Is MP3 and other downloadable music the death of the LP release?

[sammynb 2929]

I've been reading an interesting biography on Joy Division and something that was mentioned in it has really struck a cord recently, so I was wondering what other people's opinions are on the subject?

 

The author was talking about the band with Martin Hannett's production ability to produce a journey through each side of the albums, Unknown pleasures and Closer, something which they point out is now being lost first through the CD format's ability to be a whole release (no pause as you turn it over) and more so with mp3, etc and how less and less people actually listen to a whole album, instead chosing to create compiles of their favourite songs.

Further more Hannett's demise in the industry was his inability to get his head around the fact that CD releases were no longer a musical journey but 14 singles packaged onto one release, which must apply even more to the current medium.

Also gone is the art of run off track releases, anyone ever heard The Glove's (Robert Smith and Steve Severin's band) musical interludes on the LP Blue Sunshine between each track? Very entertaining.

So that, the cover/inner sleeve artwork and the run off track messages on vinyl, are a whole musical art form that is being lost.

 

So what do you think? Is it better to get that song you like cheap through whatever site you use or is it important to maintain the whole "album" release concept?

Would releases by Sigur Ros or Radiohead (examples only people if you don't like them then think of someone's work you do like) be as effective/interesting/appealing if you only heard the one track?

Or is it so much better not having to listen to that track 8 (and it's always track 8 because all musos know you've just got settled in by that stage and aren't going to get up and forward past it), which is obviously just arty wank for the sake of arty wank?

Edited October 23, 2006 by sammynb

[Tom 13885]

Hmm - Radiohead - Kid A - Track 8 - Idioteque

 

 

Arty but not wank

 

i really need a whole album to be honest,

 

at least 11 tracks

[sammynb 2929]

Hmm - Radiohead - Kid A - Track 8 - Idioteque

 

 

Arty but not wank

 

i really need a whole album to be honest,

 

at least 11 tracks

"One man's art is another man's wank"

[Tom 13885]

Hmm - Radiohead - Kid A - Track 8 - Idioteque

 

 

Arty but not wank

 

i really need a whole album to be honest,

 

at least 11 tracks

"One man's art is another man's wank"

 

More often than not.

[Rob W 0]

the death of vinyl has been forecast for at least 40 years TBH

[sammynb 2929]

the death of vinyl has been forecast for at least 40 years TBH

But this isn't about the death of vinyl Rob, this is about the death of long playing releases, no matter what format they are released on.

Vinyl and what we have lost between it and CD is just an example (you know for the kids that haven't seen anything but those little silver discs) and now the whole LP journey is being replaced by pop song length sound bites.

[Guest Patrokles]

It's entirely down to the bands themselves. I personally think that the divide between commercial and non-commercial music is more clearly defined than ever.

 

The radio is terrible, and it'll peddle the same old tripe over and over. The average person listens, doesn't realise there's more to it than that.

 

On the flip side, with the growth of the internet, etc, more bands than ever are able to cultivate worthwhile fan bases/do what the fuck they want musically.

 

The commercial music world always has been and always will be about the singles. I think it's entirely unfair to suggest that the LP journey is being replaced by pop song-length sound bites. Take, for example, Tim Hecker's work. (which I don't like at all, but it's a good example).

 

Also, look at the 50s doo-wop scene and the 60s girl groups; every band, without exception, is far and away best represented by their best-ofs. I love both genres dearly, but it's essentially the same principle as today's pop music; they just did it a lot better.

[sammynb 2929]

It's entirely down to the bands themselves. I personally think that the divide between commercial and non-commercial music is more clearly defined than ever.

 

The radio is terrible, and it'll peddle the same old tripe over and over. The average person listens, doesn't realise there's more to it than that.

 

On the flip side, with the growth of the internet, etc, more bands than ever are able to cultivate worthwhile fan bases/do what the fuck they want musically.

 

The commercial music world always has been and always will be about the singles. I think it's entirely unfair to suggest that the LP journey is being replaced by pop song-length sound bites. Take, for example, Tim Hecker's work. (which I don't like at all, but it's a good example).

 

Also, look at the 50s doo-wop scene and the 60s girl groups; every band, without exception, is far and away best represented by their best-ofs. I love both genres dearly, but it's essentially the same principle as today's pop music; they just did it a lot better.

Up until that point you almost sounded knowledgeable.

The artists of the dowap period of jazz are represented by their "best of" releases purley because some mulitnational record exec decided to repackage what they had in their archive and most LP releases by 60s girl groups were nothing more than a best of anyway! The best example is mowtown, a record company whose whole success was on their release of singles.

Back to dowop jazz, you cannot convince me that juju by Wayne Shorter, Charlie Parker with strings or a kind of blue (just three example from the bebop to dowop period that spring to mind) can be dismissed as pale second rate releases when compared to some A'n'R wankers choice of "hits" by the same artist!

 

By the way, the question wasn't about "the bands themselves" the question was, "Is mp3 and other downloadable music the death of the lp (long playing) release?

Singles will always be the "commerical" necessity of the industry but singles are the reason why mp3 distributed music will grow and grow and the concept of the LP journey is dying.

[Rob W 0]

One thing that drives me mad is that radio programmes have a "Top Album slot" and then play the bloody hit single off it..............................

 

But people like to OWN the hard copy - its just a basic instinct - so I reckon albums will continue to sell

[sammynb 2929]

One thing that drives me mad is that radio programmes have a "Top Album slot" and then play the bloody hit single off it..............................

 

But people like to OWN the hard copy - its just a basic instinct - so I reckon albums will continue to sell

Hope your right dad. (You don't own any Bob Seger by any chance?)

[Rob W 0]

Doubt it - I was too poor in those far off days............................

 

I did have a run in with Euan McColl (aka Jimmie Miller) mind .................

[sammynb 2929]

It's entirely down to the bands themselves. I personally think that the divide between commercial and non-commercial music is more clearly defined than ever.

 

The radio is terrible, and it'll peddle the same old tripe over and over. The average person listens, doesn't realise there's more to it than that.

 

On the flip side, with the growth of the internet, etc, more bands than ever are able to cultivate worthwhile fan bases/do what the fuck they want musically.

 

The commercial music world always has been and always will be about the singles. I think it's entirely unfair to suggest that the LP journey is being replaced by pop song-length sound bites. Take, for example, Tim Hecker's work. (which I don't like at all, but it's a good example).

 

Also, look at the 50s doo-wop scene and the 60s girl groups; every band, without exception, is far and away best represented by their best-ofs. I love both genres dearly, but it's essentially the same principle as today's pop music; they just did it a lot better.

Up until that point you almost sounded knowledgeable.

The artists of the dowap period of jazz are represented by their "best of" releases purley because some mulitnational record exec decided to repackage what they had in their archive and most LP releases by 60s girl groups were nothing more than a best of anyway! The best example is mowtown, a record company whose whole success was on their release of singles.

Back to dowop jazz, you cannot convince me that juju by Wayne Shorter, Charlie Parker with strings or a kind of blue (just three example from the bebop to dowop period that spring to mind) can be dismissed as pale second rate releases when compared to some A'n'R wankers choice of "hits" by the same artist!

 

By the way, the question wasn't about "the bands themselves" the question was, "Is mp3 and other downloadable music the death of the lp (long playing) release?

Singles will always be the "commerical" necessity of the industry but singles are the reason why mp3 distributed music will grow and grow and the concept of the LP journey is dying.

 

Patrokles, I do apologise I have made mistake and had a brain fade, confusing doo-wap and dobop jazz. My mistake, hence I will apologise and not cover my mistake by deleting my post, allowing the world and gemmill (Hi Scotty) the opportunity to see I am a tool.

But further to the discussion, you are still incorrect because let's be honest doo-wap as a genre is just a collection of traditional songs (hit singles in other words) performed as nothing more than barber's quartets or as non gender specific mowtown girl band sound-a-likes.

 

Just for clarification, an LP isn't just the sum of 12 plus tracks, any best of, by any band fits that requirement.

An LP is the white album or Ok computer or london calling or movement or whatever floats your boat.

A lot of song from various periods in a musical life lumped together does not make and LP except in A'n'R record selling eyes.

[Guest alex]

'A Kind of Blue' is absolutely class btw.

[sammynb 2929]

'A Kind of Blue' is absolutely class btw.

Try juju by Wayne Shorter if you like a kind of blue.

[Guest alex]

'A Kind of Blue' is absolutely class btw.

Try juju by Wayne Shorter if you like a kind of blue.

Nice one, cheers Sammy

[Guest Patrokles]

It's entirely down to the bands themselves. I personally think that the divide between commercial and non-commercial music is more clearly defined than ever.

 

The radio is terrible, and it'll peddle the same old tripe over and over. The average person listens, doesn't realise there's more to it than that.

 

On the flip side, with the growth of the internet, etc, more bands than ever are able to cultivate worthwhile fan bases/do what the fuck they want musically.

 

The commercial music world always has been and always will be about the singles. I think it's entirely unfair to suggest that the LP journey is being replaced by pop song-length sound bites. Take, for example, Tim Hecker's work. (which I don't like at all, but it's a good example).

 

Also, look at the 50s doo-wop scene and the 60s girl groups; every band, without exception, is far and away best represented by their best-ofs. I love both genres dearly, but it's essentially the same principle as today's pop music; they just did it a lot better.

Up until that point you almost sounded knowledgeable.

The artists of the dowap period of jazz are represented by their "best of" releases purley because some mulitnational record exec decided to repackage what they had in their archive and most LP releases by 60s girl groups were nothing more than a best of anyway! The best example is mowtown, a record company whose whole success was on their release of singles.

Back to dowop jazz, you cannot convince me that juju by Wayne Shorter, Charlie Parker with strings or a kind of blue (just three example from the bebop to dowop period that spring to mind) can be dismissed as pale second rate releases when compared to some A'n'R wankers choice of "hits" by the same artist!

 

By the way, the question wasn't about "the bands themselves" the question was, "Is mp3 and other downloadable music the death of the lp (long playing) release?

Singles will always be the "commerical" necessity of the industry but singles are the reason why mp3 distributed music will grow and grow and the concept of the LP journey is dying.

 

Patrokles, I do apologise I have made mistake and had a brain fade, confusing doo-wap and dobop jazz. My mistake, hence I will apologise and not cover my mistake by deleting my post, allowing the world and gemmill (Hi Scotty) the opportunity to see I am a tool.

But further to the discussion, you are still incorrect because let's be honest doo-wap as a genre is just a collection of traditional songs (hit singles in other words) performed as nothing more than barber's quartets or as non gender specific mowtown girl band sound-a-likes.

 

Just for clarification, an LP isn't just the sum of 12 plus tracks, any best of, by any band fits that requirement.

An LP is the white album or Ok computer or london calling or movement or whatever floats your boat.

A lot of song from various periods in a musical life lumped together does not make and LP except in A'n'R record selling eyes.

 

Apology accepted, but you then proceed to entirely miss the second point of my post, which is that patchy LPs have existed for half a century now. Your argument is facile because you reference high-points from the entire canon of popular music, spread over many many years. There are enough bands nowadays producing good LPs. I can only suggest that you've been too busy romanticising the bright spots in the past to really spend enough time delving into the huge amount of great stuff being made nowadays, or to notice the equal amount of patchy shite that was being released throughout the years.

 

Mp3 is simply a different way of distributing music. Bands don't make one-off mp3s. They make albums. Neutral Milk Hotel's 'In The Aeroplane Over the Sea' is best listened to as an album. As I mentioned, Tim Hecker's three albums have all clearly been designed as LPs. Numerous other bands have released things recently with small snatches of inconsequential music between songs, which, to be honest, have never done it for me. You talk about London Calling and Movement, but I fail to see anything those albums offer that countless other recent albums don't. The Low Lows new album is clearly very deliberately crafted as an LP. If you listen to Craig Finn talk about the theory behind the new Hold Steady album, track sequencing, etc, you'll realise that nothing has really changed at all, not amongst the people who matter. Stop listening to Radio 1 and actually invest time in finding out about all the wonderful shit out there, and maybe you'll realise.

 

As for the notion of people just starting to making compilations of their favourite songs, mix-tapes have been around for a quarter of a century. Some people just prefer to listen to the songs they actually like, rather than slog through a track they don't, just because it's part of the musical journey.

Edited October 23, 2006 by Patrokles

[Meenzer 14117]

Mp3 is simply a different way of distributing music. Bands don't make one-off mp3s. They make albums.

It's not that simple, though, is it? Surely one of the main benefits of the whole download "revolution" (cough) is that it gives artists the ability to release material at their own will, i.e. as individual songs, "EPs", "albums", indeed in whatever form or quantity and at whatever stage of production they desire, irrespective of record company parameters and timelines of the "album and four single releases with diminishing chart returns" variety? It might well still be the case that a lot of bands, particularly those signed to major labels, still adopt (or are forced to adopt) "one album every 18 months and a couple of tours" (say) as the timeframe that dictates their actions, but we're still in the early days of the digital music age, so I don't see any reason why the trend shouldn't keep moving in a more random and free direction.

[Rob W 0]

well they've always had the ABILITY to release one-offs etc - and a (very) few did

 

I suspect the average band has the techncial ability of a hedgehog and just can't be bothered to go thru all the work, the PR, the effort for each track or so when they can hang about on sex 'n drugs for a year and then concentrate all the real work in a couple of months around an album

[sammynb 2929]

Mp3 is simply a different way of distributing music. Bands don't make one-off mp3s. They make albums.

It's not that simple, though, is it? Surely one of the main benefits of the whole download "revolution" (cough) is that it gives artists the ability to release material at their own will, i.e. as individual songs, "EPs", "albums", indeed in whatever form or quantity and at whatever stage of production they desire, irrespective of record company parameters and timelines of the "album and four single releases with diminishing chart returns" variety? It might well still be the case that a lot of bands, particularly those signed to major labels, still adopt (or are forced to adopt) "one album every 18 months and a couple of tours" (say) as the timeframe that dictates their actions, but we're still in the early days of the digital music age, so I don't see any reason why the trend shouldn't keep moving in a more random and free direction.

But that's just it isn't it? With the download "revolution" gone is the need for a band to actually construct a linear journey, because the confines and restrictions of pressing play on an LP, whatever format, and the listener is expected to passively join the journey the band laid out by their choice of song selection.

 

Apology accepted, but you then proceed to entirely miss the second point of my post, which is that patchy LPs have existed for half a century now. Your argument is facile because you reference high-points from the entire canon of popular music, spread over many many years. There are enough bands nowadays producing good LPs. I can only suggest that you've been too busy romanticising the bright spots in the past to really spend enough time delving into the huge amount of great stuff being made nowadays, or to notice the equal amount of patchy shite that was being released throughout the years.

 

Mp3 is simply a different way of distributing music. Bands don't make one-off mp3s. They make albums. Neutral Milk Hotel's 'In The Aeroplane Over the Sea' is best listened to as an album. As I mentioned, Tim Hecker's three albums have all clearly been designed as LPs. Numerous other bands have released things recently with small snatches of inconsequential music between songs, which, to be honest, have never done it for me. You talk about London Calling and Movement, but I fail to see anything those albums offer that countless other recent albums don't. The Low Lows new album is clearly very deliberately crafted as an LP. If you listen to Craig Finn talk about the theory behind the new Hold Steady album, track sequencing, etc, you'll realise that nothing has really changed at all, not amongst the people who matter. Stop listening to Radio 1 and actually invest time in finding out about all the wonderful shit out there, and maybe you'll realise.

 

As for the notion of people just starting to making compilations of their favourite songs, mix-tapes have been around for a quarter of a century. Some people just prefer to listen to the songs they actually like, rather than slog through a track they don't, just because it's part of the musical journey.

Fucking hell Patrokles, you'd argue a pie is a pastie, wouldn't you?

But you would still be wrong.

I've just finished the beta band's heros to zeros, something not from the "reference high-points from the entire canon of popular music, spread over many many years," and just like the releases from many a contempary artist I can name that you haven't heard of, in response to your points of reference, it can back up the arguement that only by listening to the LP do you get the music experience they, the auteur, intended the audience to experience.

But that would be pointless if others who read this thread don't know who we are talking about, wouldn't it, so the best examples are releases people are familiar with?

By the way, right now I'm listening to a compilation I made entitled, "fuck, just kill me now" which is meant to help me wallow in my low mood. It is purely and simply about how I feel and being able to listen to it in musical terms BUT it isn't about what the various artists on it intended and that is what is wrong about your arguement on this subject.

LP releases are about the auteur's projection of their music, compiles and hits type releases are nothing more that a collection of moments throw together and the two are nothing alike bar the size of the disc they are upon.

[Guest alex]

well they've always had the ABILITY to release one-offs etc - and a (very) few did

 

I suspect the average band has the techncial ability of a hedgehog and just can't be bothered to go thru all the work, the PR, the effort for each track or so when they can hang about on sex 'n drugs for a year and then concentrate all the real work in a couple of months around an album

Much easier and cheaper to release one-offs now though and reach a far wider potential audience.

[Rob W 0]

Aye - but only the most "literate" will do it

 

After all that hard work getting near rthe top the tempatation to hand it all over to the record companies A&R (v traditional ) dept must be immense

 

I know I'd want to enjoy me sel' and not arse around promoting singles every few weeks.....................................

 

Edited October 24, 2006 by Rob W

[sammynb 2929]

Aye - but only the most "literate" will do it

 

After all that hard work getting near rthe top the tempatation to hand it all over to the record companies A&R (v traditional ) dept must be immense

 

I know I'd want to enjoy me sel' and not arse around promoting singles every few weeks.....................................

 

Rob let's be honest if you were a half decent muso it would be more:

and I can't find a good shooting up smilie

[David Kelly 1117]

The worry is that people who listen to music that's on the radio day in day out are the type of people who would most likely name their favourite albums as whoevers greatest hits because they cannot be bothered to listen to the artists catalogue and discover anything they haven't already heard.

These types will undoubtly utilise the oppertunity to reduce their expenditure and only download the songs they hear on the radio.

I would suspect that the more casual music listener will provide the major record labels with a large portion of their revenue and because of that we may see them becoming less interested in their artists spending any time and money developing albums that will no longer sell in the quantities they previously did.

This may in time see many 'artists' phasing out the album in favour of single releases.

Personally I wouldn't be too concerned as the artists I listen to (such as many of those mentioned Patrokles) are generally not heard on the radio and signed to independent record lables who I would assume make almost all of their revenue from album sales and would therefor be much more resistant to change.