Problem Child

Nothing to do with "bad loser" mate. There are people on here who's jobs will go because of this. My mrs. is one of them. Nothing personal but so many of you have bleated on in this thread about voting for parties because of the greater good and what they do for others but as soon as you all actually have to make sacrifices ( for the greater good) you suddenly start going all Tory and thinking of yourselves????? Strange that! What kind of sacrifices are you talking about?

Is there a record for how many times a person can be wrong in one thread If there is you'll hold it

Enjoy it while it lasts pork brain. By the time the next election comes around the Conservatives and the LibDems will be totally discredited. I give it a year before the cracks start showing, two before they’ve torn themselves apart.

Silly cow. Are Sky News employees on a tory win bonus? Despite my reservations about a LibLab collation it’d be worth it to see the Tory press lose it completely.

The whole thing is a disgrace. They should agree a budget and then jump off a cliff. The FPTP system has been shown up for the antiquated pile of shit it is, a system under which real change will never happen because it’s all about vested interest. What’s best for the country hardly comes into it. All they have to do is cut public sector wages by ten perecert across the board, increase the higher rate tax bands a bit and tighten up on tax avoidance by the business community. Spread the pain around instead of indulging in this never ending them and us shite. Why we have to go through all this crap is beyond me.

The biggest threat to Ashley’s plans to get his money back is the supporters. If we ever say ‘fuck you’ en masse and stop handing over our money he’s up shit creek. The disinformation creates enough division within the ranks to stop us ever calling his bluff.

Perhaps it’s what wasn’t said that says the most. Over a thousand words about a five year plan and not one sentence about how or if they intended to repay the clubs debts. I don’t think this statement was badly written, more that it was written to provoke a debate about what the fuck no new capital outlay means so more awkward questions get lost in the maelstrom. There’s no fucking way some money won’t be made available to Chris Hughton. It won’t be much but after this statement a £5m transfer budget will be portrayed as another benevolent gesture. He’s playing us for fools. Ashley isn’t stupid, he’s a cold calculating billionaire who likes a gamble and if this statement is a PR gaff it’s a deliberate PR gaff.

Common sense says you’re right. Experience says anything is possible in the crazy world of Mike Ashley.

Nothing that comes out of the club should be taken at face value, and as always this nonsense is designed to spread confusion. That’s why they use pseudo technical terms like no new capital outlay, instead of no additional money for new signings, or a sell to buy policy. It’s also why they’ve made it clear they won’t talk to anybody about anything. It leaves everybody floundering around trying to guess what the fuck is going on. Arguing amongst themselves while NUFC sails inexorably towards nowhere. Its classic divide and rule. That said if there is no investment in the squad no amount of confusion will shield Ashley from the storm that’s brewing. We’ll also find out if Hughton is really a good manager with ambition and integrity, or just a puppet who got lucky. My guess is Ahsley is looking to offload the high earners and reinvest some/all of the money this brings in on new players on low wages. Gamble on staying up and use the extra TV money to start paying off the club’s debts. In some ways it’s not the worst idea in the world, but would be a huge gamble.

One more thing about public debt. If you exclude countries like Greenland that are very sparsely populated every country in the world owes money, Even Saudi Arabia has of a debt of 20% of GDP. So who is all this money owed to?

That was Mike Ashley's rationale about NUFC plc the January before we got relegated. You're wrong about both. Leaving nufc to one side, please enlighten me as to how we save enough money to get out of this hideous debt without cuts. Raise taxation, which brings its own problems but has advantages over job cuts that I mentioned earlier. It’s also spreads the pain around instead of shitting on a minority who are in no way responsible for the banking collapse. It wouldn’t be fun but it would be fair, if not as fair as ceasing the assets of the bankers who got us into this mess. Public sector debt currently stands at £844b, or about 67% of GDP. The USA debt is 85% of GDP, Italy 115%, Japan 220%. In fact of all the developed countries the UK debt as a percentage of GDP is the lowest. This isn’t to say it isn’t a problem but it’s worth remembering before we had to bail out the banks our national debt was 44% of GDP. So for the sake of argument let’s say we need to cut our debt by £400b to get back to the kind of levels that caused no concern just a few years back. This could be achieved in five years by increasing the total tax yield by about 17%. I’m not suggesting the debt problem can be solved through taxation alone, but I thought it was worth providing some context. Is there a single tax increase in the Conservative manifesto? we will get all you say above AND savage cuts, unfortunately. Don't forget to add into your figures the billions each year just to keep up the payments. All the parties have being deceitful about what is to come which is why I would make all the fuckers agree a budget that will do the job. It’s a question of balance. At a time when services will have to be cut and taxes raised the Conservatives want to reduce government revenues by £6b by increasing the inheritance tax threshold to £1m. It‘s irrefutable evidence they have their priorities all fucked up. It’s might also be of interest to know that personal debt in the UK is £1460b. All of which I would assume is owed to the very banks we have just bailed out. It fucking stinks.

That was Mike Ashley's rationale about NUFC plc the January before we got relegated. You're wrong about both. Leaving nufc to one side, please enlighten me as to how we save enough money to get out of this hideous debt without cuts. Raise taxation, which brings its own problems but has advantages over job cuts that I mentioned earlier. It’s also spreads the pain around instead of shitting on a minority who are in no way responsible for the banking collapse. It wouldn’t be fun but it would be fair, if not as fair as ceasing the assets of the bankers who got us into this mess. Public sector debt currently stands at £844b, or about 67% of GDP. The USA debt is 85% of GDP, Italy 115%, Japan 220%. In fact of all the developed countries the UK debt as a percentage of GDP is the lowest. This isn’t to say it isn’t a problem but it’s worth remembering before we had to bail out the banks our national debt was 44% of GDP. So for the sake of argument let’s say we need to cut our debt by £400b to get back to the kind of levels that caused no concern just a few years back. This could be achieved in five years by increasing the total tax yield by about 17%. I’m not suggesting the debt problem can be solved through taxation alone, but I thought it was worth providing some context. Is there a single tax increase in the Conservative manifesto?

So how do you know that then CT? I'd like your reponse to my accustation that you are no less ignorant than me, and would like to know why you have been acting the twat, if that's OK. It's just a fact you'll have to get used too. You post too much without little thought for facts or knowledge of the subject. You do it all the time. I think even today you agreed with prob child that libs and labour should try and stop the Tories stupid budget? Do you know the details of it? Has Dave been on the phone? You are one of these sheep who can only ever see one side of an argument. You don't quite understand politics. You try and take the moral high ground constantly and never see the hypocrisy in your views. Everything Tory is evil... Cameron must be Evil too It's understandable from a hyped up militant student but shouldn't you have grown up by now. Why not arrange some proper dinner parties with your wifes legal (and probably Tory) high flyer friends and just listen to the grown ups for a bit. Has he been on the phone to you? The Conservatives policies aren’t clear but if you scratch beneath the sound bites what you find is the same old principles. Tax breaks for private business, less support for the disadvantaged and jingoistic tub thumping. It didn’t work last time and it won’t work this time. The only difference is that this time they won’t be able to sell off the nation’s assets to hide the damage being inflicted on the foundations of our society. Bahhhh. I assume you mean the gold The truth is that the problem with most labour supporters is that if you scratch between the surface they know very little about their own party never mind the Tory party. I’m not a labour supporter. Sorry if this doesn’t fit into your blinkered view of the world.

Here’s a question for you CT. Raising the Inheritance Tax threshold from £300k to £1m will take an estimated £1b a year out of the treasuries coffers. How many nurses would have to lose their jobs to make up this deficit?

Cameron has buckets more integrity than Blair. A con lib pact should work without either side having to give up principles. Most commentators realise the next genera election will not be too far away so it is very reasonable for each party to say they'll put the really disagreeable stuff to one side and mainly concentrate on the here and now of beginning to tackle some of our serious problems, mainly debt. Things like Trident and immigration are not a priority in the next 12 months. Also I might add that the immediate disagreeable stuff that can't be put aside is Cameron's 'emergency budget' on immediate cuts. I can't see how the Lib Dems can credibly agree to that. you really are stupid. How the fuck do you seriously expect Uk plc to get out of the hideous debt we are in without cuts. Are you really so fucking stupid? Did you think the fairies where going to come along. Honestly, it really does amaze me the stupidity of some of the stuff you say. Please tell me how labour would get us out of this without savage cuts? Would they just do it in nasty conservative areas? Wake up? FFS, read what I said - IMMEDIATE cuts while we are barely in positve economic growth. Of course cuts will have to come, along with tax rises, but only after the economy is growing. The ONLY way to cut the deficit is through economic growth. You tit. There’s also the question of what you cut. Axing large numbers of low paid jobs is counterproductive as a large amount of the money saved comes straight back out of the treasury in the form of unemployment benefit, council tax relief, free prescriptions etc. In the current economic situation it should be about cutting out non essential stuff like public art projects, subsidies for the ballet, ID cards, the NHS computer system, the London Olympics, and all the pointless advisory bodies. There’s also Trident, the House of Lords, the civil list, council executives on £150k+, BBC 3 and 4. We could also pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq.

So how do you know that then CT? I'd like your reponse to my accustation that you are no less ignorant than me, and would like to know why you have been acting the twat, if that's OK. It's just a fact you'll have to get used too. You post too much without little thought for facts or knowledge of the subject. You do it all the time. I think even today you agreed with prob child that libs and labour should try and stop the Tories stupid budget? Do you know the details of it? Has Dave been on the phone? You are one of these sheep who can only ever see one side of an argument. You don't quite understand politics. You try and take the moral high ground constantly and never see the hypocrisy in your views. Everything Tory is evil... Cameron must be Evil too It's understandable from a hyped up militant student but shouldn't you have grown up by now. Why not arrange some proper dinner parties with your wifes legal (and probably Tory) high flyer friends and just listen to the grown ups for a bit. Has he been on the phone to you? The Conservatives policies aren’t clear but if you scratch beneath the sound bites what you find is the same old principles. Tax breaks for private business, less support for the disadvantaged and jingoistic tub thumping. It didn’t work last time and it won’t work this time. The only difference is that this time they won’t be able to sell off the nation’s assets to hide the damage being inflicted on the foundations of our society. Bahhhh.

If true... “there are conflicting reports about the conversation, with one senior Lib Dem source saying Mr Brown had ranted at Mr Clegg and another telling the BBC it had been a perfectly amicable conversation” BBC Sounds like the LibDems are split on what to do. I think the best option would be for Brown to stand down and let the Conservatives try being a minority government. The opposition could then vote down their stupid emergency budget and some kind of common sense would have to be applied instead of the current self serving crap.

You mean the national insurance rise for those earning over £20k? Not exactly the hardest hit group. But yeah, getting more money from the rich would be a good idea. May I propose raising income tax to 50% for those earning over £150k? Now, if only someone in politics would try and implement that idea. The so called jobs tax. Sums the Tories up really. The bleat on endlessly about how a small increase in NI is going to force business to axe thousands of jobs, but at the same time want to axe thousands of public sector jobs. All of which shows that it’s not jobs they care about but the profit margins of private business, who coincidently are the same people who funded their election campaign.

The jobs have long gone, the roads are fucked and the Taxi trade like most trades has suffered! That is why Labour has just been kicked out. But they haven’t been kicked out have they? The electorate has voted, and what they’ve said is we're not that keen on The Labour Party but don’t have much confidence in the Conservatives either. Why is that CT, why have the Tory's failed to convince enough people that they’re a better option than the Labour Party?

To be accurate it’s 36% of the half the electorate, which is about 18% of the country. It's hardly the ringing endorsement Cameron is making it out to be. After 15 years of any government and an election in the midst of a global financial meltdown the opposition would normally stroll to a majority. This result really is a bit of an embarrassment for the Conservatives. If that's the case it's a monstrous kick in the nads for Labour Not really. After fifteen years of the last Tory government the electorate deserted them in huge numbers and Blair came to power with a 100 plus majority. Either Labour have done a far better job than the last tory government, or Cameron has provided an unpalatable alternative. Labour under Blair offered fundamental change in their approach to politics having learned the lesson of '92 when they failed worse than the Tories have here. New Labour was a marketing push that sold the notion of a more centrist Labour option that was far more palatable to floating voters. Cameron has done nowt in this election but say "what's your fucking alternative?" and sit back with a snide face on assuming people would flock from Labour. They are no different to what they were in the 80s/90s so why would the electorate choose to go back to that? Depends how you look at it though, Cameron's been a disgrace if the most important thing is to take power, but if sticking to party principals is more important then he might have JUST stolen it and managed to do so. The base will love him for that wheras the Labour socialists were outraged with Blair. I look at this way. This should have been was one of the easiest elections for an opposition to win in 30 years, but Cameron has failed miserably. It doesn’t bode well for his ability to run the country if he gets his hands on power.

It certainly is.

To be accurate it’s 36% of the half the electorate, which is about 18% of the country. It's hardly the ringing endorsement Cameron is making it out to be. After 15 years of any government and an election in the midst of a global financial meltdown the opposition would normally stroll to a majority. This result really is a bit of an embarrassment for the Conservatives. From what I can see, the share of the vote is this: Con 39.1% Lab 30.3% LD 22.5% Others 8% Going by your figures of half (wasn't the turnout much higher than that?) Then we can deduce that around 20% of the country backed Cameron, 15% backed Brown and 11% backed Clegg. Ringing endorsment or not, it's clear the country as a whole preferred the idea of Cameron to Brown. I’ve checked, turnout was about 60% not the 50% reported last night. Not that it matters much. Out of every 10 voters 4 voted for Cameron and 3 voted for Brown. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that slightly more people prefer the idea of Cameron to Brown, which is why we’ve ended up with a hung parliament.

To be accurate it’s 36% of the half the electorate, which is about 18% of the country. It's hardly the ringing endorsement Cameron is making it out to be. After 15 years of any government and an election in the midst of a global financial meltdown the opposition would normally stroll to a majority. This result really is a bit of an embarrassment for the Conservatives. If that's the case it's a monstrous kick in the nads for Labour Not really. After fifteen years of the last Tory government the electorate deserted them in huge numbers and Blair came to power with a 100 plus majority. Either Labour have done a far better job than the last tory government, or Cameron has provided an unpalatable alternative.

To be accurate it’s 36% of the half the electorate, which is about 18% of the country. It's hardly the ringing endorsement Cameron is making it out to be. After 15 years of any government and an election in the midst of a global financial meltdown the opposition would normally stroll to a majority. This result really is a bit of an embarrassment for the Conservatives.

If you really believe that you should support the Lib Dems. Sounds like wooly bullshit to me like, but that's not to say we couldn't develop some form of PR that works well, other countries manage it. PR has many benefits. Every vote counts so parliament actually reflects public opinion, for as long as I can remember we’ve been governed by a party the majority of the country didn’t vote for. Under FPTP the views of people who live in marginal seats carry a grossly disproportionate weight, which is wrong whichever way you look at it. PR would also protects us from obviously bad or extreme policy getting pushed through parliament, and it provides a proper mechanism for getting on with things when the national vote is split three ways like we have now.