ChezGiven 0 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 What have we done to our youth? Nowt its all that Grand theft auto and gansta rap. is it? serious question. Either that or 11 years of soft ***** in government. Probably both. Cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, wargames....kids have always pretended to kill people for fun. Doesn't turn them into murderers. When i was a kid, we sometimes used sticks as replica guns, slightly different to an absorbing 3-dimensional interface with high definition graphical realisation of every aggression your parents have taught you. Seriously (it obviously isnt the only cause) its obvious that media (video games, movies, tv) has an influence as the 14 year olds who are stabbing other kids refer to 'gangsta' culture and use it as a reference point with respect to the violence. How do you think they learnt about such things and which media are they using the most? Its worth bearing in mind at least. When I was young, rival punk gangs would go down the fairground at easter with knives and bats and beat the everloving shit out of each other. Years before that the mods and rockers were at each others throats. When my dad was young the Teddy Boys kicked off the 1958 Notting Hill riots. Hells angels have killed many people and injured far more while adopting an image associated with Heavy Metal. "Gangsta" culture is just the current way to attribute youth violence to the must popular music of the time..Hip-Hop. You don't need to learn to be violent, it's innate, we're hunter gatherers. You need diversions for kids to stop them stabbing each other out of pure boredom. Like GTA4 or Brighton Rock provide. None of those groups were full of 14 year olds and dont pretend they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9189 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 The point, Chez, is that violent youths are not a new phenomenon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Thanks for explaining the obvious Fish, i'm old enough to remember Punk the first time and dont need a history lesson on youth culture. The point being made by me, is that violence (and murders in particular) is occuring in younger age groups. "More violent in younger ages" just to really spell it out. Pointing a few violent scuffles in the 50's in youg men doesnt compare to 14 year olds murdering each other. Not in my world anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 What have we done to our youth? Nowt its all that Grand theft auto and gansta rap. is it? serious question. Either that or 11 years of soft ***** in government. Probably both. Cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, wargames....kids have always pretended to kill people for fun. Doesn't turn them into murderers. When i was a kid, we sometimes used sticks as replica guns, slightly different to an absorbing 3-dimensional interface with high definition graphical realisation of every aggression your parents have taught you. Seriously (it obviously isnt the only cause) its obvious that media (video games, movies, tv) has an influence as the 14 year olds who are stabbing other kids refer to 'gangsta' culture and use it as a reference point with respect to the violence. How do you think they learnt about such things and which media are they using the most? Its worth bearing in mind at least. When I was young, rival punk gangs would go down the fairground at easter with knives and bats and beat the everloving shit out of each other. Years before that the mods and rockers were at each others throats. When my dad was young the Teddy Boys kicked off the 1958 Notting Hill riots. Hells angels have killed many people and injured far more while adopting an image associated with Heavy Metal. "Gangsta" culture is just the current way to attribute youth violence to the must popular music of the time..Hip-Hop. You don't need to learn to be violent, it's innate, we're hunter gatherers. You need diversions for kids to stop them stabbing each other out of pure boredom. Like GTA4 or Brighton Rock provide. None of those groups were full of 14 year olds and dont pretend they were. I think that's more due to the breakdown of the family unit and the freedoms that that affords Britains youth. If your single mother was only 14 when she had you herself, she'd have to be a remarkable woman to bring up a well disciplined child, sacrificing her own youth to ensure discipline is upheld. Lord of the flies had the measure of young teenagers back in the early fifties. Left to their own devices they'll eventually start killing each other. This was recognised before xbox's and PS3s and Boys N The Hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 The kids involved in this years murders were often from 'decent' backgrounds in that they had a family unit with even working parents in some cases. Its a complex picture of course but gamers do get all defensive about this issue whilst essentially talking as much shit as the hysterics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 (edited) The kids involved in this years murders were often from 'decent' backgrounds in that they had a family unit with even working parents in some cases. Its a complex picture of course but gamers do get all defensive about this issue whilst essentially talking as much shit as the hysterics. Are you talking about the kids killed or the kids doing the stabbing? I didn't think much detail of the accused was released until after a trial....especially if they're under 18. And if you meant the other way, I don't see how a victims hobbies could be blamed for their death. EDIT: That's not to say the accused didn't have a solid traditional family life, but I'd suggest if they did, they got in with a bad crowd who (on the whole) didn't. Edited July 10, 2008 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9189 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 The point is Chez, these games are massively influential on kids, of course they are. But they're not supposed to get into the hands of impressionable kids. That's where the kids are being let down by bad parenting. You wouldn't take a 14 year old to watch Scum, so why would you let them play Grand Theft Auto. I agree that the boundaries of taste and decency are being stretched, but as a consumer you've always got the option of not buying it. I know I'm rambling a bit, but the crux of my point is this; Computer Games don't kill people, just like Movies and Music don't kill people. p.s. I misread your previous post which is why I pointed out the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jusoda Kid 1 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Am I bad for letting my 7 year old daughter watch Kes? with my guidance of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9189 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 No, you're bad for other reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jusoda Kid 1 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 No, you're bad for other reasons. Tell me something I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 The point is Chez, these games are massively influential on kids, of course they are. But they're not supposed to get into the hands of impressionable kids. That's where the kids are being let down by bad parenting. You wouldn't take a 14 year old to watch Scum, so why would you let them play Grand Theft Auto. I agree that the boundaries of taste and decency are being stretched, but as a consumer you've always got the option of not buying it. I know I'm rambling a bit, but the crux of my point is this; Computer Games don't kill people, just like Movies and Music don't kill people. p.s. I misread your previous post which is why I pointed out the obvious. If you lot want to cut to the chase it is actually about the Americanisation of our culture and all the violence and banal nonsense that comes with it. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 The kids involved in this years murders were often from 'decent' backgrounds in that they had a family unit with even working parents in some cases. Its a complex picture of course but gamers do get all defensive about this issue whilst essentially talking as much shit as the hysterics. Are you talking about the kids killed or the kids doing the stabbing? I didn't think much detail of the accused was released until after a trial....especially if they're under 18. And if you meant the other way, I don't see how a victims hobbies could be blamed for their death. EDIT: That's not to say the accused didn't have a solid traditional family life, but I'd suggest if they did, they got in with a bad crowd who (on the whole) didn't. Having conversed with me online for about 3 years now, i thought you might have worked out i'm not an utter spacker. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7436141.stm They reduced the age from 18 to 16 in response to the experience of dealing with these crimes. Someone has to present a case and a reason to change these things. You've got the ages of the boys / men charged in this link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7395875.stm Plenty of examples of MURDERS on 14 year olds by 16 year olds. Nevermind the rest .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 (edited) The kids involved in this years murders were often from 'decent' backgrounds in that they had a family unit with even working parents in some cases. Its a complex picture of course but gamers do get all defensive about this issue whilst essentially talking as much shit as the hysterics. Are you talking about the kids killed or the kids doing the stabbing? I didn't think much detail of the accused was released until after a trial....especially if they're under 18. And if you meant the other way, I don't see how a victims hobbies could be blamed for their death. EDIT: That's not to say the accused didn't have a solid traditional family life, but I'd suggest if they did, they got in with a bad crowd who (on the whole) didn't. Having conversed with me online for about 3 years now, i thought you might have worked out i'm not an utter spacker. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7436141.stm They reduced the age from 18 to 16 in response to the experience of dealing with these crimes. Someone has to present a case and a reason to change these things. You've got the ages of the boys / men charged in this link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7395875.stm Plenty of examples of MURDERS on 14 year olds by 16 year olds. Nevermind the rest .... Nee offense intended like. I'm not disputing that young people are both perpetrators and victims of these crimes. I'm saying it's nowt to do with the entertainment industry and all about broken families and the inability of younger (generally single) parents to instill discipline. Neither of which are mentioned in those links (). Edited July 14, 2008 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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