Anth 54 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I know a few IT managers and when they have someones CV that has MCSE 95% of them go straight in the bin. That's a shame to be honest, though as mentioned the whole certification thing is probably devalued due to people cheating. I can assure you that people who actually gain them fairly can be very knowledgeable in MS server products. The majority of well paid Infrastructure support /design jobs that use Microsoft stuff ask for them. I was interviewed for a systems admin job within the NHS recently and at an MCSA was the minimum requirement My friend is IT Director at the NHS here in Leeds and they use CISCO and will not touch MCSE cert peeps. I suppose it depends on the PCT / personal opinions of the person interviewing / and the job description. I.e if the job was for a server admin I'm not sure why a Cisco certifiaction would be looked at in favour of an MS cert? The first support job I found here http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/JobSearch/JobDetai...mp;LIds2=eG,B_H Mentions "The ideal candidate will hold an MCP certification (or higher, or similar)" As with all professions imho, nothing beats actual hands on experience, I just think MS certs get a bad press when they are canny useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4003 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 ITIL isn't a qualification per se, it's an industry standard that IT depts are beginning to work under. I know - I've done the course (and got the qualification ) Another thing about these things in general is the built in expiry which is why I think recent job history is more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajax_andy 0 Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 This thread's taken an interesting turn. I have considered studying CISCO before but never follwoed through with it. Which of the 2 would be the best course to study? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anth 54 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 This thread's taken an interesting turn. I have considered studying CISCO before but never follwoed through with it. Which of the 2 would be the best course to study? The CCNA is highly regarded and alot of places use Cisco kit for their infrastructure, I suppose it depends on what you fancy doing job wise, networking jobs may ask for cisco where as server admin jobs will ask for qualifications in Operating systems / applications etc, some jobs will overlap and ask for both, all in my humble opinion of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden McGroin 5059 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 This thread's taken an interesting turn. I have considered studying CISCO before but never follwoed through with it. Which of the 2 would be the best course to study? Out of the two, definitely Cisco. I passed my CCNA a year or so ago. I was going to go for the CCNP but decided to have a change of direction and recently passed my VCP (Vmware VSphere). Virtualisation is definitely worth a look if you haven't decided what avenue to pursue yet. They reckon the average VCP earns about £40-50k - outside of London. You have to attend a course though. Costs about £1500+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4003 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 (edited) I think the size of the place is pretty key - our IT production department only has 6 people so they tend to be jack's of all trades. I'm not sure about certification but they've all done both MS and CISCO training - though I think the more technical aspects of the latter in terms of infratructure are outsourced. Edited October 22, 2009 by NJS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Ok, I'll be the first to say what a lot of us are thinking: You lot are aal GEEKS. I'll carry on with my qualifications from TUOL and TSOHK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajax_andy 0 Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 This thread's taken an interesting turn. I have considered studying CISCO before but never follwoed through with it. Which of the 2 would be the best course to study? The CCNA is highly regarded and alot of places use Cisco kit for their infrastructure, I suppose it depends on what you fancy doing job wise, networking jobs may ask for cisco where as server admin jobs will ask for qualifications in Operating systems / applications etc, some jobs will overlap and ask for both, all in my humble opinion of course I think the next stage of my career would be best served teaching MCSE/MCITP so I think i'll do the MCITP and then once i'm qualified study the CCNA. I'm not very experienced when it comes to networking so probably starting off with MCITP might be the best step as I do have some undertanding of Windows enviroments and installing software on LAN's from a previous job.... not that I remember much of it now but it might come flooding back to me once I start learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anth 54 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 This thread's taken an interesting turn. I have considered studying CISCO before but never follwoed through with it. Which of the 2 would be the best course to study? The CCNA is highly regarded and alot of places use Cisco kit for their infrastructure, I suppose it depends on what you fancy doing job wise, networking jobs may ask for cisco where as server admin jobs will ask for qualifications in Operating systems / applications etc, some jobs will overlap and ask for both, all in my humble opinion of course I think the next stage of my career would be best served teaching MCSE/MCITP so I think i'll do the MCITP and then once i'm qualified study the CCNA. I'm not very experienced when it comes to networking so probably starting off with MCITP might be the best step as I do have some undertanding of Windows enviroments and installing software on LAN's from a previous job.... not that I remember much of it now but it might come flooding back to me once I start learning. Even if the MS stuff requires you learn networking to a certain degree, with subjects such as routing and subnetting. Cisco guides are best for that though. They do a brilliant ip addressing and subnetting guide on their website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajax_andy 0 Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 This thread's taken an interesting turn. I have considered studying CISCO before but never follwoed through with it. Which of the 2 would be the best course to study? The CCNA is highly regarded and alot of places use Cisco kit for their infrastructure, I suppose it depends on what you fancy doing job wise, networking jobs may ask for cisco where as server admin jobs will ask for qualifications in Operating systems / applications etc, some jobs will overlap and ask for both, all in my humble opinion of course I think the next stage of my career would be best served teaching MCSE/MCITP so I think i'll do the MCITP and then once i'm qualified study the CCNA. I'm not very experienced when it comes to networking so probably starting off with MCITP might be the best step as I do have some undertanding of Windows enviroments and installing software on LAN's from a previous job.... not that I remember much of it now but it might come flooding back to me once I start learning. . Even if the MS stuff requires you learn networking to a certain degree, with subjects such as routing and subnetting. Cisco guides are best for that though. They do a brilliant ip addressing and subnetting guide on their website My intention is to learn about networking I just meant I have a small amount of experience of networking in a windows 2000 environment from a past life, so that side of things would be the best option for me I think. I'll have a read of the CISCO stuff as well though so thanks for the suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anth 54 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 i took the CCNA 5yrs or so ago as a night class just out of interest, I don't work in networking i'm a developer...i know i'm a massive geek. But it was a much better course, It helped that the tutor that took class used it as some extra cash and worked as a network admin during the day for an insurance company so knew his stuff. Whereas i think the microsoft courses i've had were taken by people who just do and have done that as their main line of work for a lonnnnnng time, and outside of rhyming off what is in those Orange/Blue course books they don't know an awful lot. The cisco course tbh the whole thing was filled with practicals, getting to setup a ton of switches/routers and isdn terminals etc, much more interesting and valuable knowledge wise. CCNA anyone could pass it with learning off the course materials from books etc, same as any cert really, it's not hard to pass a multiple choice test. The difference with the cisco stuff is if you do end up working in that end of things without the practical experience you gain from the course (or from buying a couple of routers off ebay for the house), you'll end up looking like a twat when you try and put your knowledge to use. I think the microsoft certs since its all based in virtual machines and the like, and it's just more possible to bluff your way afterwards if you end up working in that end of things, why many people don't consider them as highly rated as other certs. ITIL/Prince2 will bore the balls off you if you prefer doing practical work like development/networking etc. It had to do Prince2 at the start of the year, and it was hellish, not in a hard way, more in a keeping your eyes open way. I suppose it does help structure project work though. I've never had that problem when I have been on Microsoft courses to be honest, on all of the courses I have done the trainers have been keeping their hand in industry and know their stuff. I dont think the issue is whether the trainer is Cisco or Microsoft, like you say, your man worked in IT as well as training which helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 PRINCE is a fascinating subject like, isn't it? Fuck me. No one can enjoy that man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I had to do it as part of my degree. They've recently said that all members of the dept should be PRINCE2 trained... thank fuck I can get out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4003 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I think things like PRINCE can become more about the methodolgy in itself than the reasons behind it which make sense. One of the reasons why I have no ambitions to describe myself as a "project manager" is because of such what I think of as restrictive rules. My strengths are troubleshooting and problem solving and sometimes I don't want to have to do all the paperwork involved with doing things "properly". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anth 54 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Aye sometimes it seems like your project becomes more about the processes than the actual outcome It would be quite easy to miss a deadline worrying about "managing stage boundries" or perfecting your risk log. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Can you imagine sitting in a pub with this lot!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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