Rayvin

Oh god. Pro-Thatcher. Tbh i thought some of this was just a wind up but no one would joke about being pro-Thatcher.

A tad harsh I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Which is why I am happy to pay taxes and support a social security network that includes healthcare

Devil's Advocate - he might genuinely think that all men are born equal and that the social status, wealth, location, upbringing etc of each individuals' parents count for nothing.

Anarcho-capitalism. Fascinating

I agree with this for me personally, as a middle class, well educated individual. But then I also see and work with many working class people who work solidly at their jobs, every bit as hard (or moreso) than me, and I know for a fact that they will never get as far in life as I could. There are class barriers to equality of opportunity, and we should all aim to change that. It's the only fair solution. Why should feckless rich kids get an easy ride through life? Why shouldn't they have to be responsible for themselves?

I lived in China for a year and they seemed to get along just fine tbh. Democracy is grand farce in my view anyway since so many people don't understand what they're voting for, but I thought that before the referendum and have little interest in it generally. More interested in what is actually best for people. That said, I don't want to overturn the referendum result - I just want the government to come and tell people that they've been lying to them about what the benefits are and be honest about the reality. You know, as you might expect in an actual democracy.

Out of interest, what in your view, is the appropriate response Remainers should be taking to a political action that has made the country unrecognisable for many of us, and which we fear will damage the standard of living for our children? Pointless argument. This is an adult conversation and no one is throwing punches. We're entitled to think the people who voted out were ill-informed and no one on here doesn't understand the reasons for the vote or what people were thinking - we went through this in tremendous detail at the time. But take immigration as one point - say 25% of the people who voted out did so to curb immigration - I think it's over 30% actually but let's keep it conservative since it doesn't matter. We have David Davis here claiming that immigration could fall to almost zero in the weeks before the referendum: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/26/immigration-could-fall-to-almost-zero-if-uk-leaves-eu-says-david-davis And then we have Amber Rudd saying that it won't actually change, months afterwards: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/26/immigration-will-not-dramatically-fall-after-brexit-says-amber-rudd So, the people who voted to curb immigration clearly aren't getting what they want, and immigration will continue as normal. Those people's reasons for voting out are now moot. 25-30% of the overall Brexit vote is enough to lose the referendum on. That's just one issue. The fact is, you can take every single 'reason' for voting out, demonstrate the fallacy of the argument, and take it apart - with the sole exception of sovereignty. And even then it's not going to be anywhere near the level of autonomy that people seemed to think they would get.

Given that it was a lie, what is to stop anyone protesting it. Even the arch-capitalists are calling it a lie: http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018/03/06/john-redwood-admits-it-there-never-was-a-reason-for-austerity/

That is brilliant

Tbf it's not, I just remember a lot of waffle about it being over from May throughout the past two years: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-austerity-brexit-plans-uk-leave-eu-hard-soft-latest-tax-cuts-welfare-benefit-a7787001.html There's been a clear sea change from the Tories on it in terms of narrative since Brexit (and the election).

I think lessons have been learned along the lines of "The older generations have utterly fucked us because we didn't care, and we cannot let that happen again"

So you think that the Tories ditching it as soon as the referendum results were confirmed doesn't suggest that they know it was linked? Curious.

I doubt that mistake would be made a second time.

Possibly, but then the Tories are yet to do anything to actually make anyone's lives better - so even though austerity has technically been abandoned, I don't know if many people even notice. The damage it did isn't being reversed. I think if you had a Labour government actually helping people, no way Brexit happens at a repeat vote.

Aye but they wouldn't be enough to win it. Well, saying that, maybe combined with people who now realise they voted the wrong way but have too much pride to change their view, perhaps anything is possible.

Referendum result was a lashing out response to the lie of austerity. Or at least there was enough of that mixed up in it to make the difference. Since the Tories have now admitted austerity was ideologically driven bullshit which has been unceremoniously abandoned in an act of pure fear at the outcome of Brexit, I think it's fair to say that 'the majority' you refer to no longer exists in terms of why the damn thing happened.

You'll get a lot of support for that opinion on here. Although personally I would say that Momentum almost single handedly brought the Tories to their knees last time out, and that if they had someone more competent at the helm they would have a far easier job of things. They function as a media bypass, taking political messages unedited directly to the electorate. If the enthusiasm remains, they should win out in the end. Remember that Labour won the vote share for everyone under 45. Momentum did its job - it was out on the streets in force. And remember it was on the defensive last time out. Had they attacked, we would almost certainly have seen the back of Rudd, if not many others. https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/jeremy-corbyns-takeover-is-complete-and-the-tories-are-terrified/ Momentum, a group that did not exist four years ago, has instead succeeded in taking over a party: the leadership and the membership. The NEC changes mean Momentum’s reverse takeover of the Labour party is now complete, and Labour MPs are now its hostages. MPs who complain about hard-left takeover will be told that this is not ‘entryism’ but simple democracy — which it is. Momentum found and inspired thousands to join the Labour party and call the shots. It deserves its victory.

I can never quite decide if I hate Gove or Johnson more. It speaks volumes about those two that Hunt isn't even in that equation tbh. May I can't hate anymore. She's too pathetic.

What ideology is it that you think Renton has?

That is a pathetic overreaction from Sunderland

Gove has just claimed that Brexit has made the UK the most immigration friendly country in the EU

Kudos.

Ahhhh. Ok i got you. Pro-Sargon? I thought the nazi pug affair was insane but that isnt much of a statement.