Time to start using some dodgy Russian sites?

[Tooj 17]

Learn to quote properly Fish face. Such a brilliant film as The Dark Knight deserves it.

[Happy Face 29]

Lars Ulrich spends time and his creativity on the product, the pennies it costs to make (or the marginal cost of the CD) is very low. Thats irrelevant though, what the marginal cost to NUFC of a seat in the stadium? £0. Is that what the price should reflect?

 

You also seem to assume that its just major labels that are affected. That is wrong.

 

The point about cinema is that if every single film was available free to download it would be difficult for film-makers to make money and produce such (i hear) stunning films like TDK. They hold their scarcity power over these films, thus forcing you to pay to see them, thus helping them invest in more films.

 

If you apply what has happened to the music industry elsewhere the economic system would collapse.

 

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

TDK had the highest grossing opening night of any film in history. Seems to me the model is sustainable despite people downloading.

[ChezGiven 0]

Thing with this is though. I would never have heard much of 90% of the artists I listen to without having acquired it by less than legal means. I can't afford to buy music, I mean I buy a CD or two a month, I go to 7/8 gigs throughout a year, but I can't help but think stopping this would mean anything other than bad news. Personally, at least. Music is something I rely and depend on, if I could afford to buy music, I would, but I can't. But when I can afford to, I do often buy music and try to see artists I listen to a lot live, paying them in sorts in that way. Piracy gets it out there, I love piracy and how it's opened my eyes.

 

Good point regarding familiarisation of new artists.

 

If they then go and see them in concert, then the artists gets something back. The consumer gets to hear their work as much as they want for life, see them live and the artists receive a % of the entry fee for that service.

[ChezGiven 0]

Lars Ulrich spends time and his creativity on the product, the pennies it costs to make (or the marginal cost of the CD) is very low. Thats irrelevant though, what the marginal cost to NUFC of a seat in the stadium? £0. Is that what the price should reflect?

 

You also seem to assume that its just major labels that are affected. That is wrong.

 

The point about cinema is that if every single film was available free to download it would be difficult for film-makers to make money and produce such (i hear) stunning films like TDK. They hold their scarcity power over these films, thus forcing you to pay to see them, thus helping them invest in more films.

 

If you apply what has happened to the music industry elsewhere the economic system would collapse.

 

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

TDK had the highest grossing opening night of any film in history. Seems to me the model is sustainable despite people downloading.

 

You wouldnt be able to access the music anymore as no one would be incentivised to run an internet service

 

I dont get it. You cant see the film online unless you want to see a shit cam version. Thats a threat to the model but not a big enough threat to affect it too much.

[Fop 1]

Lars Ulrich spends time and his creativity on the product, the pennies it costs to make (or the marginal cost of the CD) is very low. Thats irrelevant though, what the marginal cost to NUFC of a seat in the stadium? £0. Is that what the price should reflect?

 

 

The point is that EVERYONE'S rights shouldn't be ridden roughshod over just to "protect" Lars Ulrich 3rd Ferrari.

 

 

(although as usual the artists are rather a canard - much like the recent EU royalties extension, 90+% of the extra cash gain from that extension won't be going to Sir Cliff et al to tide them over in their old age, but straight to record companies that own the royalty rights. The problem with PR is that as soon as you know how it works it doesn't work ).

 

 

 

 

If you apply what has happened to the music industry elsewhere the economic system would collapse.

 

Complete used car salesman hocum.

 

There's very few other industries that compare to the music industries, and those that do usually have the same issues of strangle holds on the consumers.

 

It's not like you can "pirate copy" iron ore, you can steal it, but it is a finite resource. Music is not in that context at all.

[Happy Face 29]

You wouldnt be able to access the music anymore as no one would be incentivised to run an internet service

 

Your assumption seems to be that no-one wants to pay anything for any of their music. But that's not the case.

 

I dont get it. You cant see the film online unless you want to see a shit cam version. Thats a threat to the model but not a big enough threat to affect it too much.

 

 

Exactly. Anyone sitting through a CAM Version is clearly besotted and will be seeing it at the cinema 14 times, buying the Blueray and getting themself a Joker mask to boot.

[Fop 1]

Righto Fop, I'll let the economics profession know that they got it wrong. You're a fucking wanker for using knowledge of what i do to score points but dont have the bottle to say what you do yourself, thats not a sign of defeat thats a sign that i think you're a wanker.

 

 

Like I said name calling is an absolute sign that I'm right.

 

If you actually look at the economic of the download industry you can see for yourself that I'm right, volume is where it's at, bigger total profits and cheaper music for the consumer (very similar to DvD sales in recent years in fact).

 

 

Telling me how the drugs industry works

 

Demented

 

I know how it works, it's just funny that a lot of people in a certain job won't admit the iffy things about their field, bizarre, but you see it a lot.

[Tooj 17]

You wouldnt be able to access the music anymore as no one would be incentivised to run an internet service

 

Your assumption seems to be that no-one wants to pay anything for any of their music. But that's not the case.

 

I dont get it. You cant see the film online unless you want to see a shit cam version. Thats a threat to the model but not a big enough threat to affect it too much.

 

 

Exactly. Anyone sitting through a CAM Version is clearly besotted and will be seeing it at the cinema 14 times, buying the Blueray and getting themself a Joker mask to boot.

[Park Life 71]

You wouldnt be able to access the music anymore as no one would be incentivised to run an internet service

 

Your assumption seems to be that no-one wants to pay anything for any of their music. But that's not the case.

 

I dont get it. You cant see the film online unless you want to see a shit cam version. Thats a threat to the model but not a big enough threat to affect it too much.

 

 

Exactly. Anyone sitting through a CAM Version is clearly besotted and will be seeing it at the cinema 14 times, buying the Blueray and getting themself a Joker mask to boot.

 

I paid £3 for the radiohead which I thought was a fair price.

[ChezGiven 0]

No Fop, every single company that makes money does so because they hold scarcity power. I'm not going to argue about it anymore, i suggest you do some reading. Start with Adam Smith and finish with why dotcom companies failed.

[Park Life 71]

No Fop, every single company that makes money does so because they hold scarcity power. I'm not going to argue about it anymore, i suggest you do some reading. Start with Adam Smith and finish with why dotcom companies failed.

 

You delivered that speech yet rasta?

[Happy Face 29]

You wouldnt be able to access the music anymore as no one would be incentivised to run an internet service

 

Your assumption seems to be that no-one wants to pay anything for any of their music. But that's not the case.

 

I dont get it. You cant see the film online unless you want to see a shit cam version. Thats a threat to the model but not a big enough threat to affect it too much.

 

 

Exactly. Anyone sitting through a CAM Version is clearly besotted and will be seeing it at the cinema 14 times, buying the Blueray and getting themself a Joker mask to boot.

 

I paid £3 for the radiohead which I thought was a fair price.

 

I paid nowt

 

Just because their site was horribly slow though.

[ChezGiven 0]

Righto Fop, I'll let the economics profession know that they got it wrong. You're a fucking wanker for using knowledge of what i do to score points but dont have the bottle to say what you do yourself, thats not a sign of defeat thats a sign that i think you're a wanker.

 

 

Like I said name calling is an absolute sign that I'm right.

 

If you actually look at the economic of the download industry you can see for yourself that I'm right, volume is where it's at, bigger total profits and cheaper music for the consumer (very similar to DvD sales in recent years in fact).

 

 

Telling me how the drugs industry works

 

Demented

 

I know how it works, it's just funny that a lot of people in a certain job won't admit the iffy things about their field, bizarre, but you see it a lot.

 

As i said, demented to think you know how something as complicated as that works when you demonstrate time and again that you dont.

 

A sure sign someone is losing an argument is when they start making up things like i wont admit there is iffy things about my field. Where did i say that? If you can see it in this thread i might re-consider your wanker status.

 

So, there are now more profits in the music industry are there? Demented mate, utterly demented.

[Fop 1]

You wouldnt be able to access the music anymore as no one would be incentivised to run an internet service

 

Your assumption seems to be that no-one wants to pay anything for any of their music. But that's not the case.

 

I dont get it. You cant see the film online unless you want to see a shit cam version. Thats a threat to the model but not a big enough threat to affect it too much.

 

 

Exactly. Anyone sitting through a CAM Version is clearly besotted and will be seeing it at the cinema 14 times, buying the Blueray and getting themself a Joker mask to boot.

 

I paid £3 for the radiohead which I thought was a fair price.

 

That didn't do too bad considering the lack of overheads, and especially as it wasn't a CD quality download.

 

 

And they've still done well out of genuine CD sales to boot. Win Win.

[Golden Glory 0]

I paid nothing too. I don't have a credit/debit card or anything like that. I have limited cash and parents to plead with

[ChezGiven 0]

You wouldnt be able to access the music anymore as no one would be incentivised to run an internet service

 

Your assumption seems to be that no-one wants to pay anything for any of their music. But that's not the case.

 

I dont get it. You cant see the film online unless you want to see a shit cam version. Thats a threat to the model but not a big enough threat to affect it too much.

 

 

Exactly. Anyone sitting through a CAM Version is clearly besotted and will be seeing it at the cinema 14 times, buying the Blueray and getting themself a Joker mask to boot.

 

So the film industry retains the scarcity power over its core product. If the DVD rip quality version was made available, how many people would NOT go to the cinema. Not everyone is like Jonny man!

[Fop 1]

As i said, demented to think you know how something as complicated as that works when you demonstrate time and again that you dont.

 

I notice you've still never commented on the drug development issue (the commercial need to develop new drugs for the sake of it).

 

 

A sure sign someone is losing an argument is when they start making up things like i wont admit there is iffy things about my field. Where did i say that? If you can see it in this thread i might re-consider your wanker status.

 

So, there are now more profits in the music industry are there? Demented mate, utterly demented.

 

You're just insulting and wandering now. We both know why.

 

 

 

No Fop, every single company that makes money does so because they hold scarcity power. I'm not going to argue about it anymore, i suggest you do some reading. Start with Adam Smith and finish with why dotcom companies failed.

Like a said 20th century thinking when it comes to the internet and music (and maybe other types of media).

 

I know that will be your Holy Grail due to the field you work in, and that as such you'll never admit otherwise, but it doesn't mean that it is everyone's Holy Grail.

[Tooj 17]

You wouldnt be able to access the music anymore as no one would be incentivised to run an internet service

 

Your assumption seems to be that no-one wants to pay anything for any of their music. But that's not the case.

 

I dont get it. You cant see the film online unless you want to see a shit cam version. Thats a threat to the model but not a big enough threat to affect it too much.

 

 

Exactly. Anyone sitting through a CAM Version is clearly besotted and will be seeing it at the cinema 14 times, buying the Blueray and getting themself a Joker mask to boot.

 

So the film industry retains the scarcity power over its core product. If the DVD rip quality version was made available, how many people would NOT go to the cinema. Not everyone is like Jonny man!

 

I am yet to own a Joker mask yet btw, I emphasise the word yet though.

[Fop 1]

Nor does the desperate need to retain "scarcity power" give any industry the "right" to rampage over the public's general rights and freedoms.

 

Like I said every "victory" the recording industry has in this context is another step in losing their war.

[Happy Face 29]

You wouldnt be able to access the music anymore as no one would be incentivised to run an internet service

 

Your assumption seems to be that no-one wants to pay anything for any of their music. But that's not the case.

 

I dont get it. You cant see the film online unless you want to see a shit cam version. Thats a threat to the model but not a big enough threat to affect it too much.

 

 

Exactly. Anyone sitting through a CAM Version is clearly besotted and will be seeing it at the cinema 14 times, buying the Blueray and getting themself a Joker mask to boot.

 

So the film industry retains the scarcity power over its core product. If the DVD rip quality version was made available, how many people would NOT go to the cinema. Not everyone is like Jonny man!

 

But they don't. That would be crazy.

 

That's why I could never see why you made the Analogy.

[ChezGiven 0]

As i said, demented to think you know how something as complicated as that works when you demonstrate time and again that you dont.

 

I notice you've still never commented on the drug development issue (the commercial need to develop new drugs for the sake of it).

 

 

A sure sign someone is losing an argument is when they start making up things like i wont admit there is iffy things about my field. Where did i say that? If you can see it in this thread i might re-consider your wanker status.

 

So, there are now more profits in the music industry are there? Demented mate, utterly demented.

 

You're just insulting and wandering now. We both know why.

 

 

 

No Fop, every single company that makes money does so because they hold scarcity power. I'm not going to argue about it anymore, i suggest you do some reading. Start with Adam Smith and finish with why dotcom companies failed.

Like a said 20th century thinking when it comes to the internet and music (and maybe other types of media).

 

I know that will be your Holy Grail due to the field you work in, and that as such you'll never admit otherwise, but it doesn't mean that it is everyone's Holy Grail.

 

I never commented on the DD issue as it was not part of the debate about the NHS and you were trying to steer it their to make some shit ill-informed political point that didnt relate to the debate. I also dont want to engage you in that debate, even though i went to Brussels yesterday to do just that with members of the European Commission. That debate is way above your head and i cant be arsed to start at the beginning and point out all the stuff you dont know. It would take me weeks. If you say what you do for a living i might consider engaging with you on it. However, you'll probably regret it.

 

This is about music and copyrights.

[ChezGiven 0]

You wouldnt be able to access the music anymore as no one would be incentivised to run an internet service

 

Your assumption seems to be that no-one wants to pay anything for any of their music. But that's not the case.

 

I dont get it. You cant see the film online unless you want to see a shit cam version. Thats a threat to the model but not a big enough threat to affect it too much.

 

 

Exactly. Anyone sitting through a CAM Version is clearly besotted and will be seeing it at the cinema 14 times, buying the Blueray and getting themself a Joker mask to boot.

 

So the film industry retains the scarcity power over its core product. If the DVD rip quality version was made available, how many people would NOT go to the cinema. Not everyone is like Jonny man!

 

But they don't. That would be crazy.

 

That's why I could never see why you made the Analogy.

 

Because they dont release the DVD, no one can rip it and put it up online. Access to the service / product is restricted and hence they make money. Thats why i brought it up, to contrast with the music industry situation.

[Golden Glory 0]

Why does he relate everything to Chez's job? :|

 

Although I personally would say that if for example all music albums were set at £1 each, I would buy every single album that I listen to, £8-£10 is too much for me personally to make a disposable purchase. Hence why I remove the risk of having money ill-spent and download it. I'd be more than happy to spend £15-20 a month in that way, than the odd £10 I do spend. I'd say that a lot more people would do this, and if your 80% figure Chez, is accurate and could be used as a ball-park figure for the entire market, the revenue would be similar, but I'd guess that there'd be a lot more purchase, from other untapped consumer-bases, they could make the same as they do now, but appease the consumer at the same time. Surely that's win-win, because they're never going to be able to successfull charge all extortionately as they do.

[Fop 1]

I never commented on the DD issue as it was not part of the debate about the NHS and you were trying to steer it their to make some shit ill-informed political point that didnt relate to the debate. I also dont want to engage you in that debate, even though i went to Brussels yesterday to do just that with members of the European Commission. That debate is way above your head and i cant be arsed to start at the beginning and point out all the stuff you dont know. It would take me weeks. If you say what you do for a living i might consider engaging with you on it. However, you'll probably regret it.

 

You never commented on it because you know, like me, that there's a lot more to do with retaining profit than need in much drug development.

 

At the end of the day the drug industry is terrified that the public at large will get wise to their methods and reasons for doing what they do.

 

Like I said the cervical cancer immunisation program was a wonderful example of that industry PR and astroturfing.

 

 

 

 

This is about music and copyrights.

 

Indeed and how it is will never work doing illegal things (such as installing root-kit without notice, or crushing privacy rights) in a desperate attempt to hold onto an outmoded business model that time has passed by.

[Happy Face 29]

So the film industry retains the scarcity power over its core product. If the DVD rip quality version was made available, how many people would NOT go to the cinema. Not everyone is like Jonny man!

 

But they don't. That would be crazy.

 

That's why I could never see why you made the Analogy.

 

Because they dont release the DVD, no one can rip it and put it up online. Access to the service / product is restricted and hence they make money. Thats why i brought it up, to contrast with the music industry situation.

 

I see that they're contrastable, but not comparable.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Happy Face