Howaythelads

No, thats the managers job to make those decisions 100591[/snapback] I saw this post of Craig's as so dumb it had to be a wind-up. Even Craig isn't capable of this level of stupidity. Gemmill, maybe.

Spot on. Omar. We all want all of the players to be fantastic, it's sad that some people allow that emotion to take over their brain and so can't see when somebody is totally shit.

No we don't.

0-1 If Luque plays I reckon we'll win 50-1. He's brilliant, like.

Errr aye. What's your point, Craig? It seems to be common knowledge that a football manager these days tells the Board who he wants to buy and the Board then set about trying to bring those players to the club. Has anyone said anything different? The manager chooses the players though, and that's how it should be. Are you suggesting the club employs a team manager, who is supposed to be expert in football matters but then the board veto his decisions because they think they know more about football than the manager they've employed? If Fred stuck his oar in like this and made footballing decisions instead of the manager, everybody in the football world would be slagging him off relentlessly for it. He'd be correctly labelled a shit chairman in that scenario. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Should be your signature, mate.

First bit in bold....... Err ..... so ?? What's your problem with that? It's an opinion that I expressed on a message board at the time. Was slated for it, same as I was for predicting Souness would take us into a relegation scrap. As it happens, there was one other person on the message board concerned ( great shame it doesn't exist anymore ) who believed the same. So in fact there were 2 of us with the ability to see Robson had lost it. All this shows is that later events have since proven me to be correct, so thanks for highlighting it. Next time you tell me I'm posting shite you may want to remember that I was one of only two people in the world who could see Robson had lost it the season we finished 3rd. Second bit in bold......Go back over the thread and show me anywhere I said that generally people wanted Robson out, the insinuation being it was like people wanting Souness out. What I actually said is that many people recognised the performances during the year we were 3rd were worse than the year before, acknowledged by others on here, and that many people thought Robson had lost it during the latter part of that season. Nowhere have I said that people were actively and loudly calling for his head, which is what you imply.

So what exactly is your problem with me believing that? I've just looked back over the thread and extracted some quotes to recap here, I'm not sure what the problem is. The 'discussion' about sentiment is a moot point as well. All I'm trying to say is that IF it is recognised a manager can do no more, that is the time to move him on, it is sentimental to keep him otherwise. If it's not recognised then obviously it's not sentimental to keep him in the job, is it? If it's not seen that a problem exists why would the manager be moved on?

Of course neither LM or yourself have ever failed to respond to a question that's been put, have you HTL? 100344[/snapback] I don't duck questions, Craig. 100367[/snapback] But you'll have a go at me for ducking them but not your mate. 100375[/snapback] I'm happy to answer it. In general, the manager, the man who is appointed and paid big wages to be responsible for team affairs takes the credit, and the blame when it goes wrong, for all players joining and leaving the club. That's because he makes the choices about who comes in and who leaves. The Chairman gets the credit for making the money available for signings.

Measured against what criteria? How do you determine "the best of...." Here's a clue.......track record, perhaps?

Of course neither LM or yourself have ever failed to respond to a question that's been put, have you HTL? 100344[/snapback] I don't duck questions, Craig.

LM said........ "So what is YOUR criteria for choosing a manager Alex ?" In direct reply, Alex said........ "What have we won under Shepherd's stewardship and what level of stability and of long-term planning has he displayed?" Hmm.......

Are you not pleased we kept him? I know he's injured constantly, but I think if (huge if) we can get him playing regularly he's a big player for us. We look a totally different team when he's on song. 99906[/snapback] He won't be fit often enough. He's a big player for us when he plays only because shithead booted out all of the other players with flair, pace and movement. I think Dyer as a footballer has talent, he could be good. Unfortunately, he's fúcking stupid and so is wasting his talent.

A player will only be offered a new contract if the TEAM MANAGER makes it known that he wishes to keep the player at the club, therefore, even a fúcking dodo can work out that Dyer was awarded a new contract because Souness wanted to keep him.

There is no way that anybody could have legitimately stated hed be shite, anyone who watched him play before he came to us raved about him, pace, skill, finishing the lot he appeared to be class. All the manager of the time could go off was what we all saw, a good player. The fact he turned out to be a crock of shite was in no way inevitable. 99549[/snapback] I haven't noticed anybody saying he'd be shite BEFORE he came here. I thought it was after he'd been seen sauntering around the pitch in a black and white shirt looking like he didn't give a shit.

I'll bite, 'cos it's fun. That's because Robert didn't do what Luque does ( or should I say doesn't ). He scored and created more goals than the rest of the midfielders combined, which means despite how much people want to believe otherwise, Robert produced something, Luque has produced fúck all.

No room for sentiment mate. Liverpoo got rid of Hoolia despite winning 5 trophies. The signs were there and this is one thing I do blame FS for, he wasn't ruthless enough. 99363[/snapback] I don't think it's being sentimental to allow someone who took us from relegation fodder to a second consecutive top four finish, another season just because he had made some iffy decisions. What he had done before suggested he could get us back on track (especially as we were hardly off it in the first place). What was sentimental was allowing him to continue on the begining of the season after when he had allowed the team to fall well below the standards he had set and after he had shown that he had little idea of how to put things right. 99371[/snapback] I'm not saying he made some 'iffy' decisions. Where do you get that from? What I'm saying is that the evidence on the pitch during the latter stages of that season showed that Robson could take the club no further. The following season proved it for god's sake. If the Chairman had recognised that and kept Robson on for the reason you state, then that IS sentment. Everybody I know believes that when we finished 3rd the performances generally were poorer than when we finished 4th the year before. Surely you remember that period? Everybody I spoke to on match days thought this, and people were banging on about it on nufc boards all over the shop at the time. 99378[/snapback] That was my opininion and I wasn't trying to attribute it to you. I think he made some iffy decisions that resulting in our football suffering a bit that season but didn't imo suggest he couldn't take us any futher. I agree his actions of the next season did prove that though and he should have gone then. In a way that showed respect for what he did for us and his standing in the game. It is not sentiment keeping a bloke on who took us to third. Every one makes some mistakes and not firing them for each one is not sentiment. 99397[/snapback] I'm not advocating anyone should be sacked for a 'mistake' per se. I'm saying that, in my opinion, the signs were there during the season we finished 3rd that he'd lost the players, that he wouldn't be able to take us further. It clearly IS sentiment to then recognise that and keep a manager on because of the fact he improved our team. 99402[/snapback] Ok it would have been sentiment for you to keep him on since you new he wasn't up to it any more. For the rest of us who thought he'd just made a couple of mistakes and didn't see any reason why he couldn't rectify them it wasn't. Happy with that? 99604[/snapback] Not sure what your point is, tbh. The tone of your post sounds a bit juvenile to say the least. If you're trying to suggest I'm saying I was the only one who could see this you'd be badly mistaken again. At that time I was involved in comversation with lots of people on matchdays, as I'm sure you are as well, many people thought we weren't as good that season as when we finished 4th and many thought the players were not performing to 100% for Robson. If you didn't see it., or people near you didn't see it, then that's your problem. Perhaps you spend most of your time in the bar, or something.

Ye knaaa what? you'd make a shite TV detective, Credits roll, theres a scream and a bodies found, cue to the driveway and a big old Ford Capri pulls up and out steps inspector Leazes, butler opens the door and you say "you're nicked, it was obvious from the start" Cue closing credits and music..... 99501[/snapback] Ha ha ha What isn't funny is that LM was correct.........from the start. But...........give him time, blah blah blah.

Up front on his own????? 99451[/snapback] few people can play worse than ameobi on his own but a luque ameobi partnership would do for today 99454[/snapback] I find Shola plays better leading the line tbh. 99456[/snapback] could be but i think we really should take a gamble on luque. The guy was quality in spain, he's got such great ability and technical skill. He isn't getting the chance here. Take the example of peter crouch, rubbish for liverpool for such a long time. but they had faith in him. surely you have got to have faith in someone you have paid so much for?? now crouch has started to play well, and he hasnt got a tenth of the ability of luque. Im not saying luque will definitely succeed here. but it will be such a pity if we dont give him the chance to. We have to put aside this lazy foreigner thing to be honest 99457[/snapback] Difference is that Crouch showed some effort, desire to play for the club and some heart. You can't compare the two.

Well if that blend thats so wrong gets us its 4th win on the trot tonight i'll be delighted. 99428[/snapback] Reminds me of last season when we had a winning run against shite teams in the Uefa Cup, blinkered types claiming that all was well, while those of us who can see the bigger picture recognised the problems. BTW We've conceded just 1 goal in the last 4 games, you'll be telling me next that our defenders are top notch and we have no problems at the back.

So, to be clear. You reckon we turned in better performances the season we were 3rd compared to when we were 4th? That's what you're saying? We scored less goals, lost more matches and you think we were better because we went up one place? Were the Liverpool fans up in arms when they sacked Hoolia? They'd won 5 trophies. Perhaps their supporters have greater ambition than the likes of some Newcastle supporters, Dan.

No room for sentiment mate. Liverpoo got rid of Hoolia despite winning 5 trophies. The signs were there and this is one thing I do blame FS for, he wasn't ruthless enough. 99363[/snapback] I don't think it's being sentimental to allow someone who took us from relegation fodder to a second consecutive top four finish, another season just because he had made some iffy decisions. What he had done before suggested he could get us back on track (especially as we were hardly off it in the first place). What was sentimental was allowing him to continue on the begining of the season after when he had allowed the team to fall well below the standards he had set and after he had shown that he had little idea of how to put things right. 99371[/snapback] I'm not saying he made some 'iffy' decisions. Where do you get that from? What I'm saying is that the evidence on the pitch during the latter stages of that season showed that Robson could take the club no further. The following season proved it for god's sake. If the Chairman had recognised that and kept Robson on for the reason you state, then that IS sentment. Everybody I know believes that when we finished 3rd the performances generally were poorer than when we finished 4th the year before. Surely you remember that period? Everybody I spoke to on match days thought this, and people were banging on about it on nufc boards all over the shop at the time. 99378[/snapback] That was my opininion and I wasn't trying to attribute it to you. I think he made some iffy decisions that resulting in our football suffering a bit that season but didn't imo suggest he couldn't take us any futher. I agree his actions of the next season did prove that though and he should have gone then. In a way that showed respect for what he did for us and his standing in the game. It is not sentiment keeping a bloke on who took us to third. Every one makes some mistakes and not firing them for each one is not sentiment. 99397[/snapback] I'm not advocating anyone should be sacked for a 'mistake' per se. I'm saying that, in my opinion, the signs were there during the season we finished 3rd that he'd lost the players, that he wouldn't be able to take us further. It clearly IS sentiment to then recognise that and keep a manager on because of the fact he improved our team.

It was after we finished 3rd that we lost the play off to Belgrade. We lost to Belgrade in August/September 2003, we finished 3rd in May 2003. It is generally accepted by many that the slide began AFTER that match with Belgrade, I thought it started earlier that same year. That's all I'm saying.

No room for sentiment mate. Liverpoo got rid of Hoolia despite winning 5 trophies. The signs were there and this is one thing I do blame FS for, he wasn't ruthless enough. 99363[/snapback] i don't agree with that like. 99381[/snapback] Which bit........ 1. No room for sentiment mate 2. Liverpoo got rid of Hoolia despite winning 5 trophies 3. The signs were there 4. this is one thing I do blame FS for, he wasn't ruthless enough. Just so I know, like. 99384[/snapback] i don't agree that we were in a position to sack the manager after he'd taken us up a place in the league. i agree about there being no room for sentiment but it's not is af we were stuggling at the time is it? under bobby we had enjoyed our two best seasons since keegan. we were winning games, playing attacking, attractive football and it was actually fun to go the the match again for the first time in years. i don't agree the signs were there. we were played good football that season, if not quite as good as the season before. and if shepherd had sacked robson the summer after we finished 3rd he would be even more unpopular than he is now.....FACTizzle my nizzle 99389[/snapback] He would be if he'd appointed Souness, but if he'd appointed the RIGHT man to take us forward why would FS be unpopular???? I think your memory is showing signs of failure, Dan. We weren't as good when we finished 3rd as when we finished 4th.

???????/ We normally agree but i hardly think selling Bellamy, Aaron Hughes, Andy O Brian and letting Milner out on loan improved the team, as for great signings Owen (when hes fit) and Scott Parker excepted what great signings?. 99386[/snapback] Whooosh!

Ok, how about I explain that it's a team game, you don't just pick your favourite players or leave out those you 'hate'. In a standard 4-4-2 one of the central midfielders must get beyond the strikers, neither Parker nor Emre do this naturally. Rob Lee was strong in the tackle but he still got forward into the box, one of those two has to start doing that. They may well be better footballers than Bowyer, but the balance is wrong. In my opinion, like. 99358[/snapback] While I agree having one of Parker or Emre getting ahead of the strikers would be nice, I think if you remove Parker you are taking away our best player and the only one in the squad who can break up the opositions play and win us back posession and if you remove Emre you take out the one player who can spray the passes around and pick out any other runners. Bowyer compensates for none of this as he cannot pass to save his life and his tackling is awfull (though certainly commited). Add to that his shooting boots seem to have been missplaced this season, so I see no reason to bring him back into the team. 99382[/snapback] Is this any different to people somehow finding it essential that Luque should start a game despite doing nowt so far???? As I say, it's a team game, it's about getting the blend right. It's wrong at the moment.