person can commit, only surpassed by genocide.

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Isn't there always? Huxley's "dystopia" might actually be the best we can hope for, to be honest. Obviously the dangers here are more Orwellian. I was making a distinction between attempted murder and murder, not 1st or 2nd degree, society seems to have more of a problem with random acts of violence than premeditated murder, anyway.

 

On a complete separate note "an Huxley", how are you pronouncing that?

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It was a typo! I meant a Huxley. Not an 'uxley - that would be incorrect. The only time you should drop the H is when saying the letter H (i.e. aitch). An Hotel or an hospital is french and plain wrong!

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It was a typo! I meant a Huxley. Not an 'uxley - that would be incorrect. The only time you should drop the H is when saying the letter H (i.e. aitch). An Hotel or an hospital is french and plain wrong!

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The English language owes a little bit more than that to its two favourite countries, though for my money English is the greatest language I'm familiar with. At least one of France's greatest minds agrees, I've never asked a French man how he feels about that, I must put it on my list of things to do. :D

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Is 'an historic' correct or is it rather archaic? I wouldn't say it but I'm never too sure about whether or not to write it...

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I'd say do what you like and thumb your nose at the likes of Renton tbh.

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