Rayvin

So you think either the Tories or Labour are going to take responsibility for "cancelling" Brexit. Backbenchers maybe, but the two main parties, I don't think so. Not anymore.

I was taking a break from being antisemitic. But now I'm back, so we can once again resume conflation of criticism of the media with antisemitism.

Sounds like the meeting was a waste of time anyway. He should have stayed. The big problem now for Labour (or anyone) is that everyone knows this needs to be stopped, but everyone also knows that whoever does stop it will be punished by the electorate. That's why Labour won't shoot, it's why May won't just blow her brains out. The voters are the problem, because the narrative has never been developed to pull us back from this. It's going to be no deal unless there is some kind of cross party backbench revolt.

I would take Starmer, not that I will ever vote again.

This is literally unbelievable. If anyone I know ever votes Tory again, I'm immediately cutting them out of my life.

I brought this up first and have spent about 3 pages trying to outline the same point over and over until someone would actually grasp it, amidst constant sniping. Par for the course but I just can't be fucked anymore. What you've proposed does sound sensible. Good luck with it.

Yeah ok, you win. I mean I could point out that starting from today proves nothing about what has brought us to this point in the argument but honestly, you may well be right about the whole thing. I need to stay out of this thread.

Every now and then, talking on here reminds me why the centre got such a massive arse kicking across the world in the past 5 years I see the Guardian released a report stating that populist rhetoric is on the rise in political speeches around the world. Great news, that. We're doing so well at combating these issues by just running around calling everyone racists. https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2019/mar/06/revealed-the-rise-and-rise-of-populist-rhetoric

Well you're wrong in your characterization of my priorities I'm afraid. I'm not dismissing that there's a problem with antisemitism - if there is, there is. My issue, and this may be worse from your point of view, is that it isn't as big a deal as a series of other issues that are being sidelined as a result of the attention it's getting. Coupled with the fact that the reason this is such a big issue, is because it has useful side effects. I don't not want to see it, it's just that until someone dies as a result of an antisemitic attack by a member of the Labour party, for me, it's not as big a deal as the 10 kids who have been knifed to death this year so far - I feel that this is an acceptable moral position, and so have to then look at why the media does not appear to share it. That's the full extent of my issue. That's it. I'm sorry if that isn't an acceptable view, but honestly, I'm amazed anyone could disagree.

I nearly caveated this in but I'm sick of having to put up defences for every bad faith counter that gets thrown at me. Yes ewerk, clearly in the case of a genocide and the resultant demographic shift that happens, the situation is different. Theoretically at least. Taken looking only at the past 100 years (say) it becomes irrelevant again apart from a semantic issue.

Can you just answer my question? Given how I perceive it, can you understand my position, as much as you may dismiss away the basis for it. I also think you've taken a lot of what I've said about this as a direct challenge to things you've posted. It's not really. I'm also going to stress that I'm not a member of the Labour party and this isn't some tribal thing for me. Labour are going to crash and burn under Corbyn anyway, as they will under McDonnell. The establishment isn't going to let this happen and that's just how it is. I also think you're being ridiculous in your comparison with knife crime. There must have been about 20 or 30 different headlines in the guardian alone about antisemitism in the past week, and I think I've seen a single one about knife crime. Maybe it's a guardian issue more than anything else truthfully, it would explain why we're so at odds on this.

I think you may have called me it a few times. I did a quick scan back through the Social Justice Warrior thread and one of the occasions was for stating that the anarcho-communists were complicit in creating disturbances with the alt right. I stand by that because it's true: I think the wider context was that you took issue with me drawing similarities between them, although since I was rejecting both I'm not sure why you felt this meant I was aligning myself with one side in particular. But I'm used to it, I get called a Communist and a bleeding heart liberal as often as I get called a Nazi - as evidenced by the terrorism thread and my longstanding views that Islam itself isn't the main driver of terrorism, the issue instead being economic factors leading to alienation and disenfranchisement, and poor Western foreign policy. That wasn't a hugely popular view on here either. I don't agree with white privilege per se, although I do agree that native privilege exists. I mean I lived in China and didn't have 'white privilege' there, unless being charged more for everything counts as a 'privilege'. Within the confines of Western society, I do agree that native privilege = white privilege. I think men and women have different privileges based on their genders. I don't think it's all one way. All this back on the table, I'm ready to resume my status as a Nazi cunt.

I actually think he might look for reasons to stay. But I don't know if i would want him to if Ashley is staying. I mean for one thing he doesn't deserve Ashley's nonsense, and for another thing he would keep us alive at a time when maybe we need to fail so that we can finally get free of the great fat bastard.

Ok. 1 - KCG, you called me a Nazi because I criticised SJWs. I continue to do this so therefore I must remain a Nazi to you. Hope this helps. 2 - Gloom, you don't believe this story gets more coverage than anything else. I'm incredulous at that claim but this is your industry so if that's your position then fine. Looking at it based on perspective though, given that my view is that it does get more coverage than literally every other issue save Brexit, can you see why I have my suspicions about the underlying motive? 3 - an investigation into the issue sounds like a good thing to me, and the outcome of the investigation would indeed be newsworthy. 4 - ewerk, that particular point was previously unknown to me. Fucking clearly that is antisemitic and should have been dealt with. That is what actual evidence looks like, incidentally. Well done.

I think you decided i was a Nazi cunt some time after that tbh. I assume you now consider yourself wrong about that but who knows in this day and age.

You tend to post articles from the MSM, and in general you are uncritical about them. That is all. And for the last time, calling out antisemitism isn't an establishment position per se because i dont actually think the establishment gives a shit about it. I think it is useful for one specific reason which I have already articulated. Like all forms of racism it does indeed need to be shut down. Unlike all other forms of racism, it is only this variant, and only within the Labour party, that the press is continuously interested. I still feel like we're talking past each other here. Did you ever answer my earlier question? Do you think this is the second most important issue facing the country? Because that's the level of coverage it's getting.

I didn't say we didn't have anything in common. I also, technically, didn't say you were establishment. I just insinuated you tended to post establishment views A lot of people get very precious about identity when they get into arguments but I'm not one of them. All I care about is your fucking views

I think I do alright in the arguments on here tbh

Not even going to challenge that one, it's almost certainly true.

I firmly believe Gloom's heart is in the right place, I just think he gets led astray too easily. Same as he thinks about me

You realise I don't have an issue with you posting this stuff right? It's not like I've asked you to stop. Its useful for me to get establishment opinions anyway at the end of the day, it's not like they're always wrong. And i agree about Corbyn. And yeah i figured that might have been the issue, Israel's right to exist. I doubled negatived that sentence so my bad I guess.

I didn't see it but np man.. I do want to be clear that it's really the media I have an issue with, there's nothing else in it for me. And maybe that does blind me to things tbh. The reason I argue with you guys in here isn't to "win", it's to better inform myself.

He must have been gone for a good year now...

It's because Parky exists that my last paragraph was necessary.

As an aside, while these two comments may make you feel good, brimming with righteous indignation, that's not how the legal system in this country can afford to work, is it? I haven't actually watched any of Dankula's videos beyond the nazi pug one because to me, he looks like a random bloke with a webcam, and not someone to whom any serious attention should be paid for political insight. Do many of his videos highlight a longstanding issue with antisemitism? Does it rear its head often? Is it even dog whistled? I suspect if there was evidence of this, it would have been raised loudly at the time. You've gone down a blind alley with this one and your comments are reactionary. This is why I don't get suckered into the press' position on everything - they want this reactionary nonsense from otherwise rational people. It is acceptable to look at things on their own terms, and make your own conclusion. And disagreeing with the press' view after doing that, does not make you antisemitic (in this instance). I'm gonna say, by the way, that I do not think there is a Jewish conspiracy running the world - I don't think there's a conspiracy full stop. I think there is a systemic problem that rewards a certain section of society disproportionately. I do not believe Israel should not exist, and I have sympathy with the fact that they are in effect surrounded by hostile nations, and that this influences their politics considerably. I do not think that Palestinians throwing rockets over the border are blameless when Israel responds. I don't even have an issue with Jewish people complaining about antisemitism in Labour. The only thing I do have an issue with, is the weaponisation of the story into apocalyptic proportions because it has the useful side effect of protecting the rich from Corbyn.