bez

The mind boggles. 49409[/snapback] Assuming the people here had one. Apologies for grammar and typing. Wasnt aware it was it a test. As for 1sr year sociology? Nope 16 letters after name so far. More to come in December. Yourself?

That you dont understand what the term 'culture' means is your problem. Read Bruner. He explains it perfectly. Yes , if it orginates in black culture and you read into it further then it is a facet of contemporary black culture. I'm afraid that whilst we have people who choose to ignore racism and its different nuances and connotations simply because they cant undertand then we have a problem. 49395[/snapback] So where would you draw the line exactly? How many years after a term is coined is it no longer offensive to that culture to use it in an offensive manner? I haven't read Bruner but I shall have a look. I don't feel handicapped by my obvious intellectual inferiority to your good self on this issue, though, thanks for your concern. 49403[/snapback] I have little problem with you. More with the attitude that trivialises it. There are plenty of examples. This issue was one i raised as a reminder of KROF day. Bairns like sima and Alex arent bright or mature enough. You might be. Bruner would help you get the picture though. I can post you a copy if you wish. Racism is one strike and out. There are plenty of example in N-Os history where that hasnt been the case and some very odd examples of people on here going well overboard and probably saying something just a shade away from criminal. I am absolutely certain (as are my colleagues) that in 3 years time Albert Kirkleys comments will be criminal in context.

Good point. Given the ignorant comments on here I dont share your optimism though. As ever it becomes less of debate and more of a 'i want to win' argument for bairns on half term. It is disappointing that people feel the need to trivialise the issue simply because they cant understand it. That is what propogates the problem and gives it life.

That's the point I'm getting at. White people make black music and have helped in the evolution of black music. I still really don't understand how the word bastard makes it racist? "Oi, you fatty" - hahahahahaaaaaa "Oi, you fat bastard" - you racist wanker! eh? 49394[/snapback] Sima. Its pointless trying to explain it. You are clever enough to understand it. Trivialising something you cant comprehend is just further evidence of your own dim-witted ignorance though.

That you dont understand what the term 'culture' means is your problem. Read Bruner. He explains it perfectly. Yes , if it orginates in black culture and you read into it further then it is a facet of contemporary black culture. I'm afraid that whilst we have people who choose to ignore racism and its different nuances and connotations simply because they cant undertand then we have a problem.

alex. do me a favour. away from your very interesting story...(did you call him "bling" or say "bling bastard who i hope dies?") why have people failed ot describe the very 'bling' Craig Bellamy 'a bling bastard' 49345[/snapback] The comment 'he's a bling bastard who should die' or whatever was obviously distasteful and I don't agree with it. But one person has said it on here. I don't think it is necessarily racist. What point are you making? That one person has said something on here that you deem to be racist? Is that it? If so fine. 49353[/snapback] do you think the terms he used and the context had a racist tone? 49364[/snapback] No, but I'm sure he can speak for himself. I know Alberto quite well (his Dad and my Dad used to play football together) and he isn't racist to the best on my knowledge. I think he meant Jenas is a flash bastard although he obviously went over the top with his comments re: him deserving to die. At any time though please feel free to answer any of the questions I've asked you in this thread 49370[/snapback] I have . Ask them.You get an answer. I Repeat. Was the comment made racist in tone? You have little idea. Enjoy school next week. Why not CB? 49373[/snapback] I repeat no. You're very patronising, you're a school teacher on half-term, right? 49376[/snapback] Not for the first time. Wrong. Wouldnt get out of bed for a teachers salary. Your a side light? 49383[/snapback] What's a side light? 49386[/snapback] You. Not bright enough to be a head light.

Like you have everytime someone has pointed out to you that you were incorrect in this thread you mean? 49372[/snapback] side light 49374[/snapback] Eh? white people make "Black Music" you mong. 49377[/snapback] Dear God. You really are that thick arent you?

alex. do me a favour. away from your very interesting story...(did you call him "bling" or say "bling bastard who i hope dies?") why have people failed ot describe the very 'bling' Craig Bellamy 'a bling bastard' 49345[/snapback] The comment 'he's a bling bastard who should die' or whatever was obviously distasteful and I don't agree with it. But one person has said it on here. I don't think it is necessarily racist. What point are you making? That one person has said something on here that you deem to be racist? Is that it? If so fine. 49353[/snapback] do you think the terms he used and the context had a racist tone? 49364[/snapback] No, but I'm sure he can speak for himself. I know Alberto quite well (his Dad and my Dad used to play football together) and he isn't racist to the best on my knowledge. I think he meant Jenas is a flash bastard although he obviously went over the top with his comments re: him deserving to die. At any time though please feel free to answer any of the questions I've asked you in this thread 49370[/snapback] I have . Ask them.You get an answer. I Repeat. Was the comment made racist in tone? You have little idea. Enjoy school next week. Why not CB? 49373[/snapback] I repeat no. You're very patronising, you're a school teacher on half-term, right? 49376[/snapback] Not for the first time. Wrong. Wouldnt get out of bed for a teachers salary. Your a side light?

It isnt simply the word. If I walk up to you and say 'youre looking very bling' then its harmless If you walk up to someone else and say 'youre a bling bastard' does it change the meaning of the terminology? 'Bling' is rooted in black culture (see above) the players who get 'bling bastard' aimed at them tend to be black David Beckham get 'bling' See the difference? Context. Hopefully you can see that now

Like you have everytime someone has pointed out to you that you were incorrect in this thread you mean? 49372[/snapback] side light

alex. do me a favour. away from your very interesting story...(did you call him "bling" or say "bling bastard who i hope dies?") why have people failed ot describe the very 'bling' Craig Bellamy 'a bling bastard' 49345[/snapback] The comment 'he's a bling bastard who should die' or whatever was obviously distasteful and I don't agree with it. But one person has said it on here. I don't think it is necessarily racist. What point are you making? That one person has said something on here that you deem to be racist? Is that it? If so fine. 49353[/snapback] do you think the terms he used and the context had a racist tone? 49364[/snapback] No, but I'm sure he can speak for himself. I know Alberto quite well (his Dad and my Dad used to play football together) and he isn't racist to the best on my knowledge. I think he meant Jenas is a flash bastard although he obviously went over the top with his comments re: him deserving to die. At any time though please feel free to answer any of the questions I've asked you in this thread 49370[/snapback] I have . Ask them.You get an answer. I Repeat. Was the comment made racist in tone? You have little idea. Enjoy school next week. Why not CB?

You've just made that up. 49365[/snapback] go to about page 3 or 4 and see the BBC link. Then apologise.

Call someone a white shit at the next game. The stewards will probably think you're Chinese. To be white has no negative connotation in our society. I'm sure people have been called a white bastard and outnumbered significantly, if it was me the name calling in itself wouldn't bother me, just the anticipated severe beating. 49363[/snapback] I doubt they will confuse me with a Chinaman to be honest but I get the point. You mention our society. What is 'our' society? It has changed time and time again for the last (at least) 2000 years. the world has shrunk. We are multi-cultural. In name alone most of the time. White has no negative connotation because we are white. It isnt used negatively either. I constantly get people writing things saying things that cant be used 'black market' for example.

alex. do me a favour. away from your very interesting story...(did you call him "bling" or say "bling bastard who i hope dies?") why have people failed ot describe the very 'bling' Craig Bellamy 'a bling bastard' 49345[/snapback] The comment 'he's a bling bastard who should die' or whatever was obviously distasteful and I don't agree with it. But one person has said it on here. I don't think it is necessarily racist. What point are you making? That one person has said something on here that you deem to be racist? Is that it? If so fine. 49353[/snapback] do you think the terms he used and the context had a racist tone?

alex. do me a favour. away from your very interesting story...(did you call him "bling" or say "bling bastard who i hope dies?") why have people failed to describe the very 'bling' Craig Bellamy 'a bling bastard' shame that there are so few people who can see the obvious difference White man - 'bling' Black man - 'bling bastard who I hope dies' No difference? Youre playing the Side light Alex 49345[/snapback] eh? just because you attach the word bastard it becomes racist? Are you on smack? 49349[/snapback] I will spell it out : "Bling" = two meanings 1. ostentatious 2: term derived from black culture to describe black dress code and culture. example of 1st : Craig Bellamy/David Beckham How often after a game did people refer to Bellamy as a bling bastard? People refer to Beckham as 'bling' but rarely as 'bling bastard who I hope dies' The question is : Why refer to JJ, Dyer, Babayaro as 'bling bastards (I hope die)' s regularly? Why doesnt the term apply from the same fans to Craig Bellamy? Spot the difference in subtle nuance of the term, the context and the colour of the players. Why do they feel the need to use the vitriol? Some people reading this have understood. Becasue you dont, doesn't mean it doesnt exist.

I see what you mean, I just think it's unimportant. I value freedom of speech above the tight lipped fear of breaking political correctness. We all have differences and we have always ridiculed those differences amongst each other. Whether it's for being ginger, lanky, fat, bald, short, black, indian, Pakistani, white, Irish, Geordie, Mackem etc etc. People take the piss out of each other and I wouldn't want it any other way. What IS important is moving the hatred involved with racism toward the jovial banter involved in ripping the crap out of me for being lanky. Being lanky has no detrimental affect on my life other than people take the piss out of me. Being black incurs far more prejudice than inconsequential name calling. I don't think 'bling' is racist. If anyone else does, then it is. I'm not going to stop saying it though. I have the right to say what I want. I don't have the right to refuse someone a job on the basis of their colour or beat the shit out of them for it. It's that level of racism that needs to be tackled. 49332[/snapback] I have no problem with the word 'bling' in its basic meaning. I do have a problem with 'bling bastard' in its vitriolic and selective use. Very, very different As for your last comment. Agreed, although it depends whether your belief is to tackle the big problem head on which hasnt worked or educate people regarding the smaller issues. 49337[/snapback] I long for the day when I can call a player a black bastard without fear of a ban. Then you'll know we've gotten somewhere. Every game I hear "Lanky Bastard", "Aussie Bastard", "Fat Bastard", "Baldy twat" etc and no-one finds them offensive. Why is Black Bastard or Bling Bastard more offensive? Is it because the idea in the heads of the PC brigade is that it's bad to be black? Well it's not. It's just that racist people think it is and discriminate as a result. 49346[/snapback] I understand but its an unequal playing field. The idea isnt that it is bad to be 'black' It is the point that we use race negatively. Have you ever been called a 'white bastard'? Wouldnt bother me here but it would be a bit more intimidating if i was outnumbered significantly

alex. do me a favour. away from your very interesting story...(did you call him "bling" or say "bling bastard who i hope dies?") why have people failed to describe the very 'bling' Craig Bellamy 'a bling bastard' shame that there are so few people who can see the obvious difference White man - 'bling' Black man - 'bling bastard who I hope dies' No difference? Youre playing the Side light Alex

I think you meant "Beckham getting called 'bling' doesn't fit my argument, so I'm going to dismiss it out of hand." 49336[/snapback] No, i meant "you havent the cognitive capacity to spot the difference but i will try to give you the opportunity to try"

I see what you mean, I just think it's unimportant. I value freedom of speech above the tight lipped fear of breaking political correctness. We all have differences and we have always ridiculed those differences amongst each other. Whether it's for being ginger, lanky, fat, bald, short, black, indian, Pakistani, white, Irish, Geordie, Mackem etc etc. People take the piss out of each other and I wouldn't want it any other way. What IS important is moving the hatred involved with racism toward the jovial banter involved in ripping the crap out of me for being lanky. Being lanky has no detrimental affect on my life other than people take the piss out of me. Being black incurs far more prejudice than inconsequential name calling. I don't think 'bling' is racist. If anyone else does, then it is. I'm not going to stop saying it though. I have the right to say what I want. I don't have the right to refuse someone a job on the basis of their colour or beat the shit out of them for it. It's that level of racism that needs to be tackled. 49332[/snapback] I have no problem with the word 'bling' in its basic meaning. I do have a problem with 'bling bastard' in its vitriolic and selective use. Very, very different As for your last comment. Agreed, although it depends whether your belief is to tackle the big problem head on which hasnt worked or educate people regarding the smaller issues.

You tend to trivialise the issue Alex.See the other thread relatting to Carr. Its not an argument for people to 'win' You havent answered the Q Why has Craig Bellamy never been described as a bling bastard? You ignore the context. You have seen the evidence from this forum that people tend to get vitriolic. Why? Beckham get called 'bling' in a context very different to those used on these forums. I assume you are intelligent enough to realise that without trivialising it (again).

Beckham's been described as "bling" plenty. Or is he blacking up Jolson-style these days? 49328[/snapback] Does he play for, or ever has played for Newcastle? Was the word 'bling' used with 'bastard' after it in vitriolic terms hoping he would die?

Erm, we do. That's why I pay tax. It provides the less well off with a system of benefits that keeps poverty at a minimum. It's the well off providing for those without. I'm all for a higher rate of taxation on high earners and the Lib Dems did quite well running exactly that platform last year. Just a pity they aren't considered serious opposition yet. 49317[/snapback] Some kids are born to fail though simply because its hard to escape. Some are bright and can't get out. Its a shame. Humans are greedy. Whether the Lib Dems get in or not, the mixed economy is leaning more to the competitive side nowadays worldwide. It's 'survival of the fittest' in a way we havent seen for years. Plenty of exploitation.usually by the UK/US. Read about Suhartu in Indonesia for the perfect example of what could have been and what is now prevalent. 49323[/snapback] Try the 1980's under Thatcher. 49325[/snapback] Thatcher in the 1980s still had a lot of socialist ideals to dismantle. Privatisation has continued after her. Unions have less power than in her day. We are further to the right now than we were under her. I can't abide her and what her and Reagan set in motion is never going to end in my view.

Youre trivialising an important issue Alex. You dont seem to understand the complexities of the situation. No youre not. Bellamy can never be 'bling' in anything other than the OED version of the word. He has NEVER been called a 'bling bastard' on the forums in the context the others have. Check N-O or here for that comment. Do a search. See what it says. Explain why not. Dyer, Jenas and Babayaro have despite Bellamy having more written about him than any player. 49297[/snapback] I'm not trivialising it. How can I explain what other people meant though? Calling someone a bling bastard means they're flash though no? Also, what's wrong with using the OED version of the word? I tend to go with dictionary definitions rather than ones people apply to words in order to justify their argument. In any case, what point are you making. If you are saying a small minority of people have a racist agenda (or partly racist, i.e. the player's crap and on top of that he's black) when criticising players, then I would agree. However, the vast majority are not like this. 49307[/snapback] I will say this ONCE more look at the word 'coloured' in the OED and go out and call a big BLACK bloke it. See the comparison? Now go and find the origin of 'bling' and compare with the OED Different meanings. Very different. Now explain why the bloke you described as 'bling' never had the term used as a descriptor but the black fellas did. Frequently , by posters on NUFC websites and in pubs. 49311[/snapback] Sorry but I think 'bling' has a slightly more specific meaning than 'coloured'. And I can't explain comments made by other people. Bling means flash with loads of jewellery and stuff though doesn't it and it was born out of US hip-hop culture which is predominantly black, right? That would explain it to me. 49314[/snapback] Bling is a word associated with black culture. It can mean flash. 'coloured' is very precise in the OED Dictionary definitions dont tell you everything you need to know about the word. Craig Bellamy was 'bling' according to you. Never called 'bling bastard' Dyer, JJ, Babayaro have all been described as 'bling bastards' regularly Why? Personally, I think these people who use the term in that context have problems. Its a problem. 49318[/snapback] I don't think it is racist to be honest. Anyway, one more time, if you are saying a small minority of people have a racist agenda (or partly racist, i.e. the player's crap and on top of that he's black) when criticising players, then I would agree. However, the vast majority are not like this. Would you agree bez? 49324[/snapback] I have said what I think. The vast majority are decent. Others use the terms 'bling bastard' in 'mild' racist ways (personally i see nothing mild about it but that is term a friend used). Its inference is there simply because they would call others it if it wasnt the case. For instance Craig Bellamy, as you state. Its getting better but we are a long way from utopia. I still fail to see why people seem to feel the need to use a word couched in black culture to describe black players. But never the white ones? See what I mean?

Erm, we do. That's why I pay tax. It provides the less well off with a system of benefits that keeps poverty at a minimum. It's the well off providing for those without. I'm all for a higher rate of taxation on high earners and the Lib Dems did quite well running exactly that platform last year. Just a pity they aren't considered serious opposition yet. 49317[/snapback] Some kids are born to fail though simply because its hard to escape. Some are bright and can't get out. Its a shame. Humans are greedy. Whether the Lib Dems get in or not, the mixed economy is leaning more to the competitive side nowadays worldwide. It's 'survival of the fittest' in a way we havent seen for years. Plenty of exploitation.usually by the UK/US. Read about Suhartu in Indonesia for the perfect example of what could have been and what is now prevalent.

Youre trivialising an important issue Alex. You dont seem to understand the complexities of the situation. No youre not. Bellamy can never be 'bling' in anything other than the OED version of the word. He has NEVER been called a 'bling bastard' on the forums in the context the others have. Check N-O or here for that comment. Do a search. See what it says. Explain why not. Dyer, Jenas and Babayaro have despite Bellamy having more written about him than any player. 49297[/snapback] I'm not trivialising it. How can I explain what other people meant though? Calling someone a bling bastard means they're flash though no? Also, what's wrong with using the OED version of the word? I tend to go with dictionary definitions rather than ones people apply to words in order to justify their argument. In any case, what point are you making. If you are saying a small minority of people have a racist agenda (or partly racist, i.e. the player's crap and on top of that he's black) when criticising players, then I would agree. However, the vast majority are not like this. 49307[/snapback] I will say this ONCE more look at the word 'coloured' in the OED and go out and call a big BLACK bloke it. See the comparison? Now go and find the origin of 'bling' and compare with the OED Different meanings. Very different. Now explain why the bloke you described as 'bling' never had the term used as a descriptor but the black fellas did. Frequently , by posters on NUFC websites and in pubs. 49311[/snapback] Sorry but I think 'bling' has a slightly more specific meaning than 'coloured'. And I can't explain comments made by other people. Bling means flash with loads of jewellery and stuff though doesn't it and it was born out of US hip-hop culture which is predominantly black, right? That would explain it to me. 49314[/snapback] Bling is a word associated with black culture. It can mean flash. 'coloured' is very precise in the OED Dictionary definitions dont tell you everything you need to know about the word. Craig Bellamy was 'bling' according to you. Never called 'bling bastard' Dyer, JJ, Babayaro have all been described as 'bling bastards' regularly Why? Personally, I think these people who use the term in that context have problems. Its a problem.