Rayvin

As ever, if you added up all the left/centre left parties (I'll graciously add the LDs to that), we're ahead. Never thought I'd say it but maybe we really do need UKIP back.

Greens ahead of the LDs. That's starting to feel consistent. And I mean yes, it's fairly clear that Starmer isn't pulling up any trees here. Hopefully he's a good campaigner when the time comes but I suspect stuff like this is just going to throw him evermore into the arms of the 'red wall' voters.

And yet very "Britain, 2021"

Tories are considering putting up taxes, Labour are urging them not to. What kind of batshit parallel universe have we stumbled into?

It'll be a stage managed death by a thousand cuts, man. People won't notice because it'll be slow as fuck and leave voters will be doing their utmost to find the positives. We need to stop ceding ground to these people.

Aye and he took the same approach that we now apparently laud Starmer for. Pragmatic compromise. And for all Corbyn's "pragmatism" was a confusing, unstructured and poorly thought through mess, Starmer's is a clear and wholesale concession - and while yes, the ship has sailed, he's treating it like it's out at sea and approaching its destination, rather than having left the port and immediately started taking on water, which is the reality. Apart from his Brexit stance, which I consider short sighted and actually fairly desperate, I don't blame him for anything particularly. He doe

Corbyn at least tried to argue for a version of Brexit that wouldn't be a total fiasco - Starmer on the other hand has waved through the current deal without expressing any concern whatsoever. As shit as Corbyn was on Brexit, Starmer has outdone him. I'm really struggling to see Starmer as the next PM. He's no more electable than Corbyn was based on the evidence we're seeing at the moment. He's barely even fucking visible. EDIT - he's currently running third as 'best man for the PM job' with Yougov, behind Johnson in first and 'I don't know' in second. I sup

Grimes was a Lib Dem originally if I recall correctly? Then he jumped ship when he saw profit in the opportunity to spread false right wing talking points. He's reaping what he sowed on that front so it's tough to feel sorry for him. He's not some hapless, ignorant commentator who is the product of a right wing upbringing and a general lack of political education - he's someone who should know better, who indeed does know better, and who chooses profit from ignoring those things.

A lot of it is completely irrational, that's the problem. They're trying to stick the knife in because that's what they perceive happened to Corbyn. Many of the arguments they're throwing at Starmer qualify as fake news IMO. There's actually now a reasonable body of work that you can fairly criticise Starmer on, but the stuff they're going for is basically conspiracy theory twaddle.

I'm sorry like but "billion pound potential" from an energy drink? Maybe with his data arm, if that's set up under the same name, but I'm not exactly clear on what kind of data an energy drink manufacturer is able to get access to about their consumers that would be worth billions. He'll have paid the guy to come in and give him a PR story and almost certainly will have framed the 'billion pound potential' question along the lines of "We currently sell 10 sports drinks a year for £1 each. We plan to sell a billion + a year - do you agree that this would make us a £bill

It's hard to say I guess - they do still think of themselves as temporary residents in League 1, just beset each year by incompetence. But increasingly they're losing the players and status that such an argument relies on. I actually think the worst outcome for them in the short term would be promotion tbh - they'd soon realise just how far they've fallen.

What was he good at as a player? I can't really remember.

The other perplexing thing about this is what they think would happen if they did get the media attention they want? Somehow that would force the club into spending money or hiring a new manager or whatever it is they think the problem is? All it would do is remind people that they're a joke. The media are doing them a favour.

I mean they had a Netflix series documenting the whole fucking thing tbf.

1. Brexit 2. Happier Fish 3. ??? 4. Profit

I just mean it's a really pointless and divisive argument from their point of view that does neither side any favours whatsoever. I think Meenz is right about why it happens.

Damn, that's a weird one indeed.

As scary as that decision making process is, was he right?

I mean, she knew it was possible but gambled that it wouldn't happen before the vaccine came along. Now she's saying whatever seems vaguely plausible to avoid accountability for that decision. I guess you could call that incompetence, but I feel like cynical calculating and weighing human life against expenditure and effort would more exhaustively sum it up. As far as her bosses (and their objectives) are concerned, she's very competent, I'm sure.

I don't think they are morons really, I think the best way to refer to them now is 'differently informed'. They're now very politically aware compared to a few years ago, and therefore much less likely to pay attention to platitudes. And those who aren't informed probably couldn't even pick Starmer out of a line-up.

Maybe. And maybe it's standing in front of a flag. I doubt it though.

Abandoning the EU for one thing, but we all know my position on that and I'm aware of your views too. But he's going to have to offer them things for this to work - and I'd go so far as to say that they will have to be things of actual substance. This is what concerns me. I mean I guess there's a reality here where apart from betraying remainers, he does nothing else whatsoever to appease social conservatives - in which case fine, but the whole strategy is doomed to fail, making his displays rather pointless. Do you think these working class leave voters are going to vo

Farage can do exactly what Starmer's trying and failing to do, would probably jump at it, and it would free Starmer up to actually stick to his guns on Labour values while granting Farage compromise concessions here and there which everyone would understand would be to bring about a system that isn't as fucking useless as FPTP. Everyone feels represented by their party and we all get the outcome we want. 4 million people voted for Farage's party before Brexit, he'd be a useful asset and he'd love the attention. It'd be sickening but this whole thing is sickening to me a

Agreed in terms of the facts, but not in terms of the narrative - and the narrative is now miles away from what reality is. We have consistently failed, under Brown, Miliband, Corbyn and very likely now Starmer, to be heard on economics. And the Tories are now outflanking us on it anyway. So I do get it, why Starmer is changing tack - but then economics can't and won't become the winning part of this argument. Starmer would in effect be asking people like us to ignore all of the bullshit he will bring about to appease the socially conservative voters, while at the same time asking us to vote t

But that's it though, the economic angle isn't working - if it was, we wouldn't have had Brexit, Corbyn might have won, and Starmer wouldn't now be doing what he is. The whole paradigm of how to appeal to these voters has shifted, and again, he's going to have to unite internationalist, educated remainers with patriotic over everything, socially conservative leavers. I mean, how is he going to do that? I reckon it continues much like this for the next 3/4 years, we get to the election, there's a low turnout, he gets stuffed, resigns, and Labour accepts that