Christmas Tree

Since the economy went south three years ago and like a lot of jobs, there is sweet fa to be made taxi'ing.

This is the crux of the debate on here. There are those that simply think this is the nasty evil tory party out to fuck people over. the majority on here Then there are those who think the Tories under Cameron are a pretty decent lot and are really trying to get the country sorted out.you Neither side will convince the other. However anyone who heard Ian Duncan Smiths's speech today cant help but have been moved by his unyielding honesty and desire to sort out the welfare system. Putting aside the cuts, which are unavoidable, I think the only ones who need fear under this government are the benefit system players and those responsible for waste in the public sector.yeah, lets put aside the cuts eh, then everythings rosy. ffs man, its all about the cuts The cuts were going to come whoever was in power. Even Red Ed is saying that he would have simply delayed them for a few years. Can you imagine Labour after 3 years in power and on the run in to a general election suddenly deciding the time was right to take the right action. Ofcourse not, they would have simply fudged and put it off again, all the while dragging the country even further down the shitter. From a political point of view, the only time any party in power could take this action is at the start of their term in office. This at least gives that party the chance to reap the benefit of the action taken. The fact that the "majority" on here are anti tory is meaningless tbf. There are quite a few young uns, who know little of the world, quite a few of the Guardian brigade like Renton and others like NJS, Alex and possible yourself who have and always will hate the Tories. There are quite a few older wiser members on here who are not as entrenched in their views. Patronised by a cabby, oh me oh my So, since you are old, wise and not at all entrenched in your views, you'll admit that Normal Dave lied outright when they said before the election they would not touch child benefit The best PM of your lifetime is a dirty fibber Correct? Im not sure he did say that? I do however remember him saying their would be cuts and that the exact cuts would be worked out when they took over from Labour. Think the Tories were the only honest party about cuts at the election. Ffs sake man, keep up. He's your dreamboat. "David Cameron was forced today to apologise to voters for breaking an election promise with his decision to withdraw child benefit from 1.2 million higher-rate taxpayers. On a day of jitters and policy wobbles in the Conservative high command, the prime minister acknowledged the decision – announced on Monday by the chancellor, George Osborne – had led to a storm of criticism from those claiming that the axing of child benefit had damaged the party's commitment to family values and undermined the universalist base of the welfare state, something he had promised to preserve in the election." http://m.guardian.co.uk/?id=102202&sto...ild-benefit-cut I can see the Guardian are implying it and I'm happy to be corrected, but you said Cameron said he wouldnt cut Child Benefit. I simply dont recall him saying it. Out of interest, do you think its agood step in the right direction or that it should have been left as universal?

The suggestion there to me is that the only people who will lose their jobs are those repsonsible for public sector waste? If that's what you mean it's quite obnoxious tbh. You being one of them, I assume? You, who has admitted on this thread that you were a 'dyed in the wool tory', danced around like a child when the tories 'won' the election, and now thinks Cameron is the best PM in modern history after less than 6 months of office? I find your lack or self awareness utterly bizarre. I know my beliefs and allegiances, I don't hide it. I am aware that I will find it hard to judge Cameron fairly. You, however, seem to really believe you can judge 'Red Ed' fairly (the use of that perjorative tabloid name itself is a giveaway to your political intellect btw). Staggering. P.S. I read the Times occasionally, not the Guardian, which incidentally did not support Labour in any case. Once again you try and cherry pick part sentences to attempt to twist their meaning....Now thats obnoxious The full quote was... "Putting aside the cuts, which are unavoidable, I think the only ones who need fear under this government are the benefit system players and those responsible for waste in the public sector". The bit you chose to chop off clearly puts to one side the people who will lose jobs because of cuts. With regard to your second paragraph of dribble you simply dont get it. I can appreciate good policy whether it comes from Labour, Liberals or Conservative. I can happily get into a debate about policy and discuss the pros and cons. Sometimes someone closer involved with the issue will make good valid points and sway the argument. You however seem unable to do this. You are like Polly Toynbee on steroids. You are constantly on the attack. As I said earlier if Cameron cured cancer you wouldnt say well done, you would whine about what he hadnt done.

This is the crux of the debate on here. There are those that simply think this is the nasty evil tory party out to fuck people over. the majority on here Then there are those who think the Tories under Cameron are a pretty decent lot and are really trying to get the country sorted out.you Neither side will convince the other. However anyone who heard Ian Duncan Smiths's speech today cant help but have been moved by his unyielding honesty and desire to sort out the welfare system. Putting aside the cuts, which are unavoidable, I think the only ones who need fear under this government are the benefit system players and those responsible for waste in the public sector.yeah, lets put aside the cuts eh, then everythings rosy. ffs man, its all about the cuts The cuts were going to come whoever was in power. Even Red Ed is saying that he would have simply delayed them for a few years. Can you imagine Labour after 3 years in power and on the run in to a general election suddenly deciding the time was right to take the right action. Ofcourse not, they would have simply fudged and put it off again, all the while dragging the country even further down the shitter. From a political point of view, the only time any party in power could take this action is at the start of their term in office. This at least gives that party the chance to reap the benefit of the action taken. The fact that the "majority" on here are anti tory is meaningless tbf. There are quite a few young uns, who know little of the world, quite a few of the Guardian brigade like Renton and others like NJS, Alex and possible yourself who have and always will hate the Tories. There are quite a few older wiser members on here who are not as entrenched in their views. Patronised by a cabby, oh me oh my So, since you are old, wise and not at all entrenched in your views, you'll admit that Normal Dave lied outright when they said before the election they would not touch child benefit The best PM of your lifetime is a dirty fibber Correct? Im not sure he did say that? I do however remember him saying their would be cuts and that the exact cuts would be worked out when they took over from Labour. Think the Tories were the only honest party about cuts at the election.

Im generelly very pour at speling so that comant has cheared me well up.

It depends which one of us is typing

This is the crux of the debate on here. There are those that simply think this is the nasty evil tory party out to fuck people over. the majority on here Then there are those who think the Tories under Cameron are a pretty decent lot and are really trying to get the country sorted out.you Neither side will convince the other. However anyone who heard Ian Duncan Smiths's speech today cant help but have been moved by his unyielding honesty and desire to sort out the welfare system. Putting aside the cuts, which are unavoidable, I think the only ones who need fear under this government are the benefit system players and those responsible for waste in the public sector.yeah, lets put aside the cuts eh, then everythings rosy. ffs man, its all about the cuts The cuts were going to come whoever was in power. Even Red Ed is saying that he would have simply delayed them for a few years. Can you imagine Labour after 3 years in power and on the run in to a general election suddenly deciding the time was right to take the right action. Ofcourse not, they would have simply fudged and put it off again, all the while dragging the country even further down the shitter. From a political point of view, the only time any party in power could take this action is at the start of their term in office. This at least gives that party the chance to reap the benefit of the action taken. The fact that the "majority" on here are anti tory is meaningless tbf. There are quite a few young uns, who know little of the world, quite a few of the Guardian brigade like Renton and others like NJS, Alex and possible yourself who have and always will hate the Tories. There are quite a few older wiser members on here who are not as entrenched in their views.

This is the crux of the debate on here. There are those that simply think this is the nasty evil tory party out to fuck people over. Then there are those who think the Tories under Cameron are a pretty decent lot and are really trying to get the country sorted out. Neither side will convince the other. However anyone who heard Ian Duncan Smiths's speech today cant help but have been moved by his unyielding honesty and desire to sort out the welfare system. Putting aside the cuts, which are unavoidable, I think the only ones who need fear under this government are the benefit system players and those responsible for waste in the public sector.

No prizes for guessing which fucking rag run this poll.... YouGov as it happens quite serious pollsters and all that The problem a few on here are discovering, like Labour, is that they are totally out of touch with how people are feeling in the real world. Nobody is looking forward to cuts, but the majority no whose shift this went South on and dont believe a word Labour has to say on this matter. Labours credability is shot and will take a long time to recover.

Wrong again Do you break the £44k threshold though? Cant really take anyone srious on this issue who doesnt at least see this as a very good first move. Well off people dont need benefits. What about those with a household income of 80k? Thats why I said "first move". Lets look at the facts. 85% of people currently receiving child benefit wont be affected by this. of the ones who are, there will be some oddities as you describe. These will be miniscule. To make this change problem free you would then have to start means testing every family, filling in forms, more wasted in pen pushing than would probably be saved. I would rather see the 1 billion saving than get all heated up over the few exceptions. You have similar oddities in most current tax systems now. Hopefully this is just the sort of thing that will be tidied up when the single benefit comes in. I can see this being really painful for single-earning familes with several kids tbh, I don't think the 'oddities will be miniscule' either. Easy to applaud it when it doesn't affect you though (assuming you don't declare wages in excess of £44k). This is going to piss off a lot of Conservative voters actually, so in a way I applaud Cameron for being brave. You absolute tit, it only effects people paying higher rate tax!!!!! Yes you have a legal eagle wife and a cushy public sector job so some "poor bint" on plus £45,000 will probably seem hard done by to you Go and tell your little sob story to the majority who are on piss poor wages and see how much sympathy you get. Fucking astounding! Cameron could get up tomorrow and announce he had cured cancer and your response would simply be "What about the blind, he's done fuck all for the blind. You are an absolute tool of the highest order Well done for getting personal again you complete bell end. This is coming from a man who claims he can easily clear 70k driving a private hire cab for anyone who missed that particular claim. If you bothered reading what I said I didn't comment on whether this policy was right or wrong, I commented on the fact that it would really hurt a particular demographic, and these would mainly be Conservative voters. I was being serious when I said it was a brave policy for Cameron to roll out. I actually agree that universal benefits of all kinds need to be reduced or even stopped - including cold weather payments. I just think this should be done more fairly, and you know what, so do a lot of Conservatives and half the right wing press. You commented that someone earning in excess of £45,000 a year would find it really painful to lose child benefit. You are detatched from the real world if this is your idea of real pain. It is that simple.

Wrong again Do you break the £44k threshold though? Cant really take anyone srious on this issue who doesnt at least see this as a very good first move. Well off people dont need benefits. What about those with a household income of 80k? Thats why I said "first move". Lets look at the facts. 85% of people currently receiving child benefit wont be affected by this. of the ones who are, there will be some oddities as you describe. These will be miniscule. To make this change problem free you would then have to start means testing every family, filling in forms, more wasted in pen pushing than would probably be saved. I would rather see the 1 billion saving than get all heated up over the few exceptions. You have similar oddities in most current tax systems now. Hopefully this is just the sort of thing that will be tidied up when the single benefit comes in. I can see this being really painful for single-earning familes with several kids tbh, I don't think the 'oddities will be miniscule' either. Easy to applaud it when it doesn't affect you though (assuming you don't declare wages in excess of £44k). This is going to piss off a lot of Conservative voters actually, so in a way I applaud Cameron for being brave. You absolute tit, it only effects people paying higher rate tax!!!!! Yes you have a legal eagle wife and a cushy public sector job so some "poor bint" on plus £45,000 will probably seem hard done by to you Go and tell your little sob story to the majority who are on piss poor wages and see how much sympathy you get. Fucking astounding! Cameron could get up tomorrow and announce he had cured cancer and your response would simply be "What about the blind, he's done fuck all for the blind. You are an absolute tool of the highest order Chomp chompity chomp. Chomp chomp. If only it was that simple..... He actually believes what he says as his post over the last two years show. Theres lots of people posting on here with kids whether young and old and its a shame you cant discuss some of the topics of the day without everything derailling into the big bad tory thread. He's like the leazes / Skidmark of politics.

You've been found out I see http://www.toontastic.net/board/index.php?...st&p=787625

Defending the realm, again

Wrong again Do you break the £44k threshold though? Cant really take anyone srious on this issue who doesnt at least see this as a very good first move. Well off people dont need benefits. What about those with a household income of 80k? Thats why I said "first move". Lets look at the facts. 85% of people currently receiving child benefit wont be affected by this. of the ones who are, there will be some oddities as you describe. These will be miniscule. To make this change problem free you would then have to start means testing every family, filling in forms, more wasted in pen pushing than would probably be saved. I would rather see the 1 billion saving than get all heated up over the few exceptions. You have similar oddities in most current tax systems now. Hopefully this is just the sort of thing that will be tidied up when the single benefit comes in. I can see this being really painful for single-earning familes with several kids tbh, I don't think the 'oddities will be miniscule' either. Easy to applaud it when it doesn't affect you though (assuming you don't declare wages in excess of £44k). This is going to piss off a lot of Conservative voters actually, so in a way I applaud Cameron for being brave. You absolute tit, it only effects people paying higher rate tax!!!!! Yes you have a legal eagle wife and a cushy public sector job so some "poor bint" on plus £45,000 will probably seem hard done by to you Go and tell your little sob story to the majority who are on piss poor wages and see how much sympathy you get. Fucking astounding! Cameron could get up tomorrow and announce he had cured cancer and your response would simply be "What about the blind, he's done fuck all for the blind. You are an absolute tool of the highest order

New enterprise allowance announced. Upto £2000 worth of help for anyone who has been in employment for 6 months who now wants to start their own business.

Who knows? While some will jump on this as the big Tory political plan behind the cuts, it is allowing a real good shake up of spending that has been long overdue. Most governments shy away from this sort of thing because it is not popular and nobody wants to grasp the nettle, however I think out of these cuts will evolve a much leaner government more suited to the needs of today, not yesteryear. Getting rid of stupid handouts, sorting out welfare, defence etc should put us in a far better position to spend money in the right way and in the right areas. Less tanks, better schools etc. IDS launching the single benefit now on TV

Wrong again Probably will be by 2013 though, eh? You should make the previous post your sig btw. Wrong Again One more in the same thread on the same day should really entitle you to a prize or something Wouldn't want to steal your crown tbh. And I'm only going off you mentioning your daughter starting work in a bank. 1 down three to go

Wrong again Do you break the £44k threshold though? Cant really take anyone srious on this issue who doesnt at least see this as a very good first move. Well off people dont need benefits. What about those with a household income of 80k? Thats why I said "first move". Lets look at the facts. 85% of people currently receiving child benefit wont be affected by this. of the ones who are, there will be some oddities as you describe. These will be miniscule. To make this change problem free you would then have to start means testing every family, filling in forms, more wasted in pen pushing than would probably be saved. I would rather see the 1 billion saving than get all heated up over the few exceptions. You have similar oddities in most current tax systems now. Hopefully this is just the sort of thing that will be tidied up when the single benefit comes in.

Wrong again Probably will be by 2013 though, eh? You should make the previous post your sig btw. Wrong Again One more in the same thread on the same day should really entitle you to a prize or something

As with all handouts of any description which is why this move towards a single benefit seems a good idea. While a lot of these things are nice to have and obviously get used so are "useful / needed", I still think the government hands out far too much dosh. Tax people less rather than taking it with one hand and then giving it back with the other as they do with tax credits. The only one imo that should be universal is the winter fuel allowance. The case that if means tested, lots of needy pensioners would not apply is too strong. So basically you believe in reducing progressive taxation then, i.e. you don't believe in wealth redistribution. Typical tory. Surely stopping handouts to rich people is wealth redistribution? Typical commie tbf

Wrong again Do you break the £44k threshold though? Cant really take anyone srious on this issue who doesnt at least see this as a very good first move. Well off people dont need benefits.

Wrong again

As with all handouts of any description which is why this move towards a single benefit seems a good idea. While a lot of these things are nice to have and obviously get used so are "useful / needed", I still think the government hands out far too much dosh. Tax people less rather than taking it with one hand and then giving it back with the other as they do with tax credits. The only one imo that should be universal is the winter fuel allowance. The case that if means tested, lots of needy pensioners would not apply is too strong.

I spotted the deranged fucker on his bike last week heading into Liverpool St station - first "celeb" I've seen in London for ages. Surely most people love Boris? He is after all one of the true characters in Polotics.