Michael Owen is injured ...The long night is over ..joy cometh in the morning

[Fop 1]

Has a lot to do with age I think. Most will be in their late teens/early 20s. I guess having discovered football and said player in early teens and idolised them all the way.

 

... Like Alan Shearer for some people.

 

Well Shearer was world class at his peak, injury probably robbed him of that, but even at 35 he was still a one of the best Premiership strikers.

 

He was even fairly decent when playing like crap, just before Robson took over.

 

 

 

Different sort of player to Owen or Martins though, and it's a shame he wasn't a few years younger as he probably could have worked well with either.

[Guest alex]

Has a lot to do with age I think. Most will be in their late teens/early 20s. I guess having discovered football and said player in early teens and idolised them all the way.

 

... Like Alan Shearer for some people.

 

Well Shearer was world class at his peak, injury probably robbed him of that, but even at 35 he was still a one of the best Premiership strikers.

He was even fairly decent when playing like crap, just before Robson took over.

 

 

 

Different sort of player to Owen or Martins though, and it's a shame he wasn't a few years younger as he probably could have worked well with either.

Was he really?

[Fop 1]

Look posting a clip of Owen during his Liverpool only highlights the difference btw Michael Owen then and now. he is still an excellent finisher but when is the last time u've seen him outpace a defender...

 

I'm not sure that's ever really been his game though.

 

Fact is Owen just won't flourish in a team with zero creativity, but that's a problem with the team not Owen (you can see it with England as much as Newcastle).

 

 

 

Where as Martins is more perhaps more capable of producing a solo effort, but is likely to have a much lower finishing rate in a team that is creating proper chances.

 

 

Out of interest are there any stats for Martins scored vs shots last season?

[Guest alex]

Look posting a clip of Owen during his Liverpool only highlights the difference btw Michael Owen then and now. he is still an excellent finisher but when is the last time u've seen him outpace a defender...

 

I'm not sure that's ever really been his game though.

 

Fact is Owen just won't flourish in a team with zero creativity, but that's a problem with the team not Owen (you can see it with England as much as Newcastle).

 

 

 

Where as Martins is more perhaps more capable of producing a solo effort, but is likely to have a much lower finishing rate in a team that is creating proper chances.

 

 

Out of interest are there any stats for Martins scored vs shots last season?

Opta would have done those stats for last year I think.

[Fop 1]

Has a lot to do with age I think. Most will be in their late teens/early 20s. I guess having discovered football and said player in early teens and idolised them all the way.

 

... Like Alan Shearer for some people.

 

Well Shearer was world class at his peak, injury probably robbed him of that, but even at 35 he was still a one of the best Premiership strikers.

He was even fairly decent when playing like crap, just before Robson took over.

 

 

 

Different sort of player to Owen or Martins though, and it's a shame he wasn't a few years younger as he probably could have worked well with either.

Was he really?

 

In his last season, yeah I'd say so, hardly what he was, but considering he was in some cases competing with players 15 year younger than him.

 

Would you say he was crap in his last season then? And how many were better than him?

[Guest alex]

Has a lot to do with age I think. Most will be in their late teens/early 20s. I guess having discovered football and said player in early teens and idolised them all the way.

 

... Like Alan Shearer for some people.

 

Well Shearer was world class at his peak, injury probably robbed him of that, but even at 35 he was still a one of the best Premiership strikers.

He was even fairly decent when playing like crap, just before Robson took over.

 

 

 

Different sort of player to Owen or Martins though, and it's a shame he wasn't a few years younger as he probably could have worked well with either.

Was he really?

 

In his last season, yeah I'd say so, hardly what he was, but considering he was in some cases competing with players 15 year younger than him.

 

Would you say he was crap in his last season then? And how many were better than him?

Yeah, I thought he was shite. And there were loads better imo. Statistically too iirc.

[Fop 1]

Has a lot to do with age I think. Most will be in their late teens/early 20s. I guess having discovered football and said player in early teens and idolised them all the way.

 

... Like Alan Shearer for some people.

 

Well Shearer was world class at his peak, injury probably robbed him of that, but even at 35 he was still a one of the best Premiership strikers.

He was even fairly decent when playing like crap, just before Robson took over.

 

 

 

Different sort of player to Owen or Martins though, and it's a shame he wasn't a few years younger as he probably could have worked well with either.

Was he really?

 

In his last season, yeah I'd say so, hardly what he was, but considering he was in some cases competing with players 15 year younger than him.

 

Would you say he was crap in his last season then? And how many were better than him?

Yeah, I thought he was shite. And there were loads better imo. Statistically too iirc.

 

Aye he was definitely failing and practically immobile, but he still scored a few in a team that wasn't really capable of supporting a lame duck and was still probably the biggest difference baring injuries between Roeder in 7th and 13th.

 

Actually interestingly Martins scored just 1 more in the league last year than Shearer did in the season before for 1 more league start.

Edited November 19, 2007 by Fop

[Guest alex]

I was disagreeing with him being one of the best in the Premiership in his last season though. He wasn't in anything other than in terms of his reputation imo. Nothing against the ledge that he is or anything, I just thought he was a shadow of his former self. Look at some of the players who outscored him in the PL that season:

Scorer Goals Team

Thierry Henry 27 Arsenal

Ruud van Nistelrooy 21 Manchester United

Darren Bent 18 Charlton Athletic

Robbie Keane 16 Tottenham Hotspur

Frank Lampard 16 Chelsea

Wayne Rooney 16 Manchester United

Marlon Harewood 14 West Ham United

Craig Bellamy 13 Blackburn Rovers

Yakubu Aiyegbeni 13 Middlesbrough

Henri Camara 12 Wigan Athletic

Didier Drogba 12 Chelsea

[Guest alex]

Re: your edited post btw. I wouldn't have Martins as one of the top Premier League strikers last season either.

[Fop 1]

I was disagreeing with him being one of the best in the Premiership in his last season though. He wasn't in anything other than in terms of his reputation imo. Nothing against the ledge that he is or anything, I just thought he was a shadow of his former self. Look at some of the players who outscored him in the PL that season:

Scorer Goals Team

Thierry Henry 27 Arsenal

Ruud van Nistelrooy 21 Manchester United

Darren Bent 18 Charlton Athletic

Robbie Keane 16 Tottenham Hotspur

Frank Lampard 16 Chelsea

Wayne Rooney 16 Manchester United

Marlon Harewood 14 West Ham United

Craig Bellamy 13 Blackburn Rovers

Yakubu Aiyegbeni 13 Middlesbrough

Henri Camara 12 Wigan Athletic

Didier Drogba 12 Chelsea

 

Aye actually looking at the stats he's quite a bit down on even his scoring ratio of the season before (although how much of that is down to the team is up for debate), although not many, if any, of those above him were over 30.

[Fop 1]

Re: your edited post btw. I wouldn't have Martins as one of the top Premier League strikers last season either.

 

Or in fact any of our current strikers in real terms.

[Guest alex]

I was disagreeing with him being one of the best in the Premiership in his last season though. He wasn't in anything other than in terms of his reputation imo. Nothing against the ledge that he is or anything, I just thought he was a shadow of his former self. Look at some of the players who outscored him in the PL that season:

Scorer Goals Team

Thierry Henry 27 Arsenal

Ruud van Nistelrooy 21 Manchester United

Darren Bent 18 Charlton Athletic

Robbie Keane 16 Tottenham Hotspur

Frank Lampard 16 Chelsea

Wayne Rooney 16 Manchester United

Marlon Harewood 14 West Ham United

Craig Bellamy 13 Blackburn Rovers

Yakubu Aiyegbeni 13 Middlesbrough

Henri Camara 12 Wigan Athletic

Didier Drogba 12 Chelsea

 

Aye actually looking at the stats he's quite a bit down on even his scoring ratio of the season before (although how much of that is down to the team is up for debate), although not many, if any, of those above him were over 30.

The team came 7th though whereas they came 13th or 14th iirc the year before. I thought he was finished the year before too like.

[Guest alex]

Re: your edited post btw. I wouldn't have Martins as one of the top Premier League strikers last season either.

 

Or in fact any of our current strikers in real terms.

I was just making the point about Martins as his 17 goals included 6 in Europe iirc. I think his 11 league goals made him about joint 12th top scorer (I researched it for an article for Newcastle-Online a while back ). Giving the mitigating factors he wasn't shit but he was nowhere near being one of the best strikers in the league. I'm not saying you were saying he was btw, but the way some people went on, especially on N-O, you'd think he had been.

[Fop 1]

Re: your edited post btw. I wouldn't have Martins as one of the top Premier League strikers last season either.

 

Or in fact any of our current strikers in real terms.

I was just making the point about Martins as his 17 goals included 6 in Europe iirc. I think his 11 league goals made him about joint 12th top scorer (I researched it for an article for Newcastle-Online a while back ). Giving the mitigating factors he wasn't shit but he was nowhere near being one of the best strikers in the league. I'm not saying you were saying he was btw, but the way some people went on, especially on N-O, you'd think he had been.

 

Yeah joint 11th with 6 other players (Shearer was joint 14th with 5 others season before), no idea about assists and such though.

 

 

 

I was disagreeing with him being one of the best in the Premiership in his last season though. He wasn't in anything other than in terms of his reputation imo. Nothing against the ledge that he is or anything, I just thought he was a shadow of his former self. Look at some of the players who outscored him in the PL that season:

Scorer Goals Team

Thierry Henry 27 Arsenal

Ruud van Nistelrooy 21 Manchester United

Darren Bent 18 Charlton Athletic

Robbie Keane 16 Tottenham Hotspur

Frank Lampard 16 Chelsea

Wayne Rooney 16 Manchester United

Marlon Harewood 14 West Ham United

Craig Bellamy 13 Blackburn Rovers

Yakubu Aiyegbeni 13 Middlesbrough

Henri Camara 12 Wigan Athletic

Didier Drogba 12 Chelsea

 

Aye actually looking at the stats he's quite a bit down on even his scoring ratio of the season before (although how much of that is down to the team is up for debate), although not many, if any, of those above him were over 30.

The team came 7th though whereas they came 13th or 14th iirc the year before. I thought he was finished the year before too like.

 

His overall ratio was still pretty good the previous year, although not in the league, but 2:1 games played vs goals scored isn't too shabby.

[Guest alex]

Not too shabby - OK. One of the best in the league - No

[Park Life 71]

Not too shabby - OK. One of the best in the league - No

 

 

Still in the top 10 in Euro if I dredge up my scribblings.

[Guest alex]

Not too shabby - OK. One of the best in the league - No

 

 

Still in the top 10 in Euro if I dredge up my scribblings.

Shearer?

[Fop 1]

Not too shabby - OK. One of the best in the league - No

 

I dunno, if you looked at the stats I doubt many would be better than 2:1, and he's still a Premiership striker whether he's scored them in the league or else where.

 

In his last season you're right though he'd dropped closer to 3:1 - I thought he'd played less games than he had tbh, and I guess time really was catching up to him (although in both seasons I think the team still has to be taken into account).

[Guest alex]

Not too shabby - OK. One of the best in the league - No

 

I dunno, if you looked at the stats I doubt many would be better than 2:1, and he's still a Premiership striker whether he's scored them in the league or else where.

 

In his last season you're right though he'd dropped closer to 3:1 - I thought he'd played less games than he had tbh, and I guess time really was catching up to him (although in both seasons I think the team still has to be taken into account).

I think only taking Premier League goals into account is fair enough if you're talking about who are the best Premier League strikers like

[Fop 1]

Not too shabby - OK. One of the best in the league - No

 

I dunno, if you looked at the stats I doubt many would be better than 2:1, and he's still a Premiership striker whether he's scored them in the league or else where.

 

In his last season you're right though he'd dropped closer to 3:1 - I thought he'd played less games than he had tbh, and I guess time really was catching up to him (although in both seasons I think the team still has to be taken into account).

I think only taking Premier League goals into account is fair enough if you're talking about who are the best Premier League strikers like

 

Well it is hardly fair to label Shearer shite because of not so many league goals when his ratio was 2:1 that season and his goals helped the team elsewhere.

 

He was still doing well as a Premiership striker (for a Premiership team) even though his league goals weren't that high that season.

 

As by your way of looking at it, he was one of the best Strikers in European football in that season.

[Guest alex]

Not too shabby - OK. One of the best in the league - No

 

I dunno, if you looked at the stats I doubt many would be better than 2:1, and he's still a Premiership striker whether he's scored them in the league or else where.

 

In his last season you're right though he'd dropped closer to 3:1 - I thought he'd played less games than he had tbh, and I guess time really was catching up to him (although in both seasons I think the team still has to be taken into account).

I think only taking Premier League goals into account is fair enough if you're talking about who are the best Premier League strikers like

 

Well it is hardly fair to label Shearer shite because of not so many league goals when his ratio was 2:1 that season and his goals helped the team elsewhere.

 

He was still doing well as a Premiership striker (for a Premiership team) even though his league goals weren't that high that season.

 

As by your way of looking at it, he was one of the best Strikers in European football in that season.

Shite's probably harsh, and based on what he had been like. Saying he was still one of the best in the Premiership in his last season is going way too far the other way though.

[Fop 1]

Not too shabby - OK. One of the best in the league - No

 

I dunno, if you looked at the stats I doubt many would be better than 2:1, and he's still a Premiership striker whether he's scored them in the league or else where.

 

In his last season you're right though he'd dropped closer to 3:1 - I thought he'd played less games than he had tbh, and I guess time really was catching up to him (although in both seasons I think the team still has to be taken into account).

I think only taking Premier League goals into account is fair enough if you're talking about who are the best Premier League strikers like

 

Well it is hardly fair to label Shearer shite because of not so many league goals when his ratio was 2:1 that season and his goals helped the team elsewhere.

 

He was still doing well as a Premiership striker (for a Premiership team) even though his league goals weren't that high that season.

 

As by your way of looking at it, he was one of the best Strikers in European football in that season.

Shite's probably harsh, and based on what he had been like. Saying he was still one of the best in the Premiership in his last season is going way too far the other way though.

 

Yeah like I said I thought his overall ratio was still closer to 2:1 than 3:1 in his last season, but even so in a misfiring team not too bad (I couldn't have seen many of those above him that last season scoring as many [league or otherwise] had they being playing for Newcastle).

[Guest alex]

Not too shabby - OK. One of the best in the league - No

 

I dunno, if you looked at the stats I doubt many would be better than 2:1, and he's still a Premiership striker whether he's scored them in the league or else where.

 

In his last season you're right though he'd dropped closer to 3:1 - I thought he'd played less games than he had tbh, and I guess time really was catching up to him (although in both seasons I think the team still has to be taken into account).

I think only taking Premier League goals into account is fair enough if you're talking about who are the best Premier League strikers like

 

Well it is hardly fair to label Shearer shite because of not so many league goals when his ratio was 2:1 that season and his goals helped the team elsewhere.

 

He was still doing well as a Premiership striker (for a Premiership team) even though his league goals weren't that high that season.

 

As by your way of looking at it, he was one of the best Strikers in European football in that season.

Shite's probably harsh, and based on what he had been like. Saying he was still one of the best in the Premiership in his last season is going way too far the other way though.

 

Yeah like I said I thought his overall ratio was still closer to 2:1 than 3:1 in his last season, but even so in a misfiring team not too bad (I couldn't have seen many of those above him that last season scoring as many [league or otherwise] had they being playing for Newcastle).

Outscored by a canny few average players in the league in teams that did less well. Shadow of his former self too. The stats don't lie in this case, sadly. For me Uefa Cup goals don't really hold too much sway when comparing him to other Premiership strikers.

Edited November 19, 2007 by alex

[Fop 1]

Not too shabby - OK. One of the best in the league - No

 

I dunno, if you looked at the stats I doubt many would be better than 2:1, and he's still a Premiership striker whether he's scored them in the league or else where.

 

In his last season you're right though he'd dropped closer to 3:1 - I thought he'd played less games than he had tbh, and I guess time really was catching up to him (although in both seasons I think the team still has to be taken into account).

I think only taking Premier League goals into account is fair enough if you're talking about who are the best Premier League strikers like

 

Well it is hardly fair to label Shearer shite because of not so many league goals when his ratio was 2:1 that season and his goals helped the team elsewhere.

 

He was still doing well as a Premiership striker (for a Premiership team) even though his league goals weren't that high that season.

 

As by your way of looking at it, he was one of the best Strikers in European football in that season.

Shite's probably harsh, and based on what he had been like. Saying he was still one of the best in the Premiership in his last season is going way too far the other way though.

 

Yeah like I said I thought his overall ratio was still closer to 2:1 than 3:1 in his last season, but even so in a misfiring team not too bad (I couldn't have seen many of those above him that last season scoring as many [league or otherwise] had they being playing for Newcastle).

Outscored by a canny few average players in the league in teams that did less well. Shadow of his former self too. The stats don't lie in this case, sadly. For me Uefa Cup goals don't really hold too much sway when comparing him to other Premiership strikers.

 

Still one of the best strikers in Europe, season before his retirement isn't too bad.

Edited November 19, 2007 by Fop

[Guest alex]

Not too shabby - OK. One of the best in the league - No

 

I dunno, if you looked at the stats I doubt many would be better than 2:1, and he's still a Premiership striker whether he's scored them in the league or else where.

 

In his last season you're right though he'd dropped closer to 3:1 - I thought he'd played less games than he had tbh, and I guess time really was catching up to him (although in both seasons I think the team still has to be taken into account).

I think only taking Premier League goals into account is fair enough if you're talking about who are the best Premier League strikers like

 

Well it is hardly fair to label Shearer shite because of not so many league goals when his ratio was 2:1 that season and his goals helped the team elsewhere.

 

He was still doing well as a Premiership striker (for a Premiership team) even though his league goals weren't that high that season.

 

As by your way of looking at it, he was one of the best Strikers in European football in that season.

Shite's probably harsh, and based on what he had been like. Saying he was still one of the best in the Premiership in his last season is going way too far the other way though.

 

Yeah like I said I thought his overall ratio was still closer to 2:1 than 3:1 in his last season, but even so in a misfiring team not too bad (I couldn't have seen many of those above him that last season scoring as many [league or otherwise] had they being playing for Newcastle).

Outscored by a canny few average players in the league in teams that did less well. Shadow of his former self too. The stats don't lie in this case, sadly. For me Uefa Cup goals don't really hold too much sway when comparing him to other Premiership strikers.

 

Still one of the best strikers in Europe, season before his retirement isn't too bad.