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Renton, I know this is a stressful time for you but you can’t be coming out with outlandish claims like ‘Gemmill is better than this’ and he’s ‘a funny poster’ with no evidence to support it. Seriously though, without levity and humour what have we got left?

Ooof I think thats a bit harsh.

Outstanding article written by the late Mr Fisk absolutely nailing media obeisance which abounds today as well as damning the chronicle which is a Brucie's bonus.

Is that the system whereby if I see some covidiot without a mask, I can fucking lamp them?

I honestly don’t think Labour’s policies were all that extreme. We just live in a fucking evil country full of people set on self harm.

Da fuck did he do?

Im fuckin devastated you’re still twisting on like a 13 year lass tbh

I try to keep out of the Waffle thread, but I don’t really see the issue here. If you swap “antisemitism” with any other “ism”, not many people would be arguing for Corbyn’s stance here. Labour fucked up, Starmer accepted they did, Corbyn didn’t. That’s one of the multiple reasons he’s not the leader any more. The whole criticism of Israel issue is, I think, unrelated to what’s the actual issue here. The issue is that Corbyn was, as a party leader, weak as piss and wouldn’t make a decision, and, crucially, was blinded by his stance on Palestine, which allowed the antisemites to do their thing.

Probably all true - but in the end it isn't our problem. It should be, and under a proper democracy it would be possible to explore and criticise where appropriate - but the UK isn't a proper democracy. It's a series of narratives that you have to avoid being on the wrong end of if you ever want to get into power. It is what it is, and I've learned in the past few months that having any view which isn't hard boiled in a pragmatic 'power at all costs' approach is simply 'sixth form debating club' politics.

Seems to me that the result of the Labour AS affair will be the closing down of any mainstream criticism of Israel re the Palestinian situation in the media. Very liberal Jewish folk like David Baddiel (who I like and respect) always say that they object & criticise but you rarely see it . As for the rest of us, who’s going to stick their head above the parapet now? That was always one of Corbyn’s main problems, you go into pro Palestine groups and I’ve no doubt you will find a bunch of foaming mouthed anti semites. The Israeli policy towards Palestine has been a murderous abomination for 70 years. Does that go to the heart of the Israeli state or does it dwell within the hearts of the population who elect those who carry out the policy? It’s almost certainly both, but is it anti Semitic to suggest that?

The Fish?

A nice family?

Your left arm would be okay, the right one however...

It's only a few months since Starmer spoke out against Israel's plans to annex further Palestinian lands so the idea that you can't criticise Israeli actions is nonsense.

I think the result of the investigation is fair. It’s where it leaves legitimate criticism of Israel I’m talking about. I think that I explained how it’s going to play out with regards to your response fairly clearly . No one even remotely left wing will be able to utter any criticism of Israel without the mass ranks of the Tory press screeching “ANTI SEMITE” and you suggested that the likes of me & Rayvin had better not utter a syllable of bile or we’re going to be lumped in with Corbyn’s goons. That’s how I interpreted your response anyway, correct me if I’m wrong.

you can be principled and pragmatic. the dogma that corbyn, and his followers, preach is self-defeating, pig-headed and ultimately enables more tory rule. in fact, for that reason, i'd say corbyn has been just as bad for the country as cameron, osborne and johnson/cummings. we have never needed competent opposition more. it looks like we finally have it in starmer

The fuck did I do now?

Yeah I thought I'd characterised your position pretty fairly

Lockdown spoiling bastards.

You think Starmer could come out and criticise Israel for anything? Or anyone from Labour in fact? I doubt it, they'll now have to shut the fuck up for their own good, or a media evisceration will await. In the end, I actually agree with you on this anyway - principles are dead, pragmatism has to reign. In general, that's how I think Labour need to operate if they want to win power. I won't be joining them though (albeit this isn't the issue that represented the final straw for me) - back to the sixth form debating club for me

Stayed down ages, too.

“ Chicken’s ready!” ”Fucken isn’t like”

It would have been a slightly sweeter victory if Pickford was in goals. Apparently he's well overrated, though can't recall where I heard it first.

Mina is just a shithouse wanker. Was chuffed Fraser absolutely done him for pace and made him look the lumbering fool he is for the second. Good performance that one. Everton are as always overrated to fuck again this year, sure they had a few players injured but they’ve spent a fucking fortune over recent years so it’s a soft excuse for getting bossed like that. Always nice to see Pickford twisting on the bench the little charver.

Townsend doesnt think it's a penalty, and Osman agrees. Haha, suggested Wilson had no intention of getting the ball, you know, despite the fact that he, you know, got the ball

Wor lass been rabbiting away all match. HT whistle goes and she says she'll go and do stuff around the house 'while the match is on'.

Sure Donald snr, just have to repeat this, some day someone will believe your narrative.,, meanwhile

It was Apartheid era South Africa then, so they probably were

Mackems must be loving the weather in Cape Town.

you're just a pup, in the 60s we were located slightly south of lille.

Sean Gonnery, more like

I remember back in the 80s when we were just off the coast of Southampton

As a special tribute ITV could decide not to show one of his Bond films tomorrow afternoon

I watched it with 30 Eurovision fans in an Irish pub in Utrecht before getting stuck into a pile of bitterballen.

Went out with Tooj and Chez Given the night before and woke up on the settee and found a full miniature of Black Bottle in my pocket. Which I necked. Nee idea how it got there. Or how I got there tbf. Funny the things you remember

Fuck me yeah.... I was at my brothers 40th in Edinburgh on the Saturday night...,got a couple of hours sleep then got the 0800 train from Haymarket with a breakfast consisting of a four pack of Strongbow to the game. Think I had a couple with @Howmanheyman postgame in the Percy, a fuckin brilliant day.... 10 years on, not allowed into the City of Edinburgh to celebrate my brothers 50th & the mackems are in divi 3 without a pot to piss in, so not all bad

Paging Fish! Paging Fish!

Around Christmas time, 1994 whilst singing the 'slap your lass with a Christmas tree' line he actually did pick up a tree and slapped his lass. She then staggered into the kitchen, took a carving knife out of the draw and plunged it into Harry's chest. Harry died on the ambulance trip and his lass was released from prison in 2001.

No queues at the burger stand.…

I’m sure you could ask her for us- lovely family.

This years pumpkin is sorted Should keep the covidiots away.

Harry Potter is our friend, he shoots wizards!