Pacinofan

No it exposes you for the gobshite you are, being older than you means I've been there to see it more than you, and if you think that the FA Cup was bigger up till the 80's you're thicker than I already thought. I don't need to ask anyone what was the bigger trophy up till the 80's, they'd think I was as thick as you for even asking. 15,000 empty seats, is that us you're referring to? Didn't bring the average down much then did it? I agree Man U are, and have been, the best supported club for many decades through good and bad times.

Aye Man Utd had 11, so did we. The FA Cup was seen as THE prestigious trophy up to the 80s regardless how you like to rewrite history. In the 50s we played reserves in the league to save our team for the Cup Finals when we could've won both. They are facts. I've never seen much of Liverpool's respect around the world, I've seen a lot of ridicule, but at least people know who you are. I know plenty OOTs who are great too, but I like to know their reasons for supporting the club. In your case 99% of it will have been because when they were young you were a successful club. I hate that me, support fucking Swindon or Plymouth. If some Russian billionaire bought Tranmere and made them Premiership champions 3 times in a row, they'd have a bigger global support than Newcastle, Man City and Leeds put together. It's pathetic, I know who the proper clubs are, Man Utd are one. That is the biggest piece of shit you've written yet, it isn't me who's rewriting history. The FA Cup was the glamour cup, the day out for the fans, the closing of a hard fought season, a party that any club could star in, you just had to beat a number of teams from any of the four divisions, and you were through. It doesn't even compare with playing 42 games against the best teams in the country and being the one that wins the most points. I can guarantee the league title was the end all be all, the FA Cup was a wonderful occasion that was a great honour to win, but not nearly as much an honour as the title. I've travelled to many places with Liverpool, met hundreds of fans of other clubs, and for the most part there was friendliness and respect from most quarters. I dislike Man U but I don't hate them for other than 90 minutes at either football ground. I respect them a lot, but a proper club wouldn't have dropped the words football club from their badge for commercial reasons. Other than that I agree they're a proper club, whatever that is.

"Sorry in the 20th century up to 1971 we were the most successful club till Arsenal did the double, so we'd achieved as much as Liverpool. So we were level then. You have been far more successful than us for 40 years, and that's it. We're not bitter. How people see you around the world, well we have a lot of respect around the world, known by many as the longest suffering loyalest supporters in the world, which is true by any measure of top league football. However, when 99% of the foreign supporters couldn't tell you who Ian Rush or John Barnes are I pass them all off as irrelevant. Local fanbase is everything, Rufus from Brixton ringing Talksport up about how he supports Suarez over the racism issue, well he's irrelevant. The heartbeat of a club is the people in the area, the rest dilutes the reason a club exists, which is why I fully support LM's comments about his views being more valid than someone chipping in from Singapore Mags." So Man U having 11 trophies in that time doesn't count? As I said, many clubs have had their glory times, it's sustaining them that counts. We had won 7 titles by that time, you have 4 in your whole history, Sorry but the title is the benchmark no matter how much Geordies like to think it's the FA cup. I'll take your word that you have a lot of respect around the world, I haven't come across it I have to say. Our local support is healthy, I have no problem with OOTS or OOCS when their pedigree shows them to be true and knowledgeable fans, I've met so many of them who could buy and sell a number of local fans as far as the club and following it goes. We've all got them, the locals who call themselves diehards, but never get to the ground. It is hard to get tickets, but you can get them, and if you cared enough you would, give me an oot who has spent hours on the phone, paid for the privilege, and then travelled down or up from god knows where. Our club exists to win trophies and bring pride and happiness at being the best, to it's local area, which it has on numerous occasions. It's not a social club for locals to get together and have a good chat about how well the club is supported.

We'd won as many domestic trophies as anyone in English football up to 1971, so in the first 83 years of English football we were joint most successful club, during that period we were often THE best supported club in the country. Those two factors alone point to the fact we were a huge club in English football who should've maintained the position as the best. Astonishing mismanagement saw us drift away for a long time, anyone with a the slightest spor of a clue knows this. Are you saying that for the whole 83 years you were joint most successful club? Think you should check that. I thought you disregarded trophies other than the title? Most fans thinks their clubs have been huge at some point in their history, many have but it's been a short term thing for the most part. It's not really how you see your club, it's how others around the country and world see it, and you have to keep the trophies ticking over through what we regard as lean times for our clubs. We've won more silverware this century than any other club, it doesn't count though because Man U have won titles and that's the important one in most peoples eyes and I agree to an extent

Players who have played in their position previously?!?!?! Andy Carroll had to wear the number 9 shirt, which over the years has reached an iconic status, and in my biased view, Alan Shearer for instance was a better out and out striker than Liverpool have ever had. More to live up to at Liverpool, aye you were an amazing club in the 70s and 80s that's not in doubt, but you've never even competed for the title since 1990, we have seriously as well, it's all cliche's and bollocks, the fact is the pressure at Newcastle as everyone always says is immense, Jermaine Jenas said he couldn't cope for instance, and it's made even worse by the fact everyone knows we SHOULD be one of THE biggest clubs in England, but we have the monkey on our back of not winning a domestic trophy for 57 years. That is pressure. We'll have to disagree then, I wouldn't have swapped Rushy for Shearer ever. i thought Jenas couldn't cope with the off pitch pressure, hardly the same thing at all. By everyone, who do you mean? The tables don't lie, you have won 4 titles in your whole history, why would that give you any more right to be one of the biggest clubs? Even without title wins you've hardly been an ever present in the top 5, how many times have you finished there since the war for instance? I'd say finishing with 86 points in '09 was a decent challenge, it would have won the title most seasons.

Not going by the atmosphere at your derby game last night theres not. I was at Arsenal on Tuesday and they made more racket than you lot did in December as well. Fuckin Arsenal!! Most pathetic fixture in the English calendar in my view, always a shit atmosphere, always bores me to death. These days the press largely ignore it as well, so it's a lot more insignificant than it was when Everton were a big club in the 80s. I'd much rather watch Blackburn v Wolves, and I mean that. You really do worry about image don't you? I've been in the kop when there are better atmospheres than last night, but it wasn't that bad last night either. Quiet clapping is the new black . I don't really take much notice of how it comes across on the tele as sometimes it has to be a really big match before the crowd sound so loud it drowns out the commentator, that doesn't happen at many grounds these days. The best away crowds at Anfield are those who have nothing to lose, they're not going to move from mid table or they're safe from relegation. These are the ones who make the most noise.

Where have I stated a fact? There will be, they're better paid, have better owners, and have more chance of short term and probably long term success. My issue was with Souness' pathetic foundationless comments. You said you knew for a fact, that usually means you're talking through your arse. They also have a far superior history.

I think this has been taken out of context here. I'm no apologist for Souness, but I took him to mean that the pressure comes from the players who've played in their positions previously, and I can understand that to some extent, although I don't altogether agree with him. When those players go to training every day they're faced with pictures of former players running round with trophies, here, there and everywhere. It's meant to be an encouragement, or a 'you must give 100%' at all times type of example, but if you're not wholly confident then I suppose it could have a negative effect. Many of those ex players still live here so they come across them regularly. There;s a whole lot more to live up to at Liverpool than Newcastle whether you like it or not. I think he could have said that without mentioning their former clubs, but he didn't, so what? If you worry about silly comments like that, you'll live in a permanent state of rage. All clubs have things said about them that are either stupid or untrue, just live with it.

Of course both players are going to be under more pressure. Andy Carroll never cost a nut and came through the ranks at his home town club, any player would feel a bit of pressure going to a club for the fee he has where deep down he must know they're a pretty average team with about as much chance of winning the PL as RVP has of me buying him a pint and asking for his autograph. Souness though, does not just do the normal ex-Liverpool player thing by bullshitting them up, no, for good measure manages to have a pop at the club where he was a failure. You're right, it isn't the first time he's had a dig at our club and for all the success he had as a player, if he is such a 'winner', it must rankle with him. So, to sum up, he's a fucking Mug, 'no question about that', as Fergie would say. I know for a fact the intensity of playing for Newcastle United is as great, if not greater than it is playing for Liverpool. Fucking England internationals can't even cope with it, Jenas couldn't, Parker definitely couldn't and he admitted it. I hope his pacemaker fucks up. Compare running out the tunnel at SJP to doing the same at Anfield, at Anfield you'd just think "this is wank this, why didn't I sign for Man Utd". Your usual use of the word FACTS are so out of line with reality that you using the word is ludicrous. There are probably scores of players who would rather run out of the a Anfield tunnel than the SJP one tbf.

Nice one Tom. I believe you are right in FSG's flexibility, they do like to win, unlike the previous owners who were quite happy if we got 4th every season. I don't think FSG are there to make a quick profit, but I do think they want to build the club up and win trophies with a view to sell 6 or 7 years down the line at a big profit. Much the same way David Moores did. I suppose it's the way it's always been, owners put money in with a view to long term gain while enjoying the fruits of the club they've supported all of their lives. One thing I can say about David Moores and his predecessors, which might go some way to explain Liverpool's success, Chairmen and directors never took a dividend nor wage, everything went back in to the club. Their personal motto was 'we exist to win trophies' , unfortunately, we all have a different breed of owner now, and it's pot luck at how they'll turn out. Surely it's to Ashleys interest that he builds the club up if he hopes to sell at some point. Look at how much debt Man U have, but the club is worth over a billion purely because they've built on their success.

if you don't take a shot you don't score a goal In finance you can't keep missing, because the more you miss the less they allow you to shoot before you do yourself serious damage. We made some terrible signings & it cost us big money, the greater successes everyone enjoyed -but big money flops with no resale value on massive contracts was all too common an occurance. Obviously a few years ago we could compete, now we can't even come close. If we spent money like Liverpool or Man City we couldn't pay it back & regardless of the success it wouldn't give us europe because of financial fair play. The goal posts have been moved & we can't judge the current lot against the old lot because the finances involved dwarf what we could spent safely. Man City can spend £30-40m & they wont notice it's gone, Liverpool are the same, Arsenal's finances are extremely healthy from years of austerity in the transfer market & recently moving on a few players, Chelsea can spend massive amounts still, Man United make more than anyone. What makes you think Liverpool are in that situation Tom? When FSG came in they said right away that they wouldn’t be sugar daddies, in fact they only came into football because of the future FFP rules. They did say that there would be no acquisition debt on the club and any profits would be re-invested on the pitch. They also said that they would increase profits, which they have done and is ongoing. They also wanted the wage bill cutting, which Dalglish and Commolli did last summer by getting rid of 19 players. The nine players brought in on lower wages than some of the previous players. Torres, for example, was on 120,000, so Andy Carroll’s 70,000 a week was a big saving and so it went on. FSG’s net spend is 33 million, how can you put that in the same group as City?

dependant on chelsea and aresenal getting their act together, top 4 push in a couple of years isnt unlikely, nufc werent that ambitious under shephard and halls anyway ffs So maybe top 6 then depending on other teams. Does that warrant the levels of investment? Is it necessary to spend that much just to qualify for the Europa league? I take it you conceed Liverpool have no chance of winning the league Clubs spend for future seasons not just the present. Liverpool have took the steps to try and build a squad capable of challenging season on season. This summer wil have much less of a turnover of players overall, last summer saw 19 out, and 9 in, I expect this summer will see only two or three players come in, but I think they'll be established quality players.

The Alonso and Mascherano money was long gone. Alonso was sold summer '09 and Mascherano was sold by Hodgson summer 2010.

Let's agree that our expectations are different then. Why are yours different? Surely progress is judged on how much better you are with your manager and transfers on how much better off you are compared to last season? I know that's how are squad strengthening and manager change will be judged. As I've already edited in the previous post. We have already qualified for Europe, unlike last year when we didn't qualify at all.

Let's agree that our expectations are different then. We're already ahead because we've qualified for Europe, unlike last year.

No need, it's one mans word against another, so it's down to who you believe. unless of course you actually read the report. In which case you know thats not true and is just a(nother) lie spread about by LFC during this whole farse Yes, it is true. there was no available evidence either on camera nor first hand witness'

It would be even more refreshing if anyone other than a Liverpool fan took the time to read the full report, do a bit of research, and then make comments.

No need, it's one mans word against another, so it's down to who you believe. So you choose to support the guy who admitted using racist language? Did he admit using 'racist' language? As far as I'm aware he admitted to using a Spanish word once during a conversation taking place in Spanish, he neither thought it racist, nor used it to be racist, hence why he admitted to using it once.

We're already ahead of ourselves and you (atm) by qualifying for Europe, and with a piece of silverware. Without wanting to talk down winning silverware considering we don't win any, but it's only the carling cup and it was won by Birmingham last year so it's not really a sign of how great a team is at the moment. The progress under Dalglish should be judged against last seasons league form, you finished 6th on 58 points despite having an awful manager in Hodgson for a good portion of it or so your fans think, it will be interesting to see how much better off you finish with the money spent. Who mentioned great? If it's 'only' the Carling Cup why do so many teams find it so hard to win? Football is all about winning trophies, it's the goal that every team has at the start of the season. There are only three domestic trophies available, we've won one, that's progress for me, especially as we didn't have an easy run. We've got 13 games to play, let's see how it is at the end of those.

No need, it's one mans word against another, so it's down to who you believe.

I don't feel the need to shoot myself, nor have I disgraced myself, but you're entitled to your opinion.

Who you or I would spend it on is irrelevent if you trust your management team, I trust them even if they do buy a dud every now and then, they all do. I'll have to agree to disagree with you as well, your squad is not as good as ours, imo, and your first 11 had the chance to prove they were better and failed dismally. Your team were terrible at Anfield.

Of course you are, we'll agree to disagree, no problem.

I've seen Liverpool win numerous trophies and I've been proud of every single one of them, even charity shields, regardless of who they're against, or who we were competing with (well it's a bit more special when it's against Everton) I said, imo, we're ahead of you now atm. I have never put you down, why would I? I think your team have done brilliantly this season and if you finish ahead of Liverpool I'd be the first to say well done, it doesn't really matter to me which team we're competing with, nor whether they're a team who've just been promoted or it's their second season of being promoted.

Nothing shocking about it at all, and how is it spin? Net spend is what it is, I don't see you saying you've spent 35 million over the last two seasons, why should I use Liverpool's gross spend.?