LeazesMag

So is criminal conviction the only measure of misconduct for footballers? 78874[/snapback] what a strange question. Assault of an employee is an offence, or didn't you realise that ?

Golden rule of being an employee, you NEVER, NEVER go on national TV and call your manager, and by implication, the Chairman of the company you work for, a liar....... 78657[/snapback] and a manager doesn't assault his employee on the training ground .. the point is Gem, football is different, footballers are the valuable commodity not the other way round, they call the tune, if you lose them you can't replace them by putting a vacancy in an agency or the job centre.......and thats why these managers are also paid a lot of money 78725[/snapback] Good point. Don't expect a reply that addresses it properly. 78836[/snapback] Professionals are professionals, regardless of their line of work, how much they earn, or whether or not they command a transfer value, and they're expected to conduct themselves accordingly. I can't think of a club or a manager in the Premier League that would have put up with being called a liar by a player on national TV. No-one would put up with that, and nor should they, regardless of the "valuable commodity....can't be replaced down the job centre" stuff. How's that for a reply that addresses it properly? Doesn't matter how good a player Bellamy is or was. He signed his own death warrant at Newcastle United, regardless of whether of whether you believe there was provocation from Souness or not. 78842[/snapback] Souness signed his own death warrant the day he decided he couldn't be bothered to manage his most effective and vital forward in return for his multi million pound contract. Negligence of the highest order, and should have been immediately rewarded with his p45. Shame he didn't have the weight of public opinion against him, like now, or he wouldn't have got away with it. But some of us said at the time we shouldn't give him the time to "prove" himself, to be a shit manager as he has been for years. A manager shouldn't provoke his employees. This has been the point from day 1, glad to see you now admit you see that, however unintentionally.

Golden rule of being an employee, you NEVER, NEVER go on national TV and call your manager, and by implication, the Chairman of the company you work for, a liar....... 78657[/snapback] and a manager doesn't assault his employee on the training ground .. the point is Gem, football is different, footballers are the valuable commodity not the other way round, they call the tune, if you lose them you can't replace them by putting a vacancy in an agency or the job centre.......and thats why these managers are also paid a lot of money

Leazes - if the club has been financially mismanaged to the degree that you seem to think it has been, whose fault is that? Will you blame Shepherd for anything, I wonder? Mismanagement on the pitch is all down to the manager, financial mismanagement is the fault of the Chairman. So if we really are in the shit to the extent that this article claims and which you clearly believe, are you still blaming Souness for it? Incidentally, the article isn't great - for example, it immediately assumes that player additions were financed by debt. Perhaps not an unfair assumption, but not one that you would want to base an article on, given that the club had just taken in at least £18m in season ticket sales - not ALL player transfers are financed by debt. And whilst arguing (probably incorrectly) that the debt has gone up to £90m since the year end, the writer doesn't bother to add the new player values to the figure of £40m which he quotes (he just took that straight from the accounts without bothering to adjust for the likes of Owen and Luque at a value of around £27m). 78503[/snapback] £40 Million player value seems about right to me really, especially if we had to sell. I can't see us getting our money back on Owen or Luque. We might get some decent money for the likes of Parker, Given (whose approaching the end of his contract) and maybe Emre, and maybe Taylor and N'Zogbia, but the rest probably would struggle to command a 7-figure transfer value. 78508[/snapback] Whether we get our money back is irrelevant. He's talking about the capitalised value of the players in the financial statements - Owen would have been capitalised at his transfer value and then written down over the length of his contract. It's not just a question of him placing a value on what he thinks we could get for our squad. 78513[/snapback] Fair enough, but surely that original £40M figure would have included large values for players like Robert and Bellamy then? I agree the article is pretty lazy, but common sense tells me Newcastle are financially now on extremely shaky ground, especially if we can't even afford to change managers. One of my worries is that next year we will see a slump in season ticket sales - after all, this year we only just sold them after an extensive TV campaign and by buying Owen. If we lose more income, well, things are looking grim indeed. 78516[/snapback] How much value was attributed to Robert and Bellamy would have depended how much time they had remaining on their contracts, and how much had previously been written down. I doubt there was too much value on Robert, not sure on Bellamy. I reckon the biggest thing we're suffering from this season is not being in Europe. The club must have been bringing in about £0.5m for each of those UEFA Cup games when we were half filling the ground. So far this year we've had the FA Cup tie against Mansfield and that's about it outside of league matches. We definitely aren't doing as well as Shepherd would have hoped financially, which to my mind means that no dividend should be declared this year. That's not going to happen though. Him and Hall will take their usual couple of million quid each. 78520[/snapback] Golden rule of football, you NEVER, NEVER sell your best players [speculate to accumulate - unless they want to go and you have no choice] and Craig Bellamy most definitely did not want to leave NUFC.

Leazes - if the club has been financially mismanaged to the degree that you seem to think it has been, whose fault is that? Will you blame Shepherd for anything, I wonder? Mismanagement on the pitch is all down to the manager, financial mismanagement is the fault of the Chairman. So if we really are in the shit to the extent that this article claims and which you clearly believe, are you still blaming Souness for it? Incidentally, the article isn't great - for example, it immediately assumes that player additions were financed by debt. Perhaps not an unfair assumption, but not one that you would want to base an article on, given that the club had just taken in at least £18m in season ticket sales - not ALL player transfers are financed by debt. And whilst arguing (probably incorrectly) that the debt has gone up to £90m since the year end, the writer doesn't bother to add the new player values to the figure of £40m which he quotes (he just took that straight from the accounts without bothering to adjust for the likes of Owen and Luque at a value of around £27m). 78503[/snapback] the position we were in last august was that, he had backed his manager, so he either had to back him further or sack him. If he hadn't bought 2 forwards for extortionate prices, under pressure brought about by Souness' amateur ego motivated management, we would today be in the bottom 3. Either way, we had to find that money to attempt to stay up, or face relegation, both scenarios costing millions. I have said from day 1, I blame Shepherd/Hall for appointing Souness, but many of you have not, you said back him and give him time [to end up in this situation, as I predicted]. Correct or not ? It was not my idea to back Souness, so you are as incompetent in your judgement as Shepherd.

Plenty of chairmen would have done better, but then I can think of more than a few who would have done far worse. so who has ? agree with the rest

Matt Busby was knighted too Craig.......yes I haven't forgot the Munich Air Crash or anything and building the club again, but Bob Paisley got nothing, and Clough, both won it more than Ferguson. It does smack of manu bias, Parry has a point. Not that we should be surprised.

the only reason he keeps saying it is to convince himself, and what little support he has left who still haven't sussed him, he has justification for selling Bellamy. Because, like it or not, the day he decided on this action is the day it started going tits up for him.

..... and you are glad to see Souness stay .... ? 77757[/snapback] Ooooh so soopafan wants to see Newcastle lose? Ok....I'll try to remember that the next time you mention you've been to more newcastle games than anyone else.(900 odd games you know! ) whhhooooosh.......easy to predict. supafan. Correct ! 77891[/snapback] You're really good at dishing it out. How do you cope in the outside world??! 78118[/snapback] thank you and goodnight Omar

top point, and well phrased. Similar to earlier points about Souness' hypocrisy "I want players who don't like being subbed" then goes off his head when they show annoyance ie Bellamy and Dwight Yorke, and is exactly the reason Bellamy walked off the training ground to have a meeting with Shepherd All he wants is yes men and nodding donkeys to massage his ego, this has been obvious long before he came to Newcastle

All but the deluded would realise Shepherd has to take a huge slice of the blame, given he controls the purse strings and appointed Souness. 77993[/snapback] but, as you all said, or most of you, back him and give him time ....... whereas I said sack him. Only the deluded thought Souness would ever be a half decent manager, so those who said give him time are just as wrong and deluded as Shepherd 78002[/snapback] I wouldn't have appointed him in the first place but I don't see how you could argue he should have been sacked from day one. You thought he was going to fail, so did nearly every one. I find it strange how you continue to back Shepherd though, bearing all this in mind. 78012[/snapback] I can assure you if Shepherd backs another shite manager after Souness, he will lose my support on football grounds. Until then, as i said, everyone makes one bad appointment [sometiimes more..Liverpool appointed Souness and Evans, in fact all the top clubs appoint more than one, bar manu bet we will see how they get on when Fergie goes] And, if he does make a bad appointment, I won't be saying give him time, I'll be saying kick him out, just like this one.

If we got sucked into a relegation battle then I agree we would be justified in appointing whoever seemed like a better alternative. Totally. I think we just differ in that I think, until then, we should bide our time as I think hastiness was the big mistake with Souness. I'm not totally against a caretaker (just for the record) but my concern there is you get an inexperienced person getting a few good results (on the back of sheer enthusiasm as opposed to tactical acumen) and that persuades the Chairman to give him a full go next term in the belief that that will continue. Which in my opinion is a big risk and could lead to yet another wasted season. I accept that Stuart Pearce at Citeh is a good example of it working having said all that. 78046[/snapback] I see your point, however at the moment we still need a few more points to make sure we aren't sucked into a relwgation fight. If we are, Souness is the last man I would want to offer encouragement and support to players when they need lifting, we have all seen all he will do is increase the excuses and the mood of defeatism he has brought to his "happy" dressing room. I don't think Stuart Pearce has done anything yet, not a thing, he took over a good set of players and an improving team that Keegan built built who flagged a bit when he announced he was leaving but has neither improved or gone backwards. His real test will be when he has more of his own players.

I agree we should take our time, but it's more than possible we could get sucked into a real relegation fight, who is going to score the goals, we all know that Owen has won us half our points as Souness' get out of jail card Sacking Souness now and appointing a caretaker with impetus, and showing everyone the vacancy is there is the best idea IMO

All but the deluded would realise Shepherd has to take a huge slice of the blame, given he controls the purse strings and appointed Souness. 77993[/snapback] but, as you all said, or most of you, back him and give him time ....... whereas I said sack him. Only the deluded thought Souness would ever be a half decent manager, so those who said give him time are just as wrong and deluded as Shepherd

not your usual standard Alex

The phrase in my post "at huge cost" seems to be a lot more significant this morning, in view of the report of the 90m debt .....

As I've said from day 1 - almost - despite protestations from the accountant, that Souness management was doing this to us, I can hardly say I'm surprised. Maybe it will also help those who have delusions of grandeur that a different chairman would enable the club to spend yet more money, as well as those who think that dogless and FS taking 1m a year out of the club has a severe detrimental effect on such figures.

..... and you are glad to see Souness stay .... ? 77757[/snapback] Ooooh so soopafan wants to see Newcastle lose? Ok....I'll try to remember that the next time you mention you've been to more newcastle games than anyone else.(900 odd games you know! ) whhhooooosh.......easy to predict. supafan. Correct !

Basically Souness is a twat, Bellamy's a twat and Shola's garbage. 77685[/snapback] Bellamy may well be a twat, but is there still anyone out there who believes he (and Robert, perhaps) were ruining our team spirit whereas now its "the best Souness has ever had". The team with the shite team spirit (and Bellamy) would be the one who used to regularly come back from behind to win games, the one with the amazing team spirit is the one who is beaten every single time they go behind and play like it. Its obvious from the fact Souness pretty much mentions the dressing room or the spirit every week that he is way overcompensating, is hiding the fact he hasn't improved it at all and is tryign to still justify his fall outs with players by bullshitting about this amazing dressing room he has created. You don't hear other managers who actually have a great dressign room/spirit mention it all the time, they just sit back and let the results show how good the spirit is. If he mentions it once more or says the word "proper" in any context i hope the interview twats the useless fucker! 77691[/snapback] amazing how many are STILL taken in by Souness' spin and propaganda mate, "bad dressing room" my fecking arse 77782[/snapback] It's irrelevant. Neebody thinks he's the right manager, the arguments moved on. It's all about who and when to replace him. Keep up. 77802[/snapback] no it isn't, you STILL believe his lies about a player he sold....show us the evidence that the dressing room is better than it was, show us the evidence that it is better than under Bobby Robson when we were in the CL, show us the evidence that the "cancer" has moved from us to Blackburn..... and it's relevant because we would be better off if he was still here, and the wanker responsible for kicking him out is still here repeating this crap. So, admit you are wrong, for believing fuckwits lies ..... or prove otherwise 77820[/snapback] As mentioned by myself elsewhere in this very thread-he's a gobshite. He lies and he concocts excuses. He's not the man for the job. The team spirit was better before he came but with huge attitude problems and the team were in decline in any event and Robson wouldnt have solved the problem. Another manager might have done better than Souness - most thought that was likely. Another manager might still do better-most still think that is likely. We need another manager if we want to achieve anything-the only questions are who and when. The Bellamy argument is irrelevant. 77822[/snapback] I don't agree, a proper manager would have commanded his respect, and we would be better off and have Owen, Bellamy and Shearer all on the books. As for "making excuses", you are just someone else who has forgotten all about him playing for a season and a half with a career threatening injury.....and still put almost all of his team mates to shame for desire, energy and will to win - poisonous and gobby, bollocks, on the pitch where it matters he was the biggest attacking influence we had and was instrumental in Shearer finding a new lease of life. It is relevant for as long as it takes to adequately replace him [at huge cost] and for as long as the blind still believe fuckwits lies 77849[/snapback] Nobody believes Souness's lies. Desist! The main reason we havent won anything despite all the cash injections is a lack of professionalism-throughout the club. Bellamy was a very good player but typified this. What is acceptable as a professional footballer at Newcastle United is way below what is acceptable at the top clubs. That is why you constantly see the same clubs come from behind. That is why we win sweet fanny adams. Bellamy was a good player but not so good that he could win us anything singlehandedly. That is the only circumstance in which you can tolerate having that sort of player on your books (Diego Maradonna etc.) He's gone and I really couldnt give a shiney shite because it would have had no impact on us picking up a pot/staying up this season, good player as he was. 77855[/snapback] Bellamy and Robert transformed us from a mid table team, with no penetration or pace, into a team that qualified for the CL, now they have gone, where are we ? Yes, back to where we started....and worse. Such is the lack of professionalism - so far as I can see, they made great inroads ....... ? Did you say when Bellamy was here his "gob" wasn't worth the trouble ?

Basically Souness is a twat, Bellamy's a twat and Shola's garbage. 77685[/snapback] Bellamy may well be a twat, but is there still anyone out there who believes he (and Robert, perhaps) were ruining our team spirit whereas now its "the best Souness has ever had". The team with the shite team spirit (and Bellamy) would be the one who used to regularly come back from behind to win games, the one with the amazing team spirit is the one who is beaten every single time they go behind and play like it. Its obvious from the fact Souness pretty much mentions the dressing room or the spirit every week that he is way overcompensating, is hiding the fact he hasn't improved it at all and is tryign to still justify his fall outs with players by bullshitting about this amazing dressing room he has created. You don't hear other managers who actually have a great dressign room/spirit mention it all the time, they just sit back and let the results show how good the spirit is. If he mentions it once more or says the word "proper" in any context i hope the interview twats the useless fucker! 77691[/snapback] amazing how many are STILL taken in by Souness' spin and propaganda mate, "bad dressing room" my fecking arse 77782[/snapback] It's irrelevant. Neebody thinks he's the right manager, the arguments moved on. It's all about who and when to replace him. Keep up. 77802[/snapback] no it isn't, you STILL believe his lies about a player he sold....show us the evidence that the dressing room is better than it was, show us the evidence that it is better than under Bobby Robson when we were in the CL, show us the evidence that the "cancer" has moved from us to Blackburn..... and it's relevant because we would be better off if he was still here, and the wanker responsible for kicking him out is still here repeating this crap. So, admit you are wrong, for believing fuckwits lies ..... or prove otherwise 77820[/snapback] As mentioned by myself elsewhere in this very thread-he's a gobshite. He lies and he concocts excuses. He's not the man for the job. The team spirit was better before he came but with huge attitude problems and the team were in decline in any event and Robson wouldnt have solved the problem. Another manager might have done better than Souness - most thought that was likely. Another manager might still do better-most still think that is likely. We need another manager if we want to achieve anything-the only questions are who and when. The Bellamy argument is irrelevant. 77822[/snapback] I don't agree, a proper manager would have commanded his respect, and we would be better off and have Owen, Bellamy and Shearer all on the books. You are just someone else who has forgotten all about him playing for a season and a half with a career threatening injury.....and still put almost all of his team mates to shame for desire, energy and will to win - poisonous and gobby, bollocks, on the pitch where it matters he was the biggest attacking influence we had and was instrumental in Shearer finding a new lease of life. It is relevant for as long as it takes to adequately replace him [at huge cost] and for as long as the blind still believe fuckwits lies

Basically Souness is a twat, Bellamy's a twat and Shola's garbage. 77685[/snapback] Bellamy may well be a twat, but is there still anyone out there who believes he (and Robert, perhaps) were ruining our team spirit whereas now its "the best Souness has ever had". The team with the shite team spirit (and Bellamy) would be the one who used to regularly come back from behind to win games, the one with the amazing team spirit is the one who is beaten every single time they go behind and play like it. Its obvious from the fact Souness pretty much mentions the dressing room or the spirit every week that he is way overcompensating, is hiding the fact he hasn't improved it at all and is tryign to still justify his fall outs with players by bullshitting about this amazing dressing room he has created. You don't hear other managers who actually have a great dressign room/spirit mention it all the time, they just sit back and let the results show how good the spirit is. If he mentions it once more or says the word "proper" in any context i hope the interview twats the useless fucker! 77691[/snapback] amazing how many are STILL taken in by Souness' spin and propaganda mate, "bad dressing room" my fecking arse 77782[/snapback] It's irrelevant. Neebody thinks he's the right manager, the arguments moved on. It's all about who and when to replace him. Keep up. 77802[/snapback] no it isn't, you STILL believe his lies about a player he sold....show us the evidence that the dressing room is better than it was, show us the evidence that it is better than under Bobby Robson when we were in the CL, show us the evidence that the "cancer" has moved from us to Blackburn..... and it's relevant because we would be better off if he was still here, and the wanker responsible for kicking him out is still here repeating this crap. So, admit you are wrong, for believing fuckwits lies ..... or prove otherwise

Basically Souness is a twat, Bellamy's a twat and Shola's garbage. 77685[/snapback] Bellamy may well be a twat, but is there still anyone out there who believes he (and Robert, perhaps) were ruining our team spirit whereas now its "the best Souness has ever had". The team with the shite team spirit (and Bellamy) would be the one who used to regularly come back from behind to win games, the one with the amazing team spirit is the one who is beaten every single time they go behind and play like it. Its obvious from the fact Souness pretty much mentions the dressing room or the spirit every week that he is way overcompensating, is hiding the fact he hasn't improved it at all and is tryign to still justify his fall outs with players by bullshitting about this amazing dressing room he has created. You don't hear other managers who actually have a great dressign room/spirit mention it all the time, they just sit back and let the results show how good the spirit is. If he mentions it once more or says the word "proper" in any context i hope the interview twats the useless fucker! 77691[/snapback] amazing how many are STILL taken in by Souness' spin and propaganda mate, "bad dressing room" my fecking arse

Basically Souness is a twat, Bellamy's a twat and Shola's garbage. 77685[/snapback] wrong, Souness is a lying shitebag, Bellamy is a brilliant footballer and Shola is a donkey

..... and you are glad to see Souness stay .... ?

statistical crap by someone who knows nothing about football, because if they did, they would know there is no such thing as a bad time to get shot off a fuckwit like Souness