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Failure to appoint a quality manager is the issue.

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There is a well respected school of thought that a big name manager breeds confidence in prospective transfer targets. How would Hiddink have fared I wonder in getting in 5 or 6 quality players we need (especially 2 defenders). Instead we hear talk of Roeder desperately flying around Europe watching games...Well Hiddink with the benefit of internaltional experience and in-depth knowledge of the Dutch game would have (after a couple of clicks on his database) signed 2 solid Dutch defenders...names like Heitinga, Vlaar, Mathissijen etc come to mind.

 

I believe the core of the issue is that prospective targets see us as a problem club now with a no mark manager (who hasn't even got his badges ffs!!). So we end up paying over the odds in fees and wages to cajole them in. Martins for £10m!! Ridiculous..we could have had Anelka for £7 or Babel for about the same or even less.

 

The buck has to stop with Roeder he has had about 4 months no less to get this window right and set out his stall...The fact we haven't signed a single defender will come back to haunt him. I have a bad feeling as well that the strength in depth other clubs have after this window the likes of Pompey and West Ham and obvioulsy Spurs will make it a long hard season. I can't see us finishing in the top 8 never mind top 6.

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I agree completely, and have always said so - the single most important amployee at any club is the manager. Get this right and you are laughing. For me the sickening thing was that O'Neill (my first realistic choice) was available but went to Villa ffs! Watch them improve while we decline.

 

Too many people have been blinded by the fact that Roder is affable and did a good job as a caretaker, seemingly ignoring all other aspects of his managerial experience and ability. But what do we do when he inevitably fails?

 

We're doomed! :rolleyes:

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I agree - though has nowt to do with badges. Having all the badges in the world dont make you a good manager. Just means you;ve had a jaunt away doing some courses.

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I agree - though has nowt to do with badges.  Having all the badges in the world dont make you a good manager.  Just means you;ve had a jaunt away doing some courses.

190083[/snapback]

 

All part of the big pic though.

 

The other thing about appointing a good European coach is that you in one swoop double your knowledge base of players from those countries and playing styles. This has been the case with Wenger, Mourinho, Rafa and Jol. The clubs we should be competing with have the jump on us regarding sourcing talent from their home countries and bringing fresh and new outlooks.

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Although there are probably outside reasons for it, Alan Pardew is hardly the best known manager in the world yet he probably made the two best Premiership signings this summer.

 

Money speaks a lot louder than most things. Players will have seen how we struggled under Souness and that reflects on the club rather than him.

 

I don't think we paid over the odds for Martins. He's 21 and he's done well, when he's played, for Inter. They've just bought Ibrahimivic for lots of money which they needed to recoup some of, they did this by selling one of their reserve strikers. How nice would it be to have a reserve striker of Martins' quality ?

 

Roeder has an amazing track record with youngsters and I'm sure we'll be seeing that this year - mainly because we now need to play them. N'Zogbia will be PFA Young Player of the Year this season.

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Guest alex
Exactly. Whilst people slag O'Neil's management career, his personality and motivation are infectious. Players want to play for him.

190074[/snapback]

I think, in the main, the people who slagged his record were the Shepherd apologists, i.e. Leazes, HTL and the pro-Hitzfeld sheep. Along with Parky I would have loved to of seen us pursue Hiddink.

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Exactly. Whilst people slag O'Neil's management career, his personality and motivation are infectious. Players want to play for him.

190074[/snapback]

I think, in the main, the people who slagged his record were the Shepherd apologists, i.e. Leazes, HTL and the pro-Hitzfeld sheep. Along with Parky I would have loved to of seen us pursue Hiddink.

190118[/snapback]

 

My Dutch friends tell me that approached correctly (ie not how England did it) we would have got him. :rolleyes:

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Guest alex
Exactly. Whilst people slag O'Neil's management career, his personality and motivation are infectious. Players want to play for him.

190074[/snapback]

I think, in the main, the people who slagged his record were the Shepherd apologists, i.e. Leazes, HTL and the pro-Hitzfeld sheep. Along with Parky I would have loved to of seen us pursue Hiddink.

190118[/snapback]

 

My Dutch friends tell me that approached correctly (ie not how England did it) we would have got him. :(

190124[/snapback]

Is this another MI6 contact? :rolleyes: The annoying thing is the likes of Hiddink and Hitzfeld were available along with O'Neill (Hitzfeld being available when Souness got the job too btw) and the fat one took the easy, cheap option and went for Roeder.

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Exactly. Whilst people slag O'Neil's management career, his personality and motivation are infectious. Players want to play for him.

190074[/snapback]

I think, in the main, the people who slagged his record were the Shepherd apologists, i.e. Leazes, HTL and the pro-Hitzfeld sheep. Along with Parky I would have loved to of seen us pursue Hiddink.

190118[/snapback]

 

My Dutch friends tell me that approached correctly (ie not how England did it) we would have got him. :(

190124[/snapback]

Is this another MI6 contact? :rolleyes: The annoying thing is the likes of Hiddink and Hitzfeld were available along with O'Neill (Hitzfeld being available when Souness got the job too btw) and the fat one took the easy, cheap option and went for Roeder.

190135[/snapback]

 

The main problem Al is that the fat one I suspect has too much to hide and is too set in his ways with this Geordie lark. I compare us to HSV in Hamburg where I have lived for a year and with limited resorces, (half our more or less than ours) Doll has done wonders and has singed the sort of players we should have been signing. Van der Vaart for a palty €4.5 (4 times the player Emre is)..Van Buyten, De Jong..etc..HSV have always had money troubles and have only stabalised in the last 3 or 4 years, but what a turnaround..With a new management structure and fresh serious outlook, I expect they are only one or two seasons away from challenging Bayern for the title. All on half our buget if it look at raw spend on talent.

 

Incidentally the manager I would have considered apart from O'neill and Hiddink is:

 

Mancini: a deep understanding of the compressed short game. Charisma and confidence to spare.

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Exactly. Whilst people slag O'Neil's management career, his personality and motivation are infectious. Players want to play for him.

190074[/snapback]

I think, in the main, the people who slagged his record were the Shepherd apologists, i.e. Leazes, HTL and the pro-Hitzfeld sheep. Along with Parky I would have loved to of seen us pursue Hiddink.

190118[/snapback]

 

My Dutch friends tell me that approached correctly (ie not how England did it) we would have got him. <_<

190124[/snapback]

Is this another MI6 contact? :nufc: The annoying thing is the likes of Hiddink and Hitzfeld were available along with O'Neill (Hitzfeld being available when Souness got the job too btw) and the fat one took the easy, cheap option and went for Roeder.

190135[/snapback]

 

The main problem Al is that the fat one I suspect has too much to hide and is too set in his ways with this Geordie lark. I compare us to HSV in Hamburg where I have lived for a year and with limited resorces, (half our more or less than ours) Doll has done wonders and has singed the sort of players we should have been signing. Van der Vaart for a palty €4.5 (4 times the player Emre is)..Van Buyten, De Jong..etc..HSV have always had money troubles and have only stabalised in the last 3 or 4 years, but what a turnaround..With a new management structure and fresh serious outlook, I expect they are only one or two seasons away from challenging Bayern for the title. All on half our buget if it look at raw spend on talent.

 

Incidentally the manager I would have considered apart from O'neill and Hiddink is:

 

Mancini: a deep understanding of the compressed short game. Charisma and confidence to spare.

190164[/snapback]

 

 

I still beleive the main reason we didn't get a top manager is cause fatty has too much to hide regarding transfers and won't let our managers get too involved in it...He see's it like money sloshing around in a barrel rather than what player we actually need. Souness was chosen primarily cause he is as dodgy as FS...The Boumsong deal bears this out. No way on earth we paid £8m to Rangers!

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Exactly. Whilst people slag O'Neil's management career, his personality and motivation are infectious. Players want to play for him.

190074[/snapback]

I think, in the main, the people who slagged his record were the Shepherd apologists, i.e. Leazes, HTL and the pro-Hitzfeld sheep. Along with Parky I would have loved to of seen us pursue Hiddink.

190118[/snapback]

 

 

shame Alex, but I think those who watch the board shelling out over 60m quid in 2 years then call them shite, are sheep. And brainless of course.

 

I do agree about managers being everything, as I have always said this. By the same criteria, it is also why I say [correctly] that nobody criticised Fred when we were in the CL ? Why not, he's the same chairman.

 

He made one bad appointment, then corrected it. Also, while I share the notion that there are people such as Hiddink who may well have captured the optimism on the back of his track record, have you forgotten Dalglish, Gullit and Robson or do you think none of them came highly qualified - and made mistakes showing that they all also make mistakes no matter what their track record is.

 

Who was also calling the board when they supplied the funds to buy Owen, Parker, Emre, Luque, Martins and Duff ?

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Roeder wasn't chosen because he was easy or cheap. He was chosen because O'Neill, Hitzfeld or Hiddink wouldn't have put up with the utterly shambolic way Shephard runs things.

190802[/snapback]

 

So why did Dalglish and Gullit come ?

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Exactly. Whilst people slag O'Neil's management career, his personality and motivation are infectious. Players want to play for him.

190074[/snapback]

I think, in the main, the people who slagged his record were the Shepherd apologists, i.e. Leazes, HTL and the pro-Hitzfeld sheep. Along with Parky I would have loved to of seen us pursue Hiddink.

190118[/snapback]

 

My Dutch friends tell me that approached correctly (ie not how England did it) we would have got him. :nufc:

190124[/snapback]

 

no, that can't be right, we don;t do top managers, only ones who win 4 premierships, 2 FA Cups and 3 managers of the year.

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I didn't want Hitzfeld by the end of it. I was sick to death of HTT and his disciples.

190746[/snapback]

 

so you're not a sheep then :nufc:

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He made one bad appointment, then corrected it.

190975[/snapback]

 

You keep saying that but its not exactly the truth is it. Firstly he made the mistake of not sacking SBR when he should and then sacking him early in the season with no back up plan. Thats two mistakes already.

 

He then didn't make a bad appointment, he made THE worst appointment possible which is more than just a little mistake. He made two further mistakes in paying Blackburn compensation instead of waiting for them to sack him and secondly giving him a massive contract worth a fortune which has cost us millions.

 

And he didn't "just correct it" at all. He hired him, watched a truly awful season, including several key incidents that showed Souness to be worse than we thought possible and he failed to sack him when to do anything other than that was moronic.

He then gave a man who had shown himself to be grossly incompetent, money to spend pre-season (another mistake) and having watched yet more shite from Souness' team he still failed to sack him even though we were a complete embarassment (another mistake). Then finally and way too late he eventually made the right decision and sacked him, but again had no plan in place even though he'd been watching shite for months and should have had the forsight to get something lined up.

 

From when Bobby should have left to the current day, Fred has made a string of mistakes not just one.

 

We've already pointed out that us and Liverpool were practically identical not long ago and the different actions of their board and ours as seen the two clubs worlds apart now.

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Exactly. Whilst people slag O'Neil's management career, his personality and motivation are infectious. Players want to play for him.

190074[/snapback]

Ungrateful bastard. You saw last night that people want to play for Glen too :nufc:

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He made one bad appointment, then corrected it.

190975[/snapback]

 

You keep saying that but its not exactly the truth is it. Firstly he made the mistake of not sacking SBR when he should and then sacking him early in the season with no back up plan. Thats two mistakes already.

 

He then didn't make a bad appointment, he made THE worst appointment possible which is more than just a little mistake. He made two further mistakes in paying Blackburn compensation instead of waiting for them to sack him and secondly giving him a massive contract worth a fortune which has cost us millions.

 

And he didn't "just correct it" at all. He hired him, watched a truly awful season, including several key incidents that showed Souness to be worse than we thought possible and he failed to sack him when to do anything other than that was moronic.

He then gave a man who had shown himself to be grossly incompetent, money to spend pre-season (another mistake) and having watched yet more shite from Souness' team he still failed to sack him even though we were a complete embarassment (another mistake). Then finally and way too late he eventually made the right decision and sacked him, but again had no plan in place even though he'd been watching shite for months and should have had the forsight to get something lined up.

 

From when Bobby should have left to the current day, Fred has made a string of mistakes not just one.

 

We've already pointed out that us and Liverpool were practically identical not long ago and the different actions of their board and ours as seen the two clubs worlds apart now.

190983[/snapback]

In the meantime he gave our worst recent manager - and this is £ per month employed - more money than any other. Genius.

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i made the following point yonks ago.....

 

 

Each manager has been appointed on the basis on the failures of his predecessor.

 

For example:

 

Dalgleish appointed as a proven winner cos Keegan never won out.

 

Guillitt appointed to give us sexy football as Dalgleish style of football was a bit bland.

 

Robson appointed (partly) cos of his father figure man managment skills as Guillitt fell out with players

 

Souness appointed to restore discipline as Robson had 'lost the dressing room'

 

 

Roeder appears to be a break in the chain but only cos he was the cheap option.

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Agreed about the ramifications of appointing this manager, he's virtually unknown tbf.

 

Every other club with our support and money wins something every now and then. And even clubs with way less cash and support have managed it. Our fans are loyal to the point of madness, scrimping and saving and letting their bairns go hungry so they can buy a season ticket and drink piss all weekend. <_<

The fervour/loyalty of these fans has never been rewarded and those of you with short memories ought to be reminded that FFS let us know exactly what he thought of us all in 1998.

 

The ££££ that have flowed through the toon is fucking ridiculous to have returned zilch.

 

Only a total fool would say this has not been down to mis-management at the highest level. Get the cunt out, big signings mean fuck all if you repeatedly win fuck all. The clubs who have accelerated away from us will leave us for dust unless we change things at the top.

 

Why does the board of the PLC continue to alllow this cunt carte blanche?

 

It's a weird thing supporting a football team, your identity is tied up in it therefore you can't just walk away no matter how aware you may be that things are not right; rotten to the core. It's like finding out your best mate's a necrophilliac. You still love him but you divvent shake his hand anymore. :nufc: Not that that's happened to me like.

Edited by walkinthedog

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He made one bad appointment, then corrected it.

190975[/snapback]

 

You keep saying that but its not exactly the truth is it. Firstly he made the mistake of not sacking SBR when he should and then sacking him early in the season with no back up plan. Thats two mistakes already.

 

He then didn't make a bad appointment, he made THE worst appointment possible which is more than just a little mistake. He made two further mistakes in paying Blackburn compensation instead of waiting for them to sack him and secondly giving him a massive contract worth a fortune which has cost us millions.

 

And he didn't "just correct it" at all. He hired him, watched a truly awful season, including several key incidents that showed Souness to be worse than we thought possible and he failed to sack him when to do anything other than that was moronic.

He then gave a man who had shown himself to be grossly incompetent, money to spend pre-season (another mistake) and having watched yet more shite from Souness' team he still failed to sack him even though we were a complete embarassment (another mistake). Then finally and way too late he eventually made the right decision and sacked him, but again had no plan in place even though he'd been watching shite for months and should have had the forsight to get something lined up.

 

From when Bobby should have left to the current day, Fred has made a string of mistakes not just one.

 

We've already pointed out that us and Liverpool were practically identical not long ago and the different actions of their board and ours as seen the two clubs worlds apart now.

190983[/snapback]

 

Maybe he was listening to Craig or Gemmill when he kept him on :nufc:

 

There is nothing wrong with Newcastle United that the right manager won't put right quickly, people on the board are saying that it is the biggest single factor in the fortunes of a football club. And they are right.

 

And yet - defining "failure" and success can't be dependent on solely the winning of one of only 2 domestic trophies, that means 90 teams are "failures", which is absurd.

 

YOU will be aware of the change in the club since 1992, the situation has changed from one of dreaming of winning a trophy, to one of being massively pissed off that we haven't. Raised expectations, they have at least achieved this, and I have NEVER said they are perfect, I have ALWAYS said they have made mistakes but have done well and finding someone better will be far from easy. YOU will see this point, but I know others won't.

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He made one bad appointment, then corrected it.

190975[/snapback]

 

You keep saying that but its not exactly the truth is it. Firstly he made the mistake of not sacking SBR when he should and then sacking him early in the season with no back up plan. Thats two mistakes already.

 

He then didn't make a bad appointment, he made THE worst appointment possible which is more than just a little mistake. He made two further mistakes in paying Blackburn compensation instead of waiting for them to sack him and secondly giving him a massive contract worth a fortune which has cost us millions.

 

And he didn't "just correct it" at all. He hired him, watched a truly awful season, including several key incidents that showed Souness to be worse than we thought possible and he failed to sack him when to do anything other than that was moronic.

He then gave a man who had shown himself to be grossly incompetent, money to spend pre-season (another mistake) and having watched yet more shite from Souness' team he still failed to sack him even though we were a complete embarassment (another mistake). Then finally and way too late he eventually made the right decision and sacked him, but again had no plan in place even though he'd been watching shite for months and should have had the forsight to get something lined up.

 

From when Bobby should have left to the current day, Fred has made a string of mistakes not just one.

 

We've already pointed out that us and Liverpool were practically identical not long ago and the different actions of their board and ours as seen the two clubs worlds apart now.

190983[/snapback]

 

Maybe he was listening to Craig or Gemmill when he kept him on :nufc:

 

There is nothing wrong with Newcastle United that the right manager won't put right quickly, people on the board are saying that it is the biggest single factor in the fortunes of a football club. And they are right.

 

And yet - defining "failure" and success can't be dependent on solely the winning of one of only 2 domestic trophies, that means 90 teams are "failures", which is absurd.

 

YOU will be aware of the change in the club since 1992, the situation has changed from one of dreaming of winning a trophy, to one of being massively pissed off that we haven't. Raised expectations, they have at least achieved this, and I have NEVER said they are perfect, I have ALWAYS said they have made mistakes but have done well and finding someone better will be far from easy. YOU will see this point, but I know others won't.

191005[/snapback]

 

I agree the right manager could do well at NUFC and do so quickly, but my problem is i don't see Shepherd getting the right man anytime soon. And i've never seen trophies as the only guide to success because as you say theres only 3 domestic ones available! Mind you i long since gave up on us winning a trophy as whether we are good, bad or indifferent this club is cursed never to win anything!!!

 

But with the money we have available to compete with the top teams i'd expect to do better than we have myself! Because lets be honest i'd have moved Bobby on at the right time and not employed Souness so i'd be way ahead of the game by now <_<

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