MrLogic

That's a different argument... You're now trying to argue that money equals success...

I don't quite get what you don't understand when I say that price does not equal quality... You cannot base a players ability solely on his price tag like someone suggested... It's that simple.

I never said that... I said price does not equal quality. It doesn't.

I can use statistics to support my opinion.

Have you heard of Ian Graham? Dafydd Steele? Tim Waskett? Laurie Shaw? Matthew Benham? Do you know what StatDNA is? QlikView? Wyscout?

And your point was what? Shelvey is bad, I have an old car... Yeah screw actual numbers, statistics and facts right...

Wow... I never said that he was or he wasn't suitable for a Howe and that wasn't the argument... Go back to your comment, the one I took issue with, your comment argued that the squad had been run down and that players like Shelvey and Gayle who are 'shot', should not have been given new contracts. That's what I disagreed with. On a side note, you said, not me, that Shelvey was the best midfielder we had 'ability-wise'.

It's a good job that has absolutley nothing to do with what I'm talking about then. I'm talking about Newcastle, you're more than free to join in.

Bruce spent ~£127.17m in three seasons, Benitez spent ~£153.46m in the three seasons before Bruce was appointed. Saying it's a 'dire squad' and saying that 'average players cost upwards of £30m' just isn't true... Is Allan Saint-Maximin less than an average player? He cost ~£16.20m. What about Demarai Gray? He must be awful if he only cost ~£1.70m. Valentino Livramento at ~£5.31m? Can't be a good player. Cristiano Ronaldo? ~£13.50m? Terrible. Price does not equal quality. Incredibly, uninformed, silly argument. Yeah the players are bad because you say they are right? Okay...

Outperformed meaning (without diving in to specific statistics of every CM we've had over the last 6 years) that he has kept his place in the team, under three different managers and as you say he is our best midfielder based on ability (your words). We'll see what happens under Howe but you can't criticise the club for keeping hold of a vital squad member.

You can criticise Shelvey all you want but you can't name a player who has been able to displace him from the starting XI, which he has been apart for ~6 years... He has outperformed those players you mentioned and the ones who you ignored (Diame, Merino, Longstaff...), and yes I think it's quite an accomplishment. Your comment regarding playtime is not only silly (my argument was that he was able to keep those players out of the team) but incorrect, Bentaleb alone played 1021 minutes for Newcastle. As for Willock, his goals were absolutley vital in keeping the club up last season but how many games/minutes did he play? He played less than Bentaleb, he played 979 minutes of football and starting in 11 games, how many/much has he played this season? 605 minutes, with no goals or assists. Pretty much nothing what you said about the squad is true, you can't just say that the club has 'splashed a lot of money', which is contradictory to your claim that the squad has been 'run down', on a 'small handful of players' without providing actual evidence and expect it to be accepted. The club has spent ~£127.15m on the likes of Joelinton, Saint-Maximin, Wilson, Lewis, Fraser, Hendrick, Krafth, Willock and Carroll, that's not a 'small handful' of 'Championship' players. As for the comment that lists players that should be in the Championship, again why? You can't make statements like that without reason... Hendrick is an established Premier League player and has made 146 appearances over the last 6 years, Manquillo has played for Atletico Madrid, Liverpool, Marseille, Newcastle and Sunderland, Hayden (like Shelvey) has been a mainstay in our team since his arrival from Arsenal... I never said that Benitez 'had far less money to work with'... Actually Benitez had a total spend greater than Bruce, despite getting the club relegated, Benitez spent a total of ~£153.46m during his time at the club. And yes I will 'whistle' my view that the club has been poorly coached over the last ~7 years because I believe it has.

In the last three years, since the appointment of Bruce, Newcastle/Ashley has had a net spend of ~£94.66m (and more importantly an actual spend of ~£127.17m) and that's excluding the arrival of any free agents (Fraser, Hendrick and Carroll), that's hardly 'run down' right? You can make criticisms of Shelvey but the fact of the matter is he is our best central midfielder and has been since his arrival in January 2016, he has made 176 appearances for the club, starting for three different coaches (potentially four now) and has outlasted and outperformed the likes of Diame, Colback, Saivet, Barlaser, Anita, Merino, Ki, M.Longstaff, S.Longstaff, Bentaleb, Willock, Hendrick and so on... He was given a contract because he was too valuable to the squad to let go of. As for Gayle, he is seemingly content with sitting on the bench and with a goal contribution (goals and assists) every 184 minutes in the Premier League, he's useful, for context Wilson has a goal contribution every 157 minutes in the Premier League. I don't believe our squad is poor, I believe it's just been poorly coached/managed for the past seven or so years, it wouldn't take much (coaching and/or money) to improve.