manc-mag 1 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 It's a well known fact the geordie public will cheer attacking, flair, creativity, pace, goal scorers, They will not cheer a rabble who can't string three forward passes together. Look at the folk who become proper legends at this club and cult heroes - Milburn ( "the most exciting thing I've seen on a pitch" - Stokoe), MacDonald, Keegan, Beardsley, Shearer, Ginola, Gascoigne, Asprilla, Ferdinand, need I continue (I'm sure someone else could provide a better list of examples)? It works with other sports as well - look at the excitement Freddie Flintoff produces in the crowd and then the other players feed on that. You may say the crowd has to cheer the team to get them going and start playing good football, I agree that players (good players, flair players) feed on the atmosphere the crowd provides, but there has to be a ignition, a spark to get the crowd going first. The crowd doesn't get excited from the team playing backwards football, and geeing them up with a bit of local hero isn't going to cut it. The chairman must realise this, Sir John certainly did so you'd think his sackless son would have picked it up and the ringpiece that is Shepherd may have heard about the crowd bouncing along to flair, creative flowing football. For christs sake just buy someone with a bit of flair, Freddie and give the public something to shout about. 17964[/snapback] It's chicken and egg though. If the players feel like the crowd is hostile the players will wilt like an erection in an old peoples home. Even when the team are winning, I don't think the crowd are confident and loud enough. We can go round all day. I think a lot of the problem is the crowd's expectation for something to go wrong. You think it stems from the players. I can't really see us getting any further with it all. 17979[/snapback] Do you imagine fans at places like the Bernebau or the Nou Camp dont create a hostile atmosphere when things arent going well? Too fucking right they do - they let their players know when their performances are unaccpetable. Presumably we should be blaming the Madrid fans for their 30-odd European Cup trophies?! If the players feel pressurised amidst 50 odd thousand fans when up against West ham then I'd love to see them perform in front of 100,000 fans in a Barca team that'd lost a few games on the bounce! Total bollocks of course. If they can't look within themselves to find what is needed to succeed then they're not the type of players that should be here in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia's Mobile 0 Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 It's a well known fact the geordie public will cheer attacking, flair, creativity, pace, goal scorers, They will not cheer a rabble who can't string three forward passes together. Look at the folk who become proper legends at this club and cult heroes - Milburn ( "the most exciting thing I've seen on a pitch" - Stokoe), MacDonald, Keegan, Beardsley, Shearer, Ginola, Gascoigne, Asprilla, Ferdinand, need I continue (I'm sure someone else could provide a better list of examples)? It works with other sports as well - look at the excitement Freddie Flintoff produces in the crowd and then the other players feed on that. You may say the crowd has to cheer the team to get them going and start playing good football, I agree that players (good players, flair players) feed on the atmosphere the crowd provides, but there has to be a ignition, a spark to get the crowd going first. The crowd doesn't get excited from the team playing backwards football, and geeing them up with a bit of local hero isn't going to cut it. The chairman must realise this, Sir John certainly did so you'd think his sackless son would have picked it up and the ringpiece that is Shepherd may have heard about the crowd bouncing along to flair, creative flowing football. For christs sake just buy someone with a bit of flair, Freddie and give the public something to shout about. 17964[/snapback] It's chicken and egg though. If the players feel like the crowd is hostile the players will wilt like an erection in an old peoples home. Even when the team are winning, I don't think the crowd are confident and loud enough. We can go round all day. I think a lot of the problem is the crowd's expectation for something to go wrong. You think it stems from the players. I can't really see us getting any further with it all. 17979[/snapback] Do you imagine fans at places like the Bernebau or the Nou Camp dont create a hostile atmosphere when things arent going well? Too fucking right they do - they let their players know when their performances are unaccpetable. Presumably we should be blaming the Madrid fans for their 30-odd European Cup trophies?! If the players feel pressurised amidst 50 odd thousand fans when up against West ham then I'd love to see them perform in front of 100,000 fans in a Barca team that'd lost a few games on the bounce! Total bollocks of course. If they can't look within themselves to find what is needed to succeed then they're not the type of players that should be here in the first place. 18001[/snapback] Real Madrid are an good example. How much have they spent lately? How much have they won lately? Team spirit extends from the crowd to the team. GET BEHIND THE LADS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!!! SING YOUR HEARTS OUT FOR 90 MINUTES AND SEE IF IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. Believe it or not, being paid a shitload of money has nothing to do with it. It just alienates us and them. They're still human though and need to feel that the crowd are behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar 0 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 (edited) Real Madrid are an good example. How much have they spent lately? How much have they won lately? Aye fuckin hell, come on lads it could be worse - we could be Real Madrid. Edited August 25, 2005 by BlueStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Do you really think Real Madrid are a good example of how negative fans stop you winning things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie 0 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Real Madrid are an good example. How much have they spent lately? How much have they won lately? Aye fuckin hell, come on lads it could be worse - we could be Real Madrid. 18011[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 (edited) It's a well known fact the geordie public will cheer attacking, flair, creativity, pace, goal scorers, They will not cheer a rabble who can't string three forward passes together. Look at the folk who become proper legends at this club and cult heroes - Milburn ( "the most exciting thing I've seen on a pitch" - Stokoe), MacDonald, Keegan, Beardsley, Shearer, Ginola, Gascoigne, Asprilla, Ferdinand, need I continue (I'm sure someone else could provide a better list of examples)? It works with other sports as well - look at the excitement Freddie Flintoff produces in the crowd and then the other players feed on that. You may say the crowd has to cheer the team to get them going and start playing good football, I agree that players (good players, flair players) feed on the atmosphere the crowd provides, but there has to be a ignition, a spark to get the crowd going first. The crowd doesn't get excited from the team playing backwards football, and geeing them up with a bit of local hero isn't going to cut it. The chairman must realise this, Sir John certainly did so you'd think his sackless son would have picked it up and the ringpiece that is Shepherd may have heard about the crowd bouncing along to flair, creative flowing football. For christs sake just buy someone with a bit of flair, Freddie and give the public something to shout about. 17964[/snapback] It's chicken and egg though. If the players feel like the crowd is hostile the players will wilt like an erection in an old peoples home. Even when the team are winning, I don't think the crowd are confident and loud enough. We can go round all day. I think a lot of the problem is the crowd's expectation for something to go wrong. You think it stems from the players. I can't really see us getting any further with it all. 17979[/snapback] Do you imagine fans at places like the Bernebau or the Nou Camp dont create a hostile atmosphere when things arent going well? Too fucking right they do - they let their players know when their performances are unaccpetable. Presumably we should be blaming the Madrid fans for their 30-odd European Cup trophies?! If the players feel pressurised amidst 50 odd thousand fans when up against West ham then I'd love to see them perform in front of 100,000 fans in a Barca team that'd lost a few games on the bounce! Total bollocks of course. If they can't look within themselves to find what is needed to succeed then they're not the type of players that should be here in the first place. 18001[/snapback] Real Madrid are an good example. How much have they spent lately? How much have they won lately? Team spirit extends from the crowd to the team. GET BEHIND THE LADS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!!! SING YOUR HEARTS OUT FOR 90 MINUTES AND SEE IF IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. Believe it or not, being paid a shitload of money has nothing to do with it. It just alienates us and them. They're still human though and need to feel that the crowd are behind them. 18007[/snapback] I actually agree with that to a large extent. It's an extrinsic factor. Much like the crowd is. Bottom line is the disire to win and the balls to perform comes from within. Edited August 25, 2005 by manc-mag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Real Madrid are an good example. How much have they spent lately? How much have they won lately? Team spirit extends from the crowd to the team. GET BEHIND THE LADS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!!! SING YOUR HEARTS OUT FOR 90 MINUTES AND SEE IF IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. Believe it or not, being paid a shitload of money has nothing to do with it. It just alienates us and them. They're still human though and need to feel that the crowd are behind them. 18007[/snapback] That bit I totally agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieshandy 0 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Agreed, you have to get behind the team, be the twelfth man and all that. But they have to put something on the pitch to get behind, otherwise you just being the first man. It works both ways. I'm not even saying that we have to be winning for the crowd to get up a bit, if they just showed some resemblence to a team that might win it would do the job. Thats why people would cheer on Bellamy, aye he's a prick and couldn't finish but he ran his bollocks off for the team and tried and then when we started cheering that the rest got going as well. This lot at the moment haven't got bollocks to run off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Real Madrid are an good example. How much have they spent lately? How much have they won lately? Team spirit extends from the crowd to the team. GET BEHIND THE LADS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!!! SING YOUR HEARTS OUT FOR 90 MINUTES AND SEE IF IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. Believe it or not, being paid a shitload of money has nothing to do with it. It just alienates us and them. They're still human though and need to feel that the crowd are behind them. 18007[/snapback] That bit I totally agree with. 18017[/snapback] Well, even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieshandy 0 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 There might be players that don't want to be trying things in case they get caught out and then punished. IF that's the case then they truly shouldn't be on the field of play. Aye, keep the ball, play it safe. But once in a while you have to go for it, try something. Everyone is too scared in case it doesn't come off and they get derided by the crowd. That said it comes down to the tactics that are being played. There should be cover available on the pitch to back up players if something goes wrong. Do the players not trust their team mates enough to be scared of making a run or a creative pass. If you don't try to go for it you get no where. This is true at all levels - pitch, tactics, boardroom. And in all areas of life. We're at a stage no if we want to go forward we have to take a couple of risks in all of the above areas. The fans already take enough risks splashing out on tickets and love for the club, it's time for the club to take a couple - an SBR-special triple subsitution if you like. Just something, anything to get us going again. At the moment we're a laughing stock, don't kid yourself, EVERYONE knows this club is a bad way. It's time to get going again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia's Mobile 0 Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 There might be players that don't want to be trying things in case they get caught out and then punished. IF that's the case then they truly shouldn't be on the field of play. Aye, keep the ball, play it safe. But once in a while you have to go for it, try something. Everyone is too scared in case it doesn't come off and they get derided by the crowd. That said it comes down to the tactics that are being played. There should be cover available on the pitch to back up players if something goes wrong. Do the players not trust their team mates enough to be scared of making a run or a creative pass. If you don't try to go for it you get no where. This is true at all levels - pitch, tactics, boardroom. And in all areas of life. We're at a stage no if we want to go forward we have to take a couple of risks in all of the above areas. The fans already take enough risks splashing out on tickets and love for the club, it's time for the club to take a couple - an SBR-special triple subsitution if you like. Just something, anything to get us going again. At the moment we're a laughing stock, don't kid yourself, EVERYONE knows this club is a bad way. It's time to get going again. 18033[/snapback] I think you and I basically agree. Ok, I've put my point in a provocative way, but I felt pissed off at the moaning. The only part where we disagree is about the risks. You say the fans have taken the risk by buying the ticket. I disagree. As galling as it seems, that is the start point. The players turn up and get paid, the fans turn up and don't get paid. They also get to have beer and ciggies mind. The start point is fans and players in the stadium, opposing side and fans and nil nil. Your point about not wanting to take a risk is absolutely on the money. The fans don't want to risk their hopes by giving it loads on the old chants. The players don't want to risk looking like proper charlies. So the players pass it back and forth. The fans shuffle a bit. Something nearly happens. A half hearted chant breaks out and then dies... I know like I know my own cock, that a massive investment of belief by the fans, in the team would turn this club around more than any player or manager could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 There might be players that don't want to be trying things in case they get caught out and then punished. IF that's the case then they truly shouldn't be on the field of play. Aye, keep the ball, play it safe. But once in a while you have to go for it, try something. Everyone is too scared in case it doesn't come off and they get derided by the crowd. That said it comes down to the tactics that are being played. There should be cover available on the pitch to back up players if something goes wrong. Do the players not trust their team mates enough to be scared of making a run or a creative pass. If you don't try to go for it you get no where. This is true at all levels - pitch, tactics, boardroom. And in all areas of life. We're at a stage no if we want to go forward we have to take a couple of risks in all of the above areas. The fans already take enough risks splashing out on tickets and love for the club, it's time for the club to take a couple - an SBR-special triple subsitution if you like. Just something, anything to get us going again. At the moment we're a laughing stock, don't kid yourself, EVERYONE knows this club is a bad way. It's time to get going again. 18033[/snapback] I think you and I basically agree. Ok, I've put my point in a provocative way, but I felt pissed off at the moaning. The only part where we disagree is about the risks. You say the fans have taken the risk by buying the ticket. I disagree. As galling as it seems, that is the start point. The players turn up and get paid, the fans turn up and don't get paid. They also get to have beer and ciggies mind. The start point is fans and players in the stadium, opposing side and fans and nil nil. Your point about not wanting to take a risk is absolutely on the money. The fans don't want to risk their hopes by giving it loads on the old chants. The players don't want to risk looking like proper charlies. So the players pass it back and forth. The fans shuffle a bit. Something nearly happens. A half hearted chant breaks out and then dies... I know like I know my own cock, that a massive investment of belief by the fans, in the team would turn this club around more than any player or manager could. 18049[/snapback] We came pretty close under Keegan. What do you imagine caused the wheels to come off there? A poorly choreographed chant? Bad acoustics? Or something more basic, like tactics? I dont think anyone disagrees that the crowd can lift the team, but frankly the way you've put it so far more or less absolves the players of any responsibility whatsoever. Moreover, we should be seeing an awful lot more from players in the face of adversity than we are currently. Whats acceptable of players at this club simply would not be tolerated at other clubs (meaning those clubs that actually win trophies). What you're doing in effect is making excuses and this in itself is symptomatic of why we allow the players to get away with the sort of performances that we are witnessing. They're grown men for fucks sake. They should be able to stand up for themselves and be counted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17530 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 I know like I know my own cock, that a massive investment of belief by the fans, in the team would turn this club around more than any player or manager could. 18049[/snapback] You really are on a different planet aren't you? Just one problem with your theory. I was at the Arsenal match last week, and can verify its true what they say about the Highbury library - they didn't make a squeak. Yet Arsenal are one of the best teams on the planet, and only 2 years ago went the whole SEASON unbeaten in the league, both home and away. Nothing to do with their manager and players, I suppose? Also, Newcastle fans are very noisy away from home, and guess what, we're shite. Even at Cardiff where we owned ManU, we were utter shit. So how do you square this? You really haven't a clue, have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Also, Newcastle fans are very noisy away from home, and guess what, we're shite. Even at Cardiff where we owned ManU, we were utter shit. So how do you square this? You really haven't a clue, have you? 18063[/snapback] He's right like, we pissed all over the Manure fans at Cardiff yet got a 4-1 drubbing out of it. 90 minutes of backing the team, apart from Nicky Butt like. Twat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34151 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 I know like I know my own cock, that a massive investment of belief by the fans, in the team would turn this club around more than any player or manager could. 18049[/snapback] You really are on a different planet aren't you? Just one problem with your theory. I was at the Arsenal match last week, and can verify its true what they say about the Highbury library - they didn't make a squeak. Yet Arsenal are one of the best teams on the planet, and only 2 years ago went the whole SEASON unbeaten in the league, both home and away. Nothing to do with their manager and players, I suppose? Also, Newcastle fans are very noisy away from home, and guess what, we're shite. Even at Cardiff where we owned ManU, we were utter shit. So how do you square this? You really haven't a clue, have you? 18063[/snapback] Not often I agree with you Hobbesy baby, but I think even we can unite against the utter cobblers that this one's coming up with. "I know like I know my own cock, that a massive investment of belief by the fans, in the team would turn this club around more than any player or manager could." KM, I can only assume you're 30 stone and haven't seen your cock in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar 0 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 It was great when the Man U fans stayed perfectly silent throughout the semi, and even after the match looked like they'd just been relegated, while the toon fans shouted, cheered, roard, chanted and got behind the team for 90 minutes solid. The utterly spinless performance we put in must have been my imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia's Mobile 0 Posted August 25, 2005 Author Share Posted August 25, 2005 I know like I know my own cock, that a massive investment of belief by the fans, in the team would turn this club around more than any player or manager could. 18049[/snapback] You really are on a different planet aren't you? Just one problem with your theory. I was at the Arsenal match last week, and can verify its true what they say about the Highbury library - they didn't make a squeak. Yet Arsenal are one of the best teams on the planet, and only 2 years ago went the whole SEASON unbeaten in the league, both home and away. Nothing to do with their manager and players, I suppose? Also, Newcastle fans are very noisy away from home, and guess what, we're shite. Even at Cardiff where we owned ManU, we were utter shit. So how do you square this? You really haven't a clue, have you? 18063[/snapback] What is so hard for you to understand? I don't think we should sack Souness now. I don't think the negative fans are helping the situation. That's my opinion.... Yes I have a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 I know like I know my own cock, that a massive investment of belief by the fans, in the team would turn this club around more than any player or manager could. 18049[/snapback] You really are on a different planet aren't you? Just one problem with your theory. I was at the Arsenal match last week, and can verify its true what they say about the Highbury library - they didn't make a squeak. Yet Arsenal are one of the best teams on the planet, and only 2 years ago went the whole SEASON unbeaten in the league, both home and away. Nothing to do with their manager and players, I suppose? Also, Newcastle fans are very noisy away from home, and guess what, we're shite. Even at Cardiff where we owned ManU, we were utter shit. So how do you square this? You really haven't a clue, have you? 18063[/snapback] What is so hard for you to understand? I don't think we should sack Souness now. I don't think the negative fans are helping the situation. That's my opinion.... Yes I have a clue. 18082[/snapback] Well it's your modified opinion after being shot down for the initial opinion you expressed in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordiesned 0 Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 (edited) ...it's the bloody whinging fans. Not ALL the fans, just the whinging ones. The ones who think we have a God given right to win something. The ones who are looking for a crack to complain about. The ones who only sing when we're winning. The ones who think Toon fans should only have Geordie accents. The ones who keep saying our club is a joke. I have good friends who support Nottingham Forest, Ipswich, Norwich and Plymouth Argyle and they would kill to be where we are. Someone is responsible for us having the money to bid £18m for Owen. RANT OVER (possibly) 17332[/snapback] Biggest bag of shite I've read for a long time (and that's saying something considering I buy The Chronicle)! Sorry I didn't reply last night but I was at Bolton both cheering on the lads and calling for Freddie's head. So what sort of fan does that make me then? I suppose it's my fault we lost is it? Is it hell! Get a grip and get pull your head up out of the sand. We lost because we were fucking shite, have been for well over a year and are getting worse. We fielded 4 central midfielders who did just that - stayed in the centre all night. At one point they could have all held hands they were so close to each other! A complete lack of width due to players being sold and no new players brought in (both GS and FF to blame for that one - or is that the fans fault as well?) Shearer effectively playing on his own again up front - Ameobi might as well have not bothered turning up. I don't think we have a God given right to win something but I bloody well know that we should be a hell of a lot closer than we are now considering where we were little over 12 months ago. "The ones looking for a crack to complain about." A crack? There's a bloody great casm at the moment! "The ones who keep saying our club is a joke." Our club is a joke. There you go. It's now officially my fault if we lose on Sunday! Edited August 25, 2005 by Geordiesned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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