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Manc-mag,

 

I'm currently finishing a role for my company, the end date is 31st december. The role will not exist next year so the team has no budget for headcount in my role. The company is currently having some broad difficulties due to a problem on one of our key growth brands meaning growth targets for 2008 will be missed. The company has recently announced an 'operational excellence' programme which is one of those beautiful corporate euphemisms for cost-cutting and job losses.

 

I work in an EU role and i have been put forward for 2 roles within the company, one back in the UK operating company and one in the Global R&D organisation. Neither of those are really 'equivalent' jobs, so a case can be made for me not accepting them as they can be seen as a step backwards (uk role) and not in line with my career trajectory (R&D role).

 

I have been offered a job (in writing) from another company and i'm really into the idea of taking it. More money, better conditions (french holidays basically) and its with the industry leader (i'm in the no.2 company at the moment).

 

Having had this offer in writing, am i legally allowed to ask for redundancy from my current company even though i know i have a job to go to? They are looking to cut jobs so i can write to HR saying i would be prepared to take redundancy but am concerned about the legality of not discussing or letting them know that i have another job outside of the business already in place (and who want me to start asap).

 

If you can help out, you can drink for free next time i see you. :D

 

Chez. :rolleyes:

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I've taken redundancy when I knew I already had another job lined up. I didn't have a problem with it morally (in fact I was rather pleased with myself), and legally I can't see a problem. If they are looking to cut costs and you're willing to take redundancy, what you do after that is none of their business shirley?

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Ask for redundancy and tell the other company you can't start until the new year as they wont release you.

 

Problem solved, I'll have a double Southern Comfort (or should I say SoCo) and Lemonade please.

 

I'm sure you've been asked this before though SMO, 'Is it legal?'

 

Totally legal, loads of people here are taking voluntary redundancy at the mo and have other things lined up. Getting a nice sum of cash to set themselves up in business, pay off mortgages etc.

 

DO IT! And don't forget my drink.

 

Only issue would be getting the other place to hold this position for you until the end of the year. Although if they are keen I'm sure they would.

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Unless you take company secrets with you I'm sure it's perfectly legal. They have a claim on knowing where you're going on this basis though, if you work in that kind of thing (the R&D makes it sound like you might have some privelaged knowledge).

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Ask for redundancy and tell the other company you can't start until the new year as they wont release you.

 

Problem solved, I'll have a double Southern Comfort (or should I say SoCo) and Lemonade please.

 

I'm sure you've been asked this before though SMO, 'Is it legal?'

 

Totally legal, loads of people here are taking voluntary redundancy at the mo and have other things lined up. Getting a nice sum of cash to set themselves up in business, pay off mortgages etc.

 

DO IT! And don't forget my drink.

 

Only issue would be getting the other place to hold this position for you until the end of the year. Although if they are keen I'm sure they would.

 

They dont expect me to start until the new year anyway. Cheers anyway mate, be nice to hear what manc-mag has to say too.

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Unless you take company secrets with you I'm sure it's perfectly legal. They have a claim on knowing where you're going on this basis though, if you work in that kind of thing (the R&D makes it sound like you might have some privelaged knowledge).

 

Very much in that boat as you can be frog-marched out the building if you go to work on a competitive product. I've seen people hand their notice in at 9am and were out the door at 10am.

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'Redundancy' is only from their perspective. Thus if they don't have a role to offer you/choose not to offer you a role for whatever reason and you are therefore in line for redundancy then in principle you can take it without reference to whatever contingency you have in place. The fact that you personally would not actually find yourself 'redundant' is irrelevant.

 

I'd check your T&C re what agreed contractual payment you're entitled to beyond statutory rights though...there may be something in there with reference to you being under an obligation to mitigate your losses (ie not sit around on your arse all day instead of actively looking for new work) in which case the new job could have a bearing, but only from the perspective of the amount of an award, not your entitlement to it in principle.

 

Finally I should just add, I'm not an employment lawyer. :D

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Mr Noisewater, Mr Mag and Mr Operator, thank you for the help, the drinks are on me and if i can be of service, just ask.

 

Policy is 3.5 weeks salary for every year of service. 7 years service is therefore 22.5 weeks of tax-free salary.

 

If this comes off, i'm fucking laughing. :D

 

Big if like.

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Isn't it the case that it isn't technically redundancy if they do offer in their view an equivalent position and you just choose not to take it? I don't know if it has to be in the same place or the same line of work.

 

Yeah, this all depends on whether i can persuade them that the two roles are not equivalent. Thats not a concern really as if they say they are then fair enough, just didnt want to do anything dodgy as i may end up back here one day.

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Isn't it the case that it isn't technically redundancy if they do offer in their view an equivalent position and you just choose not to take it? I don't know if it has to be in the same place or the same line of work.

 

Would depend on the individual circs. For instance a cleaner living in Plymouth would be made redundant if the firm offered him/her an alternative position in Aberdeen. A chief executive in charge of that company might not be made redundant if the location of the work suddenly switched from one place to the other.

 

Anyways it seems from Chez's post that he's saying there's no issue on that score. They're actually looking at offering him the redundancy package.

 

Presumably Chez is pushing a brush round the u-bend rather than pushing through hard business deals. :D

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Isn't it the case that it isn't technically redundancy if they do offer in their view an equivalent position and you just choose not to take it? I don't know if it has to be in the same place or the same line of work.

 

Would depend on the individual circs. For instance a cleaner living in Plymouth would be made redundant if the firm offered him/her an alternative position in Aberdeen. A chief executive in charge of that company might not be made redundant if the location of the work suddenly switched from one place to the other.

 

Anyways it seems from Chez's post that he's saying there's no issue on that score. They're actually looking at offering him the redundancy package.

 

Presumably Chez is pushing a brush round the u-bend rather than pushing through hard business deals. :D

 

It doesn't sound like he has been offered it though. I would be concerned if I was him as that's a fair whack to lose on the equivalency point. I would take independant advice on his sector/role and any precedents.

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Isn't it the case that it isn't technically redundancy if they do offer in their view an equivalent position and you just choose not to take it? I don't know if it has to be in the same place or the same line of work.

 

Would depend on the individual circs. For instance a cleaner living in Plymouth would be made redundant if the firm offered him/her an alternative position in Aberdeen. A chief executive in charge of that company might not be made redundant if the location of the work suddenly switched from one place to the other.

 

Anyways it seems from Chez's post that he's saying there's no issue on that score. They're actually looking at offering him the redundancy package.

 

Presumably Chez is pushing a brush round the u-bend rather than pushing through hard business deals. :D

 

 

Ally McBeal :nufc:

 

Just getting my facts straight before i do anything. They are looking at offering me 2 roles, redundancy has never been mentioned. Because of the company situation, if i put myself forward for it then there is a chance they may say yes, depsite the 2 roles on offer.

 

Yanking close to £30k out of them when i'm leaving anyway makes me a right hard nosed cunt if you ask me. :rolleyes:

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Isn't it the case that it isn't technically redundancy if they do offer in their view an equivalent position and you just choose not to take it? I don't know if it has to be in the same place or the same line of work.

 

Would depend on the individual circs. For instance a cleaner living in Plymouth would be made redundant if the firm offered him/her an alternative position in Aberdeen. A chief executive in charge of that company might not be made redundant if the location of the work suddenly switched from one place to the other.

 

Anyways it seems from Chez's post that he's saying there's no issue on that score. They're actually looking at offering him the redundancy package.

 

Presumably Chez is pushing a brush round the u-bend rather than pushing through hard business deals. :D

 

It doesn't sound like he has been offered it though. I would be concerned if I was him as that's a fair whack to lose on the equivalency point. I would take independant advice on his sector/role and any precedents.

 

No I would agree with that actually tbh mate. Reading it back there is potentially an issue there depending on the views of the company (and ultimately case law). I'd just sought to address the redundancy point as if it were on offer, as this seemed to be what Chez was getting at.

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Isn't it the case that it isn't technically redundancy if they do offer in their view an equivalent position and you just choose not to take it? I don't know if it has to be in the same place or the same line of work.

 

Would depend on the individual circs. For instance a cleaner living in Plymouth would be made redundant if the firm offered him/her an alternative position in Aberdeen. A chief executive in charge of that company might not be made redundant if the location of the work suddenly switched from one place to the other.

 

Anyways it seems from Chez's post that he's saying there's no issue on that score. They're actually looking at offering him the redundancy package.

 

Presumably Chez is pushing a brush round the u-bend rather than pushing through hard business deals. :D

 

It doesn't sound like he has been offered it though. I would be concerned if I was him as that's a fair whack to lose on the equivalency point. I would take independant advice on his sector/role and any precedents.

 

No I would agree with that actually tbh mate. Reading it back there is potentially an issue there depending on the views of the company (and ultimately case law). I'd just sought to address the redundancy point as if it were on offer, as this seemed to be what Chez was getting at.

 

Am concerned now but not clear. Whats the potential issue?

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Isn't it the case that it isn't technically redundancy if they do offer in their view an equivalent position and you just choose not to take it? I don't know if it has to be in the same place or the same line of work.

 

Would depend on the individual circs. For instance a cleaner living in Plymouth would be made redundant if the firm offered him/her an alternative position in Aberdeen. A chief executive in charge of that company might not be made redundant if the location of the work suddenly switched from one place to the other.

 

Anyways it seems from Chez's post that he's saying there's no issue on that score. They're actually looking at offering him the redundancy package.

 

Presumably Chez is pushing a brush round the u-bend rather than pushing through hard business deals. :D

 

It doesn't sound like he has been offered it though. I would be concerned if I was him as that's a fair whack to lose on the equivalency point. I would take independant advice on his sector/role and any precedents.

 

No I would agree with that actually tbh mate. Reading it back there is potentially an issue there depending on the views of the company (and ultimately case law). I'd just sought to address the redundancy point as if it were on offer, as this seemed to be what Chez was getting at.

 

Am concerned now but not clear. Whats the potential issue?

 

Just equivalence mate, as Rico (and you) have touched on already. You're best placed to judge that (with advice) as you know your sector.

 

I had advised as tho redundancy was on the table (ie do I need to disclose the future post/does it affect any redunancy?)

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Manc-Mag, whilst were on, where can I find out if a will had been written. Basically my great grandmother ( had a few quid) died a few years back and there was supposedly no will written but the daughter who handled all the shite is now bigging it up buying 200k houses at the age of 68, fitted kitchens the Jewson lot and she previously never had a pot to piss in.

 

Could there have been a will and she's never let on?

Edited by Wacky Jnr
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Mr Noisewater, Mr Mag and Mr Operator, thank you for the help, the drinks are on me and if i can be of service, just ask.

 

Policy is 3.5 weeks salary for every year of service. 7 years service is therefore 22.5 weeks of tax-free salary.

 

If this comes off, i'm fucking laughing. :lol:

 

Big if like.

 

Only if the total sum is less than £30k

 

Just gone through exactly the same thing. Think I mentioned it on here late last year that my role was up for redundancy. Thing dragged on for a while with them pretty keen to keep me on. They ended up offering me a role in the, not yet created, projects team. However, unbeknown to them, a company I had dealt with in the past had contacted me, I'd had a couple of meetings with them and had verbally agreed to join.

 

Told my line manager, thanks but no thanks, I'll just take my redundancy. Agreed on a end date that gave me enough time to train up a couple of staff members. Echoed that date to my future employer and they were happy.

 

So finished at one place and started at the next the following week... with a nice big chunk of change to follow! :lol:

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