Rayvin

Yep. No Deal gives the Tories no escape. May's Deal means they'll fudge their way out of this. Also, May's deal means Brexit will happen and I'm prepared to risk No Deal for a shot at Remain.

I'm not disputing that.

The only way to what? I'm not disregarding that other ways are possible, I'm just saying that if I can't have 'remain', I'd rather have 'No Deal' than 'May's Deal'. I'm not sure why this is bothering you so much ewerk It's not like I have the power to make it happen.

Yeah but that still rules in almost every politician, of any stripe, in the country.

Do we want May to be overthrown though? I can't quite see all ends of this. If she is, her deal is dead - I doubt the Tories will elect JRM, but they will elect someone like Javid or Gove. What would they do?

I'm not talking about going left though, we can go back central for all I care after this - but the Tories do need to pay

I have sympathy, as I said - just not enough to outweight my overarching feeling that the Tories need to be made to suffer for this. Which, IMO, will do the country the world of good in the long run anyway.

I'm not convinced Corbyn will survive this either unless he goes in heavily on a people's vote, tbh...

@Christmas Tree , which one would you choose?

Kate Hoey says the deal is a sell out. I mean this just isn't getting through Parliament. No way in hell. So it's No Deal or No Brexit.

Agreed.

They cannot be allowed to do this - I mean they inevitably will, but they need to suffer consequences for this. Something needs to change, surely.

She chose to take it. She continues to choose not to resign and simply admit that remaining is the best option.

I'm monumentally pissed off with her this morning.

Don't you dare feel sorry for her.

I'm just done with the compromise (not that I hold any power in this at all). Looking at it rationally, if No Deal is simply unthinkable, then call the government's bluff. Force them into a position where it's No Deal or Remain. The Tories are then fucked either way. I would argue more fucked under No Deal.

I know.

The Tories will suffer if they're in power when No Deal hits home. I have no faith in Labour to get rid of them by March, and I have every faith that the Tories will somehow cling on as they always seem to do. The only thing that will burn them unless we end up in a second vote, is No Deal coming home to roost.

The preference may be ridiculous but the statement isn't. But like I said, I'm beyond rationality on this now. If the Tories somehow get away with this, I'm fucking done with politics, full stop. I need to see them suffer from this - not just May, but the whole fucking party. Moreover, I'm tempted to say that if so many people are determined that No Deal is the best outcome, let them fucking have it. It's the only way to shut them up for certain anyway. What is ridiculous, is that we are poised to accept a shit deal that basically gives us a far less attractive version of what we already have, pleasing fucking no one, because that's the only way the Tories can save themselves.

Then they can all suffer no deal too for all i care I dont give a shit anymore about whats best for people, i just want this to fucking blow off the limbs of the Tories. And if at any point you did give a shit about what was best for people, you would have joined the rest of us in voting against this massive, meaningless, pointless clusterfuck. I would prefer no deal to May's plan. I cannot give a shit anymore. Im so sick and tired of the lies and utter stupidity involved in this. The only people who i have any sympathy with are the working class Remainers, but honestly I'll pay that price gladly to watch the Tories tear themselves apart.

They won't. I guarantee it. When has pressure on Corbyn ever made the blindest bit of difference to him?

No, i dont think he could. But as we can now see that public opinion has turned in favour of Remain anyway, i dont think its remotely important that he cant. Moreover, why in fuck would he bail the Tories out here? This government has created this mess of its own accord, and deserves to die at the hands of the monster it made.

He's basically got to call for something. Either way, it's a step in the right direction. Honestly can't believe CT thought Labour would back this shambles

Totally inevitable that they would do this. And not in the least bit morally corrupt. The Tories wanted to play games with the nation's future, this is what they get

That's the Tories for you.