Big TRon 0 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 It wasn't bad but I thought we were out-classed in the end. City's passing was far classier under pressure, something we could learn from but won't as it's not Allardyce's way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4006 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I think even the most rabid outers (me included) recognise that last night wasn't a "Wigan level" disgrace. The last two games have seen improved performances both in terms of attitude and general play. I think if last nights game had taken place in September people would have had more of a "oh well" kind of attitude, focusing on the positives. The thing is its all part of a whole of a season that apart from maybe 4 or 5 games has been consistently poor. I guess the options now as I see the are: 1) Trust Allardyce to build on the better performances lately and with the addition of a couple of players have an acceptable/reasonable 2nd half of the season witrh the hope of something better next year. 2) Accept that we will be generally shite for the rest of the season to the same degree as so far, just scrape enough points to prevent looking below us and look forward to next season. 3) Recognise that he's the wrong man and get rid now. I'll be honest and say I'm actually torn between 2 and 3. I'll admit 3 is my instinctive choice but I do accept all the arguments about time and revolving doors etc. The problem is of course getting someone in which is why option 2 also appeals in that as long as the season is recognised as unacceptable we can try and get someone better in the summer. My worry is that a reasonable finish will fit into the so call plan of progress and we'll see the same as this season next year (see my previous arguments that Bolton were up and down never gradual). I'm still however plagued by the points and fixtures issue. I honestly only see Bolton and Boro as possible/probable wins until virtually the end of match and thats worrying. I don't want to have to say "but the Mackems/Fulham/Brum are worse than us" the simple fact is that 9 points over 17 games inst that much of a gap when you aren't winning. The harsh reality is that the improved performances of the last two games will probably be nullified by the fixture list which means more desperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally 0 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I love how a lot of the posts in this thread claim that poor wickle Obafemi is just "lacking confidence". Anything to avoid having to admit that he's just not up to the task. There was a post on N-O that said something like Viduka is fucking shit, Milner is fucking shit, Owen is shit etc....but Martins at least gave his all. The amount of bumming he gets is mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 It'll be interesting to see what backing he gets in the transfer market because I honestly don't think we've got the personnel required to even challenge the likes of Portsmouth, etc. Some of the blame for that is down to Allardyce, obviously - £12m on Smith and Barton (quite like Smith but he's awful in midfield where Allardyce has largely played him) could have been better spent imo (hindsight ). In any case, to use a common phrase it's a case of back or sack imo, although I tend to think the new regime will wait until the summer to get rid even if they've already decided Allardyce isn't up o scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I love how a lot of the posts in this thread claim that poor wickle Obafemi is just "lacking confidence". Anything to avoid having to admit that he's just not up to the task. There was a post on N-O that said something like Viduka is fucking shit, Milner is fucking shit, Owen is shit etc....but Martins at least gave his all. The amount of bumming he gets is mental. The daft thing is Viduka put more of a shift in than Martins last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4006 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 This African Nations thing is a pro and a con - I think losing Beye and Faye is a bummer but I hope a break does Geremi and Martins good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big TRon 0 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I think even the most rabid outers (me included) recognise that last night wasn't a "Wigan level" disgrace. The last two games have seen improved performances both in terms of attitude and general play. I think if last nights game had taken place in September people would have had more of a "oh well" kind of attitude, focusing on the positives. The thing is its all part of a whole of a season that apart from maybe 4 or 5 games has been consistently poor. I guess the options now as I see the are: 1) Trust Allardyce to build on the better performances lately and with the addition of a couple of players have an acceptable/reasonable 2nd half of the season witrh the hope of something better next year. 2) Accept that we will be generally shite for the rest of the season to the same degree as so far, just scrape enough points to prevent looking below us and look forward to next season. 3) Recognise that he's the wrong man and get rid now. I'll be honest and say I'm actually torn between 2 and 3. I'll admit 3 is my instinctive choice but I do accept all the arguments about time and revolving doors etc. The problem is of course getting someone in which is why option 2 also appeals in that as long as the season is recognised as unacceptable we can try and get someone better in the summer. My worry is that a reasonable finish will fit into the so call plan of progress and we'll see the same as this season next year (see my previous arguments that Bolton were up and down never gradual). I'm still however plagued by the points and fixtures issue. I honestly only see Bolton and Boro as possible/probable wins until virtually the end of match and thats worrying. I don't want to have to say "but the Mackems/Fulham/Brum are worse than us" the simple fact is that 9 points over 17 games inst that much of a gap when you aren't winning. The harsh reality is that the improved performances of the last two games will probably be nullified by the fixture list which means more desperation. sums it up quite nicely that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevieintoon Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I love how a lot of the posts in this thread claim that poor wickle Obafemi is just "lacking confidence". Anything to avoid having to admit that he's just not up to the task. There was a post on N-O that said something like Viduka is fucking shit, Milner is fucking shit, Owen is shit etc....but Martins at least gave his all. The amount of bumming he gets is mental. The daft thing is Viduka put more of a shift in than Martins last night. Utterly flabbergasted. He is a lazy fat bastard. Did you see that incident last night right near the end where the ball was 5 yards away from him in midfield, was his to be won, and he just thought fuck it?? He's a lazy fat cunt. That ball Martins put across for him in the first half?!?! If Shearer was in a wheelchair, he'd have got closer to it. He just watched a quality ball go astray, he's the laziest cunt I've seen in a toon shirt for a long time, and the sad thing is, we've not had a striker with more skill since Tino was here, he was a lazy cunt too. The second half showed the difference in the two teams. EIGHT of Pearce's squad played some part of the game, and I have to take my hat off to Sven, because they were so well organised once they got the lead, we could've played till May and still not scored. If we got round one someone else was there to put us under pressure, the space was always condensed, and we're genuinely not good enough to break a well organised outfit down, when we're chasing the lead. I said to the bloke next to me "I bet the media report that we've been shouting for Shearer" when it was the City fans singing it. Sure enough I get in and what's that daft cunt Matthew Lorenzo saying on SKY, tossers. First half wasn't bad, but how long can he hide behind this "transitional period" thing? On a separate note Nicky Butt had his worst game for the toon since Cardiff, I think he must've had a cracking NYE judging by that performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 My point was more Martins doesn't graft much and didn't last night tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big TRon 0 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 My point was more Martins doesn't graft much and didn't last night tbh. At least he moves. Looks much better up front, although I agree he's wasteful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevieintoon Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 My point was more Martins doesn't graft much and didn't last night tbh. My point is Martins movement is a like a scouser on wizz compared to the lazy tortoise that is Mark Viduka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 My point was more Martins doesn't graft much and didn't last night tbh. At least he moves. Looks much better up front, although I agree he's wasteful. His movement's shite imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 My point was more Martins doesn't graft much and didn't last night tbh. My point is Martins movement is a like a scouser on wizz compared to the lazy tortoise that is Mark Viduka. Viduka had a far better game than Martins however. I was more on about graft when we weren't in possession. I think (even) Viduka did more of that than Martins. This seems like I'm bashing Martins but it's more of a problem with the myth that 'at least he works his bollocks off when he isn't playing well'. I don't think he does personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevieintoon Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 My point was more Martins doesn't graft much and didn't last night tbh. My point is Martins movement is a like a scouser on wizz compared to the lazy tortoise that is Mark Viduka. Viduka had a far better game than Martins however. I was more on about graft when we weren't in possession. I think (even) Viduka did more of that than Martins. This seems like I'm bashing Martins but it's more of a problem with the myth that 'at least he works his bollocks off when he isn't playing well'. I don't think he does personally. I honestly don't think we were at the same game last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 To be fair, I think both Martins and Viduka are lazy cunts when things aren't going well for them but some reason Martins doesn't get the same amount of stick. I'd rather none of the players got stick for stuff, obviously. At the game, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big TRon 0 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Viduka and Owen will get the chance to show they are a better bet with Martins off to the ANC. Long ball football might work with those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Viduka is wasted if the ball is humped up to him and the opposition can hold a very high line (like Man City did 2nd half) with those two seeing as they aren't pacy enough. We're desperate for a good, fast striker imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big TRon 0 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Viduka is wasted if the ball is humped up to him and the opposition can hold a very high line (like Man City did 2nd half) with those two seeing as they aren't pacy enough. We're desperate for a good, fast striker imo. The problem with that is: 1) There aren't that many good quality fast strikers 2) they cost a bomb which is why we have Martins really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 There's a few clubs paid less and got more compared to what we paid for Martins though. We always seem to get mugged on fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big TRon 0 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 There's a few clubs paid less and got more compared to what we paid for Martins though. We always seem to get mugged on fees. which is why we keep changing managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 0 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Owen could cover half the yards Martins does and get into twice as many good positions. Martins doesn't really know where to position himself as a striker- until he sorts that out his game won't come together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevieintoon Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Owen could cover half the yards Martins does and get into twice as many good positions. Martins doesn't really know where to position himself as a striker- until he sorts that out his game won't come together. Positions himself better than Viduka, who couldn't position himself for a shite, and even if he could he'd probably be too lazy to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke 1 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Just seen in the papers that McClaren was at the game last night. All of a sudden Allardyce doesn't seem so bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Owen could cover half the yards Martins does and get into twice as many good positions. Martins doesn't really know where to position himself as a striker- until he sorts that out his game won't come together. Positions himself better than Viduka, who couldn't position himself for a shite, and even if he could he'd probably be too lazy to do it. He takes up far worse positions than Viduka. Viduka will score you as many goals and contribute more overall too. Not that Viduka, given his age, questionable attitude and injury record, should be any more than a stop-gap. He was on a free though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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