CleeToonFan

Didn't employment just go up again? Q2 GDP figures out next week. Wager? Let's put a 10er on it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPPLooLfEXE That's how we all feel right now I think it's more to do with the fact we had no more money to spend and couldn't keep spending what wasn't ours to spend etc etc etc. As government income is a constant hourly flow of cash into the treasury 'having no money' doesnt even make sense. Secondly, the deficit was caused by a significant reduction in tax revenues as the recession hit. People losing jobs, companies going bust, houses being written down, all caused a signficant reduction in tax revenue. We might say 6% as this is by how much the UK economy shrank. The other side of the coin is the rise in government costs paying welfare and social security to the people who just lost their jobs. At the very same moment, because of the recession, the bond markets demand higher yields on government borrowing, adding to the deficit in an instantaneous fashion. Lets say 6% increase. Thats a 12% of GDP deficit from just the impact of the recesion. What was the deficit figure again? 'What wasnt ours to spend'. How cute. Why must you continue to be a wanker with the cute things? I thought we'd covered that long ago? Must you act all holier than thou? It isn't ours to spend because every pound we borrow we pay back eventually with interest! As someone who has more than the immediate future to care about (you know, the time when I can grow up and have wrinkles and saggy testicles and all of a sudden know loads about how the world works?) I know that i'd rather have stagnation in GDP if it will help out eventually, a few years of that with a smaller deficit and we can push on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPPLooLfEXE That's how we all feel right now I think it's more to do with the fact we had no more money to spend and couldn't keep spending what wasn't ours to spend etc etc etc.

When the Cod wars were at their height who was in power? When did the UK join the EU and who was in power? Who was in power for the whole of the 80s? Cod wars ended before 1980! The 80's just followed the trend. I'm actually pro-EU I just don't like the quotas (Iceland isnt in the EU anyway). Labour didn't give any help to the fishermen when they were in power, Conservatives did.

The defecit was caused by falling revenues caused by a recession whose global roots were in the US - yet another one falling for the media propaganda - are you CT's son? Lol, I just said that! It's quite refreshing to see such wisdom in one so young. I long for a return to the days when student wankers used ill-formed left-wing arguments rather than Tory shite but I suppose that's "progress". Don't worry, theres enough left-wingers to make up it. People walking around college with pins of Che Guevara and the likes

Of course not, why would there need to be when we're borrowing that much money that everyone thinks life will be perfect? Let's put too much money into the civil service and then when the shit hits the fan we can blame everyone else, genius! No offence to any civil servants btw, it's not your fault you got such an easy ride. It's like finding a long lost son! He at least puts together a reasoned argument though. Wahay! Anyway, we're all pissing into the wind here. Out of all of this, my main point is that i'd rather GDP grow slower and the deficit to be reduced more than a rapidly rising GDP and also a rapidly rising deficit. http://pragmaticgovernment.blogspot.com/20...-vs-growth.html Just found this online and it pretty much agrees with what I say. Neither party is perfect as it shows, and as an outsider to both parties I think I can appreciate what both of them do, and like I say I have the local bias that Labour fucked up my towns industry, just like you do with the Conservatives fucking up the North Easts industry. Swings and roundabouts. I can trust the Conservatives more with the economy, and thats the reason I got into this long-winded debate that changed nobodys minds and just caused everyone to be pissed off at each other How did Labour fuck up your town out of interest? Grimsby is the fishing industry. Quotas, no support for the trawlermen during the Cod Wars led to most people being forced out the industries during the 70's (and as a result) the 80's too. Then they wouldn't give compensation to the fisherman brought out of jobs. Let's just say, by the time I was born, the docks were dead. Some of my family were in the fishing industry and despite being working class they wouldn't even dare vote Labour

Of course not, why would there need to be when we're borrowing that much money that everyone thinks life will be perfect? Let's put too much money into the civil service and then when the shit hits the fan we can blame everyone else, genius! No offence to any civil servants btw, it's not your fault you got such an easy ride. It's like finding a long lost son! He at least puts together a reasoned argument though. Wahay! Anyway, we're all pissing into the wind here. Out of all of this, my main point is that i'd rather GDP grow slower and the deficit to be reduced more than a rapidly rising GDP and also a rapidly rising deficit. http://pragmaticgovernment.blogspot.com/20...-vs-growth.html Just found this online and it pretty much agrees with what I say. Neither party is perfect as it shows, and as an outsider to both parties I think I can appreciate what both of them do, and like I say I have the local bias that Labour fucked up my towns industry, just like you do with the Conservatives fucking up the North Easts industry. Swings and roundabouts. I can trust the Conservatives more with the economy, and thats the reason I got into this long-winded debate that changed nobodys minds and just caused everyone to be pissed off at each other

It had infinitely more to do with it than any number of people on benefits which by the way was tiny compared with the recent Tory past. When have I denied that! I just said that that sort of thing didn't help! I'm also not a Conservative I might add once more so I don't care if they were for it, I was against it. I hate partisan people who think "Labour did it and I like Labour, it must be right" or "Disagree with everything Labour say because i'm a Conservative". If I agree with something I will agree with it regardless of who did it, hence i'm a fan of a small welfare state just not one that's become out of hand. I genuinely believe that even small growth is good as long as we're getting rid of the deficit, which is of crucial importance.

They are completly relying on a depressed private sector stimulating growth - if it doesn't thay are proud there's no plan b. Hasn't manufactoring/building gone up loads since the new government? Also, that's not entirely true, the government have some decent schemes, around our end they're completely rejuvenating the port and creating jobs for the lower classes there. I dunno about where you are but our entire town is picking itself up. I'm not even a Conservative either by the way, i'm just happy with the way they're dealing with things. You need to look beyond your town - I don't live in the NE anymore bu that doesn't stop me from knowing or caring about what goes on there and in the rest of the country. As it happens the Tories are nicely supporting my "Industry" as they are their paymasters but that doesn't mean I can't see how the rest will suffer. I am! I was just using it as an example, I won't even be living here come September anyway. As for figures, i'll have to check up on google, it was from what i'd read earlier in the year on bbc.com.

Manageable and completely supported penny for penny by the opposition. How come all the other countries were affected without nasty Labour governments? America hadn't had a year in the black since George Bush came to power (mostly due to the wars i'd presume). Most of Europe did have Labour governments (Greece once again as an easy example) and most of Europe has more socialist policies than the UK, retiring earlier etc. I might add that of course the banking collapse was an awful factor, i'm not denying that you can't just say it's all down to that.

They are completly relying on a depressed private sector stimulating growth - if it doesn't thay are proud there's no plan b. Hasn't manufactoring/building gone up loads since the new government? Also, that's not entirely true, the government have some decent schemes, around our end they're completely rejuvenating the port and creating jobs for the lower classes there. I dunno about where you are but our entire town is picking itself up. I'm not even a Conservative either by the way, i'm just happy with the way they're dealing with things.

As you get older, you'll realise this more & more. Haha yeah. Just like the opposite of sports/appearances I guess. Not that i'm athletic/aesthetic. And to be honest alex, I genuinely believe the current government is going at the situation rightly (this coming from a student). The IMF have praised our way of sorting ourselves out, and we avoid the problems of most of Europe, the Greeks being primary examples of people that have spent too much. The IMF don't care about the people whose lives are wrecked in the process though. The situation in Greece is nothing like the situation in the UK either. Of course it's not, but it's still good to judge on. The nations slowly growing, and we're getting out of our mess bit by bit. Rome wasn't built in a day. Have the cuts in Greece helped stimulate growth there? Are they doing the same here or are they preventing growth? With Greece it's too early days to judge. With us stimulating growth and slightly reducing that fucking huge deficit Labour decided would be a good idea. "Let's get all those tramps and wankers and give them more money than minimum wage on the dole, then they can have more kids and cans, brilliant idea!" That benefit culture started under the Tories. Labour didn't improve matters but I suppose it's hard to make people work. I'd be very surprised if the current government can reverse the trend Thatcher started. That has virtually nothing to do with the question I posed though. I thought I answered that question? It stimulates growth and picks at the deficit.

The defecit was caused by falling revenues caused by a recession whose global roots were in the US - yet another one falling for the media propaganda - are you CT's son? The deficit was there before the recession. You think we just lost trillions all of a sudden? The recession just showed how bad it could become. I know that it was easier to go on the dole than get a minimum wage job under labour, and I know that it paid more. That's not media propaganda, neither is the fact that Labour governments generally cause deficits. Most of the media has been pro-Labour for most of my life, I don't read red-tops so I wouldn't know what they're like.

As you get older, you'll realise this more & more. Haha yeah. Just like the opposite of sports/appearances I guess. Not that i'm athletic/aesthetic. And to be honest alex, I genuinely believe the current government is going at the situation rightly (this coming from a student). The IMF have praised our way of sorting ourselves out, and we avoid the problems of most of Europe, the Greeks being primary examples of people that have spent too much. The IMF don't care about the people whose lives are wrecked in the process though. The situation in Greece is nothing like the situation in the UK either. Of course it's not, but it's still good to judge on. The nations slowly growing, and we're getting out of our mess bit by bit. Rome wasn't built in a day. Have the cuts in Greece helped stimulate growth there? Are they doing the same here or are they preventing growth? With Greece it's too early days to judge. With us stimulating growth and slightly reducing that fucking huge deficit Labour decided would be a good idea. "Let's get all those tramps and wankers and give them more money than minimum wage on the dole, then they can have more kids and cans, brilliant idea!"

As you get older, you'll realise this more & more. Haha yeah. Just like the opposite of sports/appearances I guess. Not that i'm athletic/aesthetic. And to be honest alex, I genuinely believe the current government is going at the situation rightly (this coming from a student). The IMF have praised our way of sorting ourselves out, and we avoid the problems of most of Europe, the Greeks being primary examples of people that have spent too much. The IMF don't care about the people whose lives are wrecked in the process though. The situation in Greece is nothing like the situation in the UK either. Of course it's not, but it's still good to judge on. The nations slowly growing, and we're getting out of our mess bit by bit. Rome wasn't built in a day.

As you get older, you'll realise this more & more. Haha yeah. Just like the opposite of sports/appearances I guess. Not that i'm athletic/aesthetic. And to be honest alex, I genuinely believe the current government is going at the situation rightly (this coming from a student). The IMF have praised our way of sorting ourselves out, and we avoid the problems of most of Europe, the Greeks being primary examples of people that have spent too much.

You get two fishing, rods, 4 cans of lager and some chicken and then just walk about as far as I can tell. Fun though and the women always moan. Thank you, oh wise one. Hopefully one day I can do this, and be just like you old people. Then I may be respected by the world because age is the only factor in whether your views on anything is valid.

Of course not, why would there need to be when we're borrowing that much money that everyone thinks life will be perfect? Let's put too much money into the civil service and then when the shit hits the fan we can blame everyone else, genius! No offence to any civil servants btw, it's not your fault you got such an easy ride. The Civil Service did not cause the banking crisis so you can see why they're pissed off at having to pay for it. You're right. However, they still get too many benefits and perks as it is (i'm not saying they should have changed it for those who already signed up to those deals).

What is this sex you talk of?

Of course not, why would there need to be when we're borrowing that much money that everyone thinks life will be perfect? Let's put too much money into the civil service and then when the shit hits the fan we can blame everyone else, genius! No offence to any civil servants btw, it's not your fault you got such an easy ride.

Yes but the rulers and the artistic classes forget it made the country rich and allowed the fuckers to live the way they did/do, The rulers lived much the same before, it just made them even richer. After all, Capitalists made the factories/industries and they were mostly ruling class. After socialism fucked up our country and someone couldn't breathe in the wrong direction without a strike being called I think they just went "Fuck it, what's the point?" And no I don't think it necessarily helped workers because America's industries are stronger (albeit only slightly) than ours and their GDP per capita pisses all over ours. The state of education today. Unionism does not = socialism. If socialism is so bad, how come China is driving the global economy? You've brought age into it AGAIN, after I downed your argument earlier, irrelevent of age? Fuck it, let's all act like we should do because of our age. LOL I GESS DAT CHYNA IS DRIVIN IT BECAUS OF DA CHEEP LABOR ND DA FACT DAT DEY PEGG DER CURRENCEH DOWN TO ATRACT FOREIN BUSINESS INNIT BLAD. China is not true socialism, workers rights are worse there than most places on earth.

Yes but the rulers and the artistic classes forget it made the country rich and allowed the fuckers to live the way they did/do, The rulers lived much the same before, it just made them even richer. After all, Capitalists made the factories/industries and they were mostly ruling class. After socialism fucked up our country and someone couldn't breathe in the wrong direction without a strike being called I think they just went "Fuck it, what's the point?" And no I don't think it necessarily helped workers because America's industries are stronger (albeit only slightly) than ours and their GDP per capita pisses all over ours. Fuck me you're ignorant - more strike days were lost under Thatcher than under Wilson and if you think we all now benefit from a union-less world you don't give a fuck about the working class. The US GDP might be larger but the country is much more divided rich versus poor - I suppose that's because they'd never had socialism fucking it up with mad ideas like the NHS. No, but it goes both ways. Before Thatcher people striked over EVERYTHING. The unions take the piss out of the power they have. The unions are just as corrupt as political parties. The right to strikes all right and good, but if people overdo it and strike over everything the point of it goes away. Yes you're right, although the Liberal Party started most of our socialist policies, not the Labour tramps. NHS is indeed an impressive policy, and the only good Labour has ever done to our country. I don't "not give a fuck about the working class" the same way I don't "not give a fuck about the upper classes". They're all people, stop dividing everyone, nowadays most people can rise up (or down), and your class isn't about what you earn but where you come from. Bullshit.

Yes but the rulers and the artistic classes forget it made the country rich and allowed the fuckers to live the way they did/do, The rulers lived much the same before, it just made them even richer. After all, Capitalists made the factories/industries and they were mostly ruling class. After socialism fucked up our country and someone couldn't breathe in the wrong direction without a strike being called I think they just went "Fuck it, what's the point?" And no I don't think it necessarily helped workers because America's industries are stronger (albeit only slightly) than ours and their GDP per capita pisses all over ours.

I thought in Vietnam they made them drink shit loads and fluids and then tied their penises up so their couldn't piss? If not that's one hell of a story to make up.

Thanks for that - best laugh for a while. You should watch Evan Davies's Made in Britain. Episode 2 was on last night, it describes where in the production process you generate the most value added. Its not in manufacturing. The example he uses is a $300 iPod and how that money is distributed. Its designed and innovated by Apple and made in China. Once all the parts suppliers have been paid, Apple gets $80 for its invention and the Chinese manufacturer gets $5. Do you invest $billions into manufacturing plants or into research and innovation? The UK was correct to move away from manufacturing but is not now well balanced, so there is a problem but its not fundamental, its more a question of needing a better mix. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b012brrc I remember being on holiday in the late 80s and getting talking to some Brummies who were lauding Thatcher for destroying the heavy industries in the NE beacuse they were the past and insisting that the West Midlands would be okay as their industry was "higher tech". After that I remember nastily relishing when the next recession did hit that area. I think its the selling of the nations soul wholesale to the services/financial sector started by Thatcher and continued by Blair/Brown that was the mistake. I also remember a programme years ago which even used Jersualem's line about "dark satanic mills" to suggest that the ruling classes have always looked down on industry and by extension science and innovation as ignoble pursuits. The glorification of greed is good capitalism has only made that attitude worse despite the crunch. William Blake's hardly ruling class! He was a Romantic poet and thus hated the industrial revolution for ruining our "green and pleasant land."