NJS

There was a run of classic Simpsons on last weekend including the one where Homer is elected Union rep and because he's scared of sounding stupid, he keeps his mouth shut during talks. Mr Burns thinks this makes Homer a negotiating genius who holds all the cards so panics and offers him a great deal. That's how I imagine Scudamore negotiating with Sky.

Surely people have now realised these great trade deals are a myth? Even wto is a minefield.

I always thought writing people off as evil when they're ten was a bit extreme. Not saying they didn't know what they did was wrong or anything like that but still.

I sort of agree with that but it doesn't suit either end of the spectrum - you could argue a middle ground compromise makes sense but the divide is too fractious for that to be accepted.

That's exactly what I was saying a couple of days ago - I think a lot of the "leavers were stupid" school of pv advocates have still not acknowledged why people voted and suggested action (I don't think leavers were right but I understand some of the underlying attitudes).

Maybe "scares" is the wrong word but as I've said, I think those assuming its outcome are taking it too much for granted.

I've heard/read several "we used to rule seas" type statements from leavers since the ref - hence the remark about wanting to return not to the 1950s but to the 1590s.

They are but still substantial. It seems to be a cities versus rural split generally. I see Clinton is thinking of running again - that'll ensure he wins again.

Never been a huge fan of Gordon Brown but he seems to have talked a lot of sense today.

I've heard people going on about fighting for freedom and what would have happened if Germany had "won". Considering the vague reasons for the war in the first place I think if there had been an agreed ceasefire at any point without a winner as many wars have finished I think the world would actually be a better place. I don't think the Nazis would have arisen but for the punitive reparations imposed in "defeat".

I was possibly reading too much into Barnier's "just say the word" rhetoric about revocation. I'm unsure about the second vote because another campaign would be divisive again and I'm not sure the result would be as clearcut as we on the sensible side hope which wouldn't bring any sense of closure. It does make sense but I think the sense of superiority and attitude of the supporters is very unhelpful.

I don't think you're to blame at all. That's definitely Cameron and the swivel eyed tories plus Murdoch and Dacre. I also agree the harder end of the spectrum are ignoring the remain voters but that's par for course given they're cunts anyway.

Legally article 50 can be revoked, politically its a non-starter.

40 years of at best centrism suggests you're wrong.

I meant that in the sense you give the impression of wanting to stick two fingers up to all the leavers to the greatest extent. I also think Norway or some form of it is the best way forward now.