The6Bells

2008? The socialists are a little bit too pissed off about their current lot even now for that to be even remotely true. What's "Red" Ed going to do if he gets in exactly? He'll not build a single council house. He'll not repeal a single union law. He'll not nationalise a single industry. He'll not reshape the tax regime in any way that will be remotely noticeable. He'll tackle the defecit by demanding 17% cuts instead of 20%. Probably the only major way he'll depart from Thatcherism, is to relegate Britain to a second rank don't rock the boat member of the increasingly federalist EU.

It's aimed at the generic Thatcher hater, who in my experience have formed their opinions of her based on a core set of a few touchtsones, that funnily enough, all turn out to be bullcrap when you do the most basic of research and y'know, start to operate like an independent individual with a free will, rather than a socialist sheep * Sinking the Belgrano was an unjustified war crime (nope, even the Argie admiral thought this was bullcrap) * She supported appartheid (nope, unless you want to ignore the black African leaders of the time) * She decimated manufacturing (nope, Parky's pic claims "by half", for instance, total and uttler bollocks, yet he's the fool talking about 'propaganda') * She closed all the mines (nope - the best yet, the last deep mine closed this year, and Callaghan closed more than she ever did) * She faced down the unions (not a lie, just really hilarious it's even brought up as a bad thing, as it's probably the biggest single reason she was elected for, and like it or lump it, you don't get elected in this country if you're only supported by the upper and middle class) By the way, is there anyone here who can personally testify to one of the other biggest whoppers, the 'destroyed' communities canard. Speaking for myself, well, there's a former pit slag heap 300 yards from my back gate, and there's at least three others within a short walk. I'm fucking ecstatic I wasn't expected to go down one. Yet my community is thriving, still largely white, still largely working class, the housing is not run down or decrepit. And I still drink in the working mens club my parents and grandparents generations did. What these people mean when they say, destroyed a community, what they really mean, they changed the employment profile. Well, perhaps maybe next time, people won't be so stupid as to create entire communities around a single industry. Never forget, 300 years ago most of these communites never even bloody existed, and when they did spring up, it was at the expense of people leaving the countryside. No doubt back then the remaining village muggles were bitching and moaning about how George Stephenson et al were destroying communities. Did the government of the day pour billions into the local farmers welfare? Give them all a new scyth and milk pale out of taxpayers pockets? Did they fuck.

The thing that gets me most is that people have had, what?, nearly 30 years to find out for themselves the basic facts about touchstone Thatcher issues like the Belgrano, plenty of time in which to judge whether she is a 'brutal and heartless war criminal', yet people still talk utter bollocks about it to this day. If people want to be taken seriously in politics and get their deceased beliefs back into the mainstream, then they really need to wake up realise that if you want to know the truth about someone like Thatcher, you don't start and finish your research by reading the posts of a moron like Morrissey.

The tone and nature is one of jubilation and vitriol, that's just obvious and isn't really open to any misinterpretation at all. Go look for yourself, they're not exactly hard to understand, their views of the world are as black and white as our strip. Although that might be affected by their rather fascist approach to forum moderation.

This is brilliant. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscience/100211373/do-the-swp-and-the-hard-left-hate-margaret-thatcher-for-same-reason-that-liverpool-fans-hate-sir-alex-ferguson/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter Thatcher haters and liverpool fans - two peas of the same deluded self-pitying pod.

A rare moment of insight from a liverpool fan "The fact she had died is no cause for celebration. She's got away with it. She's done a jimmy Saville." Shame it seems to have been ignored within literally hundreds of yahoos and yipees (well, stronger than that, but you get the idea)

He's obviously unware that in Britain even the Labour party is now "racist", if that's his definition.

Bit of a cheek for a man of Brand's character to be questioning whether she was a good mother. Has he met them? Has any of the haters read, seen, heard or experienced first hand anything that would justify them making claims about how good a mother she was. If Marc's penchant for gun rinning in his adult life is to be commented on here, what does the fact that he was a theiving drug addict say about how a good a mother he had? As for the rest, he rather dissappointingly seems to have swallowed a lot of the socialist propaganda without any kind of critical analysis. Stuff like the Belgrano and Apartheid in the end do just come down to basic historical fact, but just how does one go about proving/disproving that a government taught that "suffering is deserved and shameful" anyway? Maybe just a tiny bit of projection going on there methinks.

And now I am wondering if www.goatporn.com would actually attract more clicks per day than www.socialistaction.com, even in these straightened times. Maybe a good test to see if a movement really has reached complete obscurity.

That site has got both David Cameron and Ed Milliband to give them interviews. Probably even change a policy here and there. www.socialistaction.com were fuming (btw don't click that link, I literally just made it up, I have no idea if it goes anywhere, so don't blame me if it's goat porn or something)

Ah no, not just finish a tea or want to coordinate your break with mates, that's reasonable. But I am talking about people who would literally leave a job at the precise second, and not return until the precise second. And wouldn't even answer a work related question if they were 'on a break'. And they would also adjust the speed with which they worked, and yes, even the speed at which they waddled their fat asses along the shop floor, in order to acheive this level of extreme selfishness. It sometimes didn't even matter if that left the plant in an unsafe condition. As for a statement like "You don't get holidays and rights etc because your companies shareholders care, you get them through historical agreements won by those unions you hate.", well, come on, that's being a bit revisionist, and then some. The concept of workers rights predates the concept of unions by about 2 centuries. Given the fact the only lawmakers around at the time were most definitely not the working class, just who the bollocks do you think were behind this drive to improve the lot of the workers? Unions played a part later on, but for much of this early history they caused as much death and suffering as any of the agreements they secured saved. By the time of the 18th Century, unions were not the sole protectors of rights, and to claim otherwise is ludicrous, and ignores the existence of people like Bourneville and many other enlightened industrialists (which, by the way, were just a modern version of the patrons and guild masters that came before them). The Liberals did as much for latter developments than the unions, or the eventual Labour Party, easily. By the 1970s, they had no role at all, not in the sense that without them there would be no way for workers rights to be protected and advanced, whilst also allowing businesses to actually operate. Finally, it doesn't even make sense to talk about holidays and rights in the same breath as union agreements in the modern era, they are two different things. I had rights and holidays in that factory, and that had absolutely nothing to do with the modern day union's agreements or activities. It actually made me laugh when I was able to arrange an ad hoc day off here and there in a way that went way beyond their statutory obligations, but which they did because there was an atmoshpere of mutual benefit and respect between us and our section of management because we worked in a way that benefitted the company as much as looked out for our own interests, something the idiot fitters were unble to do because of their cast iron agreement they had bravely secured with their part of the management. Pillocks. I also never even had the heart to tell them I was being paid more than they were too at my age. Despite the management having conned them into thinking they still used 'grades' in our section, in reality you got paid what you were worth in a free market. Which, for a lazy fat fitter it turns out, wasn't much.

There's people on here with 25 or 30 thousand posts. How the fuck does that happen? Can't wrap my head around it. You'd have to be brain dead once you reach that level of post on a football forum, surely. I've seen nothing in here that would keep anyone interested for that length of time. It's more boring in here than mumsnet frankly. Still, Morrissey? Yes, twat indeed.

Ah, you're too kind. That's something that's all too rare in old school socialists, genuine gratitude for being helped to understand the realities of the world they live in. Too many of them are just happy to bowl along believing any old crap they've been told or read about the evil Maggie.

I'm talking to anyone who wants to listen. Is that you? Can you handle the truth? Or are you one of the people upset at having your hatefest interupted by reality?

And that reminds me, here's some gold about the milk snatcher bullshit. What is little known is that Mrs Thatcher actually opposed ending school milk and was forced into the position by the Treasury. She was so upset by the public response that she considered quitting politics. Free milk began in 1940 to ensure that young children had strong bones and teeth at a time of food shortages. In 2010, Anne Milton, a Health minister, had proposed ending the £50m-a-year Nursery Milk scheme, describing it as ineffective and expensive. She wrote: "There is no evidence that it improves the health of very young children yet the cost of delivering it is increasing significantly. We think the scheme is out of step with the principle that public funding should focus on the most needy." In five years the annual cost of the scheme in England has almost doubled to £50m. Imagine that eh. If the socialists had put just that little bit more pressure on her, she might have quit altogether. Over a lie. In defence of a scheme that is wasting public money on something introduced to combat wartime food shortages but was still being maintained 30 years later for no benefit to kids and in no way directed at the needy. Socialism in action. You really can't make this shit up, yet it is the reality of what underpins what Maggie haters really believe. Idiots. I wonder how many nurses £50m a year funds?

I sense an undercurrent of intimidation being directed toward the uncomfortably bright light of reality. Maybe socialism isn't as dead as I thought. Maybe it's next generation has eschewed the corridors of power for the basements of the internet, lashing out at the world while munching on celerey and listening to depressing one dimensional soul suckers like Morrissey. Come on guys, out the basement. Come join us in the real world. Despite what your dad told you while he was scaring you with bedtime stories about Thatcher Thacther the Milk Snatcher, there's still plenty of jobs out here, even for the likes of you.

Funny. I'm guessing you don't need to read any books, you just switch on the antenna that comes out the top of your tin foil hat.

Obviously they're obsessed and bitter, but are there any redeeming qualities in all the beaten socialists that have been hating on Thatcher yesterday and today? Me, what have I got to be bitter about? She helped people like me, but then again, I do have a sense of personal responsibilty and was willing to make my own way in the world without signing up to a poxy union or crying about how nobody had kept a steel mill open so I could get a job in it. I rather liked the fact that once I got a job, my taxes weren't being thrown away subsidising dying industries just to keep lazy socialists in beer and fags.

Just trying to point out in a humerous way how the statement made no sense. You want to dismiss the person's acheivements, yet then questoin why their death is received differently to the average joe.

Holy crap. So, you not only had the chance to work in a modern car factory, with all the benefits of not having to fear of dying in an underground fire or being buried alive or mangled into a conveyor, you also had other job offers as well? If you've got it bad, I'd hate to see someone who was really down on their luck due to Thatcher's reforms. I'll tell you a funny story though. I've never worked in Nissan, but I did work in a large manufacturing factory at one time. It was quite hilarious to see just what unions could acheive, even with modern day laws. Even though most breakdowns of the various plant required both mechanical and electrical attention, the mechanics were all work to rule unionised pricks, who wouldn't lift a spanner a second after their mandatory tea break time. Consequently, that department was basically permanently staffed with fat balding men in their 50s, who only ever talked about their retirement plans. The electricians however, being a relatively new introduction that came in after the worst excesses of trades unionism, they were all contracted individually and expected to work as needed, and were left to manage their own non-emergency work load to suit their own (legislatively backed) rest periods. Consequently, that department were staffed with a variety of old hands plus bright, young, intelligent people, many of whom managed to work their way up the ladder, or moved on to other companies for better pay. The mechanics hated the electricians, the electricians hated the mechanics. The management didn't bother fixing isuch an idiotic situation however, because, well, even in this day and age, who wants to deal with the sort of cunt who thinks his right to strike is the first, last, and only thing that matters. This all happened in a factory where the plant operators were under real pressure to keep the work flowing, because they knew that for a delay of X minutes, it cost Y pounds, and which inevitably had a knock on effect on their morale whenever a contract was lost or a shift was cut (or transferred to other plants in more enlightened countries) for productivity reasons. I do remember that the resident union scumbag tried to get me to fork over some of my weekly wage packet to help sustain his fat mates cushy number and ensure I was never 'exploited' by the company, but seeing as how I was one of the electricians and knew the company and their record quite well, I told him to go fuck himself. I moved on many years ago, but I can guarantee if the factory is still in business, the mechanics will still be there drinking there tea and screwing everyone else. And to think, there are still some assholes out there who think that closed shops were a good thing or that unions have a role in a modern economy. Dinosaurs the lot of em. I mean for fucks sake, being a fitter is supposed to be a strenous job, right? Not as hard as mining, but hard enough. Yet funnily enough, there wasn't a single one of those cunts that weighed less than 17 stone. Hopefully they all died of heart attacks long before they picked up their (very generous) pension packages.

If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit!

Here's a few gems from South Africa for the idiots who condemn Thatcher as a supporter of appartheid just because she didn't impose sanctions, and called the ANC (who were doing all sorts of terrorist shit at the time) a terrorist organization. The former British ambassador to South Africa, appointed by Thatcher, writes in a new book that “there was never any doubt about her opposition to apartheid,” but the question was how best to achieve change. It seemed to her that the worst approach was to further isolate South Africa with sanctions, as isolation contributed to a siege mentality on the part of Afrikaners. She reacted with genuine indignation to any suggestion of racism". Former South African President FW de Klerk, the country’s last white leader and a joint Nobel peace prize winner with Mandela, has praised Thatcher’s role in supporting South Africa’s constitutional transformation from white rule. “Although she was always a steadfast critic of apartheid, she had a much better grasp of the complexities and geo-strategic realities of South Africa than many of her contemporaries" Mangosuthu Buthelezi, leader of the Inkatha Freedom Party, a rival of the ANC, also posthumously praised his “dear friend” Thatcher. “She was a voice of reason during apartheid and listened attentively to my plea against sanctions and economic disinvestment, which we both recognized would hurt the poorest of our people the most,” Obviously Mandela hasn't said anything, and oddly, Zuma didn't say anything either way. Another ANC spokesperson simply condemns her for not isolating apartheid, although he doesn't say whether he wanted her to apply sanctions specifically.

I don't think so. Why would James Bond be pissing around on a Toon forum anyway?

I though I was refuting you?

Then you're the bloke who got Thatcher elected then. Congratulations. Here's to another 30 years of Britain being free of socialism if the youth of today still think like this.