If a nuclear bomb..........

[Guest stevieintoon]

When I was at school (many years ago) my physics teacher was some sort of area advisor and he told us that at that time (about 1980) it was assumed the Russians' targets were : one on the Tyne bridge, one mouth of the Tyne, one Blyth power station and one on Sunderland town centre (the regional bunker is under their civic centre) so I'd say you were well fucked anywhere with people around.

 

 

I understand that the targets were Boulmer (Radar Station), Newcastle Airport, the A Power Station at Hartlepool, Catterick (where the RSG was), and the two main urban conurbations on Tyneside and Teeside

 

 

So presumebly - one missile would deliver 6 warheads to its targets.

 

Christ - the north east would be completely ruined.

Is it not just the yanks that have that multiple warhead technology? The way it works is one huge bomb flies off in to space, but splinters in to 6-10 little bombs, and they developed this to evade defence bomb mechanisms.

[Guest alex]

Anyone remember 'When the Wind Blows' by Raymond Briggs?

[Renton 18016]

Anyone remember 'When the Wind Blows' by Raymond Briggs?

 

I've still got it. Half of me thought the senile sods deserved it for being so immensely stupid.

[Lazarus 0]

When I was at school (many years ago) my physics teacher was some sort of area advisor and he told us that at that time (about 1980) it was assumed the Russians' targets were : one on the Tyne bridge, one mouth of the Tyne, one Blyth power station and one on Sunderland town centre (the regional bunker is under their civic centre) so I'd say you were well fucked anywhere with people around.

 

 

I understand that the targets were Boulmer (Radar Station), Newcastle Airport, the A Power Station at Hartlepool, Catterick (where the RSG was), and the two main urban conurbations on Tyneside and Teeside

 

 

So presumebly - one missile would deliver 6 warheads to its targets.

 

Christ - the north east would be completely ruined.

Is it not just the yanks that have that multiple warhead technology? The way it works is one huge bomb flies off in to space, but splinters in to 6-10 little bombs, and they developed this to evade defence bomb mechanisms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulava_%28missile%29

[Guest stevieintoon]

I didn't even know about the possibility of an EMP attack. Apparently it's a decent sized nuke detonated 40 -400 miles above the earth's surface, which would cripple the whole of America's (or Western Europe) electronic circuitry in one go. How would they survive. It would take decades to get everything back together. No one would die initially, but the long term inplications are probably as bad as an all out nuclear attack.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

[Renton 18016]

I didn't even know about the possibility of an EMP attack. Apparently it's a decent sized nuke detonated 40 -400 miles above the earth's surface, which would cripple the whole of America's (or Western Europe) electronic circuitry in one go. How would they survive. It would take decades to get everything back together. No one would die initially, but the long term inplications are probably as bad as an all out nuclear attack.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

 

The first missile launchedin threads was a massive EMP attack over the North Sea.

 

It's funny how Bush and his cronies act like we have never been in greater danger today when in the 60s, 70s, and 80s we had all this crap hanging over our heads.

[Guest stevieintoon]

I didn't even know about the possibility of an EMP attack. Apparently it's a decent sized nuke detonated 40 -400 miles above the earth's surface, which would cripple the whole of America's (or Western Europe) electronic circuitry in one go. How would they survive. It would take decades to get everything back together. No one would die initially, but the long term inplications are probably as bad as an all out nuclear attack.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

 

The first missile launchedin threads was a massive EMP attack over the North Sea.

 

It's funny how Bush and his cronies act like we have never been in greater danger today when in the 60s, 70s, and 80s we had all this crap hanging over our heads.

What about this......

 

 

Sirens blaring, warning lights flashing, computer screens showing nuclear missiles on their way, one man in charge of a red button labeled “START” - that’s start a retaliatory strike — and a roomful of people at their terminals and switchboards waiting for him to push it. Sound like a typical Hollywood Cold War cliffhanger?

 

It was indeed just like in the movies, says the man who was poised over the red button over twenty years ago, except “in the movies, Hollywood specialists and directors can stretch a little situation into half an hour. In our case, from the time I made the decision to when it was all over, it was five minutes max.”

 

Stanislav Petrov was a Soviet army officer monitoring the satellite system for signs of a U.S. attack, the year was 1983, and his instructions, if he detected missiles targeting the Soviet Union, were to push the button and launch a counter-offensive.

 

He didn’t. Minutes later, no missiles came; months later, the frightening data across his monitor was determined to have been a system glitch. Today, the Association of World Citizens is calling him “the forgotten hero of our time,” a title befitting the man whose responsibility had been to start World War III.

 

On the Spot

 

Half an hour past midnight on September 26, 1983, he saw the first apparent launch on his computer monitor in a glass-walled room on the top floor of the Ballistic Missile Early Warning System (BMEWS) command and control post.

 

“I was supposed to supervise the combat crew. When the first launch happened, everyone was stupefied. After the first launch, I started giving orders, because in the room below, where there were five switchboards, and all the operators jumped out of their seats to see what my reaction was. I can only imagine what went on at the other posts.”

 

The warning system was by now showing five missile launches in the U.S., headed toward the Soviet Union. The “START” command Petrov was expected to give would have started an irreversible chain reaction in a system geared to launch a counter-strike without human interference.

 

“The main computer wouldn’t ask me [what to do] — it was made so that it wouldn’t even ask. It was specially constructed in such a way that no one could affect the system’s operations.” All that was up to Petrov was analyzing the available information and either saying the alarm was false or giving the computer the go-ahead, as per the directive he himself wrote.

 

Why Didn’t He Do It?

 

All the data checked out, to all appearances, the system was right on target — or rather, the missiles it reported were. A couple of thoughts flashed past Petrov’s mind.

 

“I just couldn’t believe that just like that, all of a sudden, someone would hurl five missiles at us. Five missiles wouldn’t wipe us out. The U.S. had not five, but a thousand missiles in battle readiness.” It just didn’t seem like any scenario considered by military intelligence before.

 

The second thought on Petrov’s mind every time he was on duty was this:

 

“I imagined if I’d assume the responsibility for unleashing the third World War — and I said, no, I wouldn’t.”

 

The tension must have been overwhelming — did he really have the time to consider the global context of his actions?

 

“I always thought of it. Whenever I came on duty, I always refreshed it in my memory. At that moment, there was no time to think, I had to work, work, work.”

 

Petrov reported the alarm to his superiors and declared it false. Had he been mistaken, the mistake would have become obvious in minutes: the post’s detection system had a 15-minute advantage over the ground radars. No missiles rained on Soviet Union in a quarter hour; rather, in an hour, high command descended on the command post.

 

What Happened?

 

“It was a false alarm started aboard a satellite,” says retired General Yuri Votintsev, then the Commander of the Soviet Missile and Space Establishment. Votintsev raced to the command post and was the first to hear Petrov’s story after the incident.

 

“I noted Lieutenant Colonel Petrov’s correct actions, given the situation. Literally within a minute he informed all the command posts that the information about the launch of space vehicles is false. His actions were duly noted.”

 

Petrov himself tells a different story — although at first he was praised for his actions, he found himself slighted and picked on after the warning system was meticulously dissected and many bugs were found.

 

“When a lot of garbage was found in the way the system worked, it was uncomfortable for them to praise me — like they’re all horrible and I’m the only one who’s any good.”

 

Twenty-One Years Later

 

Several months later, Petrov retired from the army, exhausted by the stress. Twenty-one years later, Petrov, surviving on a tiny army pension in a small town outside of Moscow, is being honored for his decision by the San Francisco-based Association of World Citizens. On May 21, 2004 Colonel Petrov has joined the ranks of World Citizens and receive a financial award AWC raised for him through its website.

 

The director of Memorial, Russia’s historical heritage and human rights organization, Arseny Roginsky, congratulated Petrov on behalf of AWC in an awards ceremony that took place at Moscow News’ office. The only regret AWC had, he said, was that they hadn’t acknowledged Petrov’s heroic action years ago. “They believe, you see, that in this world, people who are capable of actions like that can be counted up on one hand.”

 

That's like a real life version of that film Wargames.

 

The radge thing is this bloke saved the world, and was treat like an outcast by Soviet generals.....

 

canny read....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

[Scottish Mag 3]

Well I would be one of the first to go, living right next to Faslane Naval Base..

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

When I was at school (many years ago) my physics teacher was some sort of area advisor and he told us that at that time (about 1980) it was assumed the Russians' targets were : one on the Tyne bridge, one mouth of the Tyne, one Blyth power station and one on Sunderland town centre (the regional bunker is under their civic centre) so I'd say you were well fucked anywhere with people around.

 

 

I understand that the targets were Boulmer (Radar Station), Newcastle Airport, the A Power Station at Hartlepool, Catterick (where the RSG was), and the two main urban conurbations on Tyneside and Teeside

 

 

So presumebly - one missile would deliver 6 warheads to its targets.

 

Christ - the north east would be completely ruined.

Is it not just the yanks that have that multiple warhead technology? The way it works is one huge bomb flies off in to space, but splinters in to 6-10 little bombs, and they developed this to evade defence bomb mechanisms.

 

 

The multiple warhead was used by both Russia, America and the UK. There is no effective missile defence, it's introduction was because with it, one silo/sub launched missile could destroy multiple targets with more total damage as pound for pound multiple smaller nuclear warheads are more effective than one large one. The 9Mt bomb, whilst not a first strike weapon for any future nuclear war, was ICBM mounted for first strike use during the eighties, and would kill you on the mini golf course at Whitley Bay if targetting Greys Monument

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

I didn't even know about the possibility of an EMP attack. Apparently it's a decent sized nuke detonated 40 -400 miles above the earth's surface, which would cripple the whole of America's (or Western Europe) electronic circuitry in one go. How would they survive. It would take decades to get everything back together. No one would die initially, but the long term inplications are probably as bad as an all out nuclear attack.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

 

The first missile launchedin threads was a massive EMP attack over the North Sea.

 

It's funny how Bush and his cronies act like we have never been in greater danger today when in the 60s, 70s, and 80s we had all this crap hanging over our heads.

What about this......

 

 

 

canny read....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

 

 

There were loads more close calls than just that, usually involving early warning system malfunctions. There was an interesting philosophical debate as to whether any human would ultimately have the balls to push the button, no matter what he was being told

 

Anyway, it all comes down to Denzel Washington's line in Crimson Tide:

 

"in the nuclear world, the true enemy is war itself."

 

The whole point of the existence of nuclear weapons is that nobody ever pushes the button

Edited March 20, 2007 by Super_Steve_Howey

[Lazarus 0]

I didn't even know about the possibility of an EMP attack. Apparently it's a decent sized nuke detonated 40 -400 miles above the earth's surface, which would cripple the whole of America's (or Western Europe) electronic circuitry in one go. How would they survive. It would take decades to get everything back together. No one would die initially, but the long term inplications are probably as bad as an all out nuclear attack.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

 

The first missile launchedin threads was a massive EMP attack over the North Sea.

 

It's funny how Bush and his cronies act like we have never been in greater danger today when in the 60s, 70s, and 80s we had all this crap hanging over our heads.

What about this......

 

 

 

canny read....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

 

 

There were loads more close calls than just that, usually involving early warning system malfunctions. There was an interesting philosophical debate as to whether any human would ultimately have the balls to push the button, no matter what he was being told

 

Anyway, it all comes down to Denzel Washington's line in Crimson Tide:

 

"in the nuclear world, the true enemy is war itself."

 

The whole point of the existence of nuclear weapons is that nobody ever pushes the button

 

So your pro trident then ?

 

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

I didn't even know about the possibility of an EMP attack. Apparently it's a decent sized nuke detonated 40 -400 miles above the earth's surface, which would cripple the whole of America's (or Western Europe) electronic circuitry in one go. How would they survive. It would take decades to get everything back together. No one would die initially, but the long term inplications are probably as bad as an all out nuclear attack.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

 

The first missile launchedin threads was a massive EMP attack over the North Sea.

 

It's funny how Bush and his cronies act like we have never been in greater danger today when in the 60s, 70s, and 80s we had all this crap hanging over our heads.

What about this......

 

 

 

canny read....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

 

 

There were loads more close calls than just that, usually involving early warning system malfunctions. There was an interesting philosophical debate as to whether any human would ultimately have the balls to push the button, no matter what he was being told

 

Anyway, it all comes down to Denzel Washington's line in Crimson Tide:

 

"in the nuclear world, the true enemy is war itself."

 

The whole point of the existence of nuclear weapons is that nobody ever pushes the button

 

So your pro trident then ?

 

 

Idealistically no, but realistically, yes. I just can't get my head round the CND assertion that if we gave up Trident then everyone else would disarm. The shortness of debate over alternative deployment vehicles / strategies was quite alarming though.

 

I was born into a nuclear world, I don't hold out too much hope of dying in a nuclear free world.

[Guest stevieintoon]

I find this EMP thing is as frightening. Iamgine how long we'd be without electricity, year I reckon, people would be fighting over supplies in netto and local corner shops, onlu cunts with guns would survive.

 

Gimps like people on the wrestling thread on NO what would they do without SLAM DOWN ROYAL RUMBLE 9 on the PS3?

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3267]

I was a Nuclear Biological and chemical Recce specialist. It's all shit scary.

[Rob W 0]

What amazes me is this letter that the PM writes personally and seals him/herself and is aboard every Trident sub in the safe

 

if the shit hits the fan and they crew can't contact anyone it gives him recomendations

 

they are thought to basically say

 

1. Contact the Yanks and do what they say

 

2. Fire the lot

 

3. Bugger off to Australia/New Zealand and hand the sub over to them

 

 

When there is a new PM the old letters are returned unopened and shredded............................

[Guest alex]

What amazes me is this letter that the PM writes personally and seals him/herself and is aboard every Trident sub in the safe

 

if the shit hits the fan and they crew can't contact anyone it gives him recomendations

 

they are thought to basically say

 

1. Contact the Yanks and do what they say

 

2. Fire the lot

 

3. Bugger off to Australia/New Zealand and hand the sub over to them

 

 

When there is a new PM the old letters are returned unopened and shredded............................

Is 2 a given following on from 1?

[Rob W 0]

I'd have thought so but I guess it gets the cinder that was the PM off the hook

[Guest stevieintoon]

Rob what are your thoughts on the acute social deprivation problems facing the people Huaraz in Peru?