bez

alex. do me a favour. away from your very interesting story...(did you call him "bling" or say "bling bastard who i hope dies?") why have people failed to describe the very 'bling' Craig Bellamy 'a bling bastard' shame that there are so few people who can see the obvious difference White man - 'bling' Black man - 'bling bastard who I hope dies' No difference? Youre playing the Side light Alex 49345[/snapback] eh? just because you attach the word bastard it becomes racist? Are you on smack? 49349[/snapback] I will spell it out : "Bling" = two meanings 1. ostentatious 2: term derived from black culture to describe black dress code and culture. example of 1st : Craig Bellamy/David Beckham How often after a game did people refer to Bellamy as a bling bastard? People refer to Beckham as 'bling' but rarely as 'bling bastard who I hope dies' The question is : Why refer to JJ, Dyer, Babayaro as 'bling bastards (I hope die)' s regularly? Why doesnt the term apply from the same fans to Craig Bellamy? Spot the difference in subtle nuance of the term, the context and the colour of the players. Why do they feel the need to use the vitriol? Some people reading this have understood. Becasue you dont, doesn't mean it doesnt exist.

I see what you mean, I just think it's unimportant. I value freedom of speech above the tight lipped fear of breaking political correctness. We all have differences and we have always ridiculed those differences amongst each other. Whether it's for being ginger, lanky, fat, bald, short, black, indian, Pakistani, white, Irish, Geordie, Mackem etc etc. People take the piss out of each other and I wouldn't want it any other way. What IS important is moving the hatred involved with racism toward the jovial banter involved in ripping the crap out of me for being lanky. Being lanky has no detrimental affect on my life other than people take the piss out of me. Being black incurs far more prejudice than inconsequential name calling. I don't think 'bling' is racist. If anyone else does, then it is. I'm not going to stop saying it though. I have the right to say what I want. I don't have the right to refuse someone a job on the basis of their colour or beat the shit out of them for it. It's that level of racism that needs to be tackled. 49332[/snapback] I have no problem with the word 'bling' in its basic meaning. I do have a problem with 'bling bastard' in its vitriolic and selective use. Very, very different As for your last comment. Agreed, although it depends whether your belief is to tackle the big problem head on which hasnt worked or educate people regarding the smaller issues. 49337[/snapback] I long for the day when I can call a player a black bastard without fear of a ban. Then you'll know we've gotten somewhere. Every game I hear "Lanky Bastard", "Aussie Bastard", "Fat Bastard", "Baldy twat" etc and no-one finds them offensive. Why is Black Bastard or Bling Bastard more offensive? Is it because the idea in the heads of the PC brigade is that it's bad to be black? Well it's not. It's just that racist people think it is and discriminate as a result. 49346[/snapback] I understand but its an unequal playing field. The idea isnt that it is bad to be 'black' It is the point that we use race negatively. Have you ever been called a 'white bastard'? Wouldnt bother me here but it would be a bit more intimidating if i was outnumbered significantly

alex. do me a favour. away from your very interesting story...(did you call him "bling" or say "bling bastard who i hope dies?") why have people failed to describe the very 'bling' Craig Bellamy 'a bling bastard' shame that there are so few people who can see the obvious difference White man - 'bling' Black man - 'bling bastard who I hope dies' No difference? Youre playing the Side light Alex

I think you meant "Beckham getting called 'bling' doesn't fit my argument, so I'm going to dismiss it out of hand." 49336[/snapback] No, i meant "you havent the cognitive capacity to spot the difference but i will try to give you the opportunity to try"

I see what you mean, I just think it's unimportant. I value freedom of speech above the tight lipped fear of breaking political correctness. We all have differences and we have always ridiculed those differences amongst each other. Whether it's for being ginger, lanky, fat, bald, short, black, indian, Pakistani, white, Irish, Geordie, Mackem etc etc. People take the piss out of each other and I wouldn't want it any other way. What IS important is moving the hatred involved with racism toward the jovial banter involved in ripping the crap out of me for being lanky. Being lanky has no detrimental affect on my life other than people take the piss out of me. Being black incurs far more prejudice than inconsequential name calling. I don't think 'bling' is racist. If anyone else does, then it is. I'm not going to stop saying it though. I have the right to say what I want. I don't have the right to refuse someone a job on the basis of their colour or beat the shit out of them for it. It's that level of racism that needs to be tackled. 49332[/snapback] I have no problem with the word 'bling' in its basic meaning. I do have a problem with 'bling bastard' in its vitriolic and selective use. Very, very different As for your last comment. Agreed, although it depends whether your belief is to tackle the big problem head on which hasnt worked or educate people regarding the smaller issues.

You tend to trivialise the issue Alex.See the other thread relatting to Carr. Its not an argument for people to 'win' You havent answered the Q Why has Craig Bellamy never been described as a bling bastard? You ignore the context. You have seen the evidence from this forum that people tend to get vitriolic. Why? Beckham get called 'bling' in a context very different to those used on these forums. I assume you are intelligent enough to realise that without trivialising it (again).

Beckham's been described as "bling" plenty. Or is he blacking up Jolson-style these days? 49328[/snapback] Does he play for, or ever has played for Newcastle? Was the word 'bling' used with 'bastard' after it in vitriolic terms hoping he would die?

Erm, we do. That's why I pay tax. It provides the less well off with a system of benefits that keeps poverty at a minimum. It's the well off providing for those without. I'm all for a higher rate of taxation on high earners and the Lib Dems did quite well running exactly that platform last year. Just a pity they aren't considered serious opposition yet. 49317[/snapback] Some kids are born to fail though simply because its hard to escape. Some are bright and can't get out. Its a shame. Humans are greedy. Whether the Lib Dems get in or not, the mixed economy is leaning more to the competitive side nowadays worldwide. It's 'survival of the fittest' in a way we havent seen for years. Plenty of exploitation.usually by the UK/US. Read about Suhartu in Indonesia for the perfect example of what could have been and what is now prevalent. 49323[/snapback] Try the 1980's under Thatcher. 49325[/snapback] Thatcher in the 1980s still had a lot of socialist ideals to dismantle. Privatisation has continued after her. Unions have less power than in her day. We are further to the right now than we were under her. I can't abide her and what her and Reagan set in motion is never going to end in my view.

Youre trivialising an important issue Alex. You dont seem to understand the complexities of the situation. No youre not. Bellamy can never be 'bling' in anything other than the OED version of the word. He has NEVER been called a 'bling bastard' on the forums in the context the others have. Check N-O or here for that comment. Do a search. See what it says. Explain why not. Dyer, Jenas and Babayaro have despite Bellamy having more written about him than any player. 49297[/snapback] I'm not trivialising it. How can I explain what other people meant though? Calling someone a bling bastard means they're flash though no? Also, what's wrong with using the OED version of the word? I tend to go with dictionary definitions rather than ones people apply to words in order to justify their argument. In any case, what point are you making. If you are saying a small minority of people have a racist agenda (or partly racist, i.e. the player's crap and on top of that he's black) when criticising players, then I would agree. However, the vast majority are not like this. 49307[/snapback] I will say this ONCE more look at the word 'coloured' in the OED and go out and call a big BLACK bloke it. See the comparison? Now go and find the origin of 'bling' and compare with the OED Different meanings. Very different. Now explain why the bloke you described as 'bling' never had the term used as a descriptor but the black fellas did. Frequently , by posters on NUFC websites and in pubs. 49311[/snapback] Sorry but I think 'bling' has a slightly more specific meaning than 'coloured'. And I can't explain comments made by other people. Bling means flash with loads of jewellery and stuff though doesn't it and it was born out of US hip-hop culture which is predominantly black, right? That would explain it to me. 49314[/snapback] Bling is a word associated with black culture. It can mean flash. 'coloured' is very precise in the OED Dictionary definitions dont tell you everything you need to know about the word. Craig Bellamy was 'bling' according to you. Never called 'bling bastard' Dyer, JJ, Babayaro have all been described as 'bling bastards' regularly Why? Personally, I think these people who use the term in that context have problems. Its a problem. 49318[/snapback] I don't think it is racist to be honest. Anyway, one more time, if you are saying a small minority of people have a racist agenda (or partly racist, i.e. the player's crap and on top of that he's black) when criticising players, then I would agree. However, the vast majority are not like this. Would you agree bez? 49324[/snapback] I have said what I think. The vast majority are decent. Others use the terms 'bling bastard' in 'mild' racist ways (personally i see nothing mild about it but that is term a friend used). Its inference is there simply because they would call others it if it wasnt the case. For instance Craig Bellamy, as you state. Its getting better but we are a long way from utopia. I still fail to see why people seem to feel the need to use a word couched in black culture to describe black players. But never the white ones? See what I mean?

Erm, we do. That's why I pay tax. It provides the less well off with a system of benefits that keeps poverty at a minimum. It's the well off providing for those without. I'm all for a higher rate of taxation on high earners and the Lib Dems did quite well running exactly that platform last year. Just a pity they aren't considered serious opposition yet. 49317[/snapback] Some kids are born to fail though simply because its hard to escape. Some are bright and can't get out. Its a shame. Humans are greedy. Whether the Lib Dems get in or not, the mixed economy is leaning more to the competitive side nowadays worldwide. It's 'survival of the fittest' in a way we havent seen for years. Plenty of exploitation.usually by the UK/US. Read about Suhartu in Indonesia for the perfect example of what could have been and what is now prevalent.

Youre trivialising an important issue Alex. You dont seem to understand the complexities of the situation. No youre not. Bellamy can never be 'bling' in anything other than the OED version of the word. He has NEVER been called a 'bling bastard' on the forums in the context the others have. Check N-O or here for that comment. Do a search. See what it says. Explain why not. Dyer, Jenas and Babayaro have despite Bellamy having more written about him than any player. 49297[/snapback] I'm not trivialising it. How can I explain what other people meant though? Calling someone a bling bastard means they're flash though no? Also, what's wrong with using the OED version of the word? I tend to go with dictionary definitions rather than ones people apply to words in order to justify their argument. In any case, what point are you making. If you are saying a small minority of people have a racist agenda (or partly racist, i.e. the player's crap and on top of that he's black) when criticising players, then I would agree. However, the vast majority are not like this. 49307[/snapback] I will say this ONCE more look at the word 'coloured' in the OED and go out and call a big BLACK bloke it. See the comparison? Now go and find the origin of 'bling' and compare with the OED Different meanings. Very different. Now explain why the bloke you described as 'bling' never had the term used as a descriptor but the black fellas did. Frequently , by posters on NUFC websites and in pubs. 49311[/snapback] Sorry but I think 'bling' has a slightly more specific meaning than 'coloured'. And I can't explain comments made by other people. Bling means flash with loads of jewellery and stuff though doesn't it and it was born out of US hip-hop culture which is predominantly black, right? That would explain it to me. 49314[/snapback] Bling is a word associated with black culture. It can mean flash. 'coloured' is very precise in the OED Dictionary definitions dont tell you everything you need to know about the word. Craig Bellamy was 'bling' according to you. Never called 'bling bastard' Dyer, JJ, Babayaro have all been described as 'bling bastards' regularly Why? Personally, I think these people who use the term in that context have problems. Its a problem.

Youre trivialising an important issue Alex. You dont seem to understand the complexities of the situation. No youre not. Bellamy can never be 'bling' in anything other than the OED version of the word. He has NEVER been called a 'bling bastard' on the forums in the context the others have. Check N-O or here for that comment. Do a search. See what it says. Explain why not. Dyer, Jenas and Babayaro have despite Bellamy having more written about him than any player. 49297[/snapback] I'm not trivialising it. How can I explain what other people meant though? Calling someone a bling bastard means they're flash though no? Also, what's wrong with using the OED version of the word? I tend to go with dictionary definitions rather than ones people apply to words in order to justify their argument. In any case, what point are you making. If you are saying a small minority of people have a racist agenda (or partly racist, i.e. the player's crap and on top of that he's black) when criticising players, then I would agree. However, the vast majority are not like this. 49307[/snapback] I will say this ONCE more look at the word 'coloured' in the OED and go out and call a big BLACK bloke it. See the comparison? Now go and find the origin of 'bling' and compare with the OED Different meanings. Very different. Now explain why the bloke you described as 'bling' never had the term used as a descriptor but the black fellas did. Frequently , by posters on NUFC websites and in pubs.

One is white. One is black. i havent seen Carr described needlessly as a 'potato picking tosser' or anything else related to his Irish blood and hence there is no real need to explain it. Is there? 49299[/snapback] I've called him a miserable, grumpy Paddy bastard many's a time. Well as long as you've never experienced it, that's ok. Irish people suffer bigotry in the UK btw. 49303[/snapback] Of course they do. However: Ever seen Craig Bellamy described on here as a Bling bastard? Why not? Despite having more written about him than any player in our recent history. So why do they reserve it for JJ, Dyer and Babayaro? Bellamy is (using the OED definition-very differnt from its true meaning and origin, 'bling') (just before you start - have a look at the word 'coloured' in the OED and see the analogy) Do people regularly align stephen Carr's footballing ability to the term 'paddy bastard' (which is indeed racist) Not really. Plenty there for thought.

He does play for Ireland though and he has Irish roots 49298[/snapback] In his hair? did you ever watch Roots?

One is white. One is black. i havent seen Carr described needlessly as a 'potato picking tosser' or anything else related to his Irish blood and hence there is no real need to explain it. Is there?

Youre trivialising an important issue Alex. You dont seem to understand the complexities of the situation. No youre not. Bellamy can never be 'bling' in anything other than the OED version of the word. He has NEVER been called a 'bling bastard' on the forums in the context the others have. Check N-O or here for that comment. Do a search. See what it says. Explain why not. Dyer, Jenas and Babayaro have despite Bellamy having more written about him than any player.

Some of the stuff I've said about O'Brien would make your ears bleed, there were times I hated him when he played for us and I got the impression that was the general feeling. JJ was always a big arguing point, an ever decreasing crowd waiting for his potential to start paying off and the people that were sick of waiting. I'm not sure of JJ's lifestyle but if it was anything like Dyer's then bling would not be an unfair comment, O'Brien's less bling than my granny. Also why are you so obsessed with racism only being a black thing? O'Brien is Irish you know. 49289[/snapback] What exactly does his culture and its attendant 'bling' have to do with his ability? There is, sadly, a direct correlation between the fact we seem to accept that we can use a term that is deeply seated in black culture follwed by the word 'bastard' and think it is acceptable. It isnt. There is, in my opinion a link between SOME who use the terminology and the implication. Why use it? As mentioned earlier, 'coloured' in context wasnt deemed to have much racist connotation 20-30 years ago. I suggest people need to consider the OED (Oxford English Dictionary) definition of the words 'coloured' and 'bling' and see that in some contexts we have seen on this forum and others it is beyond a joke. AOB isnt Irish

Is that because they aren't really as capable as their peers but got the job due to positive discrimination? 49116[/snapback] No, neither. There are cases (many of them) where BLACK people /women/black women etc (those we know from the statistics published by the DTI,EOC are discrimated against) DO THE SAME JOB (exactly the same job) and get paid less for it. Now, this happens regularly enough to put a 20% disparity between women and men doing EXACTLY THE SAME JOB across the UK. Nowt to do with ability. Lots to do with prejudice. The point is, if British society is capable of this then what makes NUFC any different in its ability to tolerate Black players and treat them equally? Now, MOST people are rational. Most people also have some prejudice of some sort somewhere, however much we have rightly pushed it away. Given Andy Coles return to SJP and the bile (much of it involving the word BLACK) and the ridiculous comments made about players recently: Compare these comments from forums: JJ (break legs/die/bling bastard etc) with AOB (shit). The vitriol is very different. The same with Baba/Carr. Dyer when not playing (waste of spunk) and Bowyer when not "playing". Whether we care to see it or not there is an undercurrent. Not as visible as it used to be but a bigger issue than some who care to acknowledge. For every exception to the rule there is another example we can mention. Nobody has said that SJP has turned into Burnley. Not have we said that every poster is Nick Griffin. However, racism is on the rise nationally in many ways. Politically, the NF/BNP are gaining some ground. Tensions go with it. To ignore it is fine. We have had that bullshit line from several people. So why do we have an EOC? KROF? Anyway, at least some people have decided to think (for a change) Next time you or the people sat next to you at the match or the pub slag Stephen Carr, ask yourself whether it was preceded with a moniker related to his ancestry and culture. did they do the other lads the same courtesy? One strike and out is the racism rule in football grounds. Until we have eradicated the problem entirely we need to keep on eye on it and perhaps some people will notice we arent as free from it as many suggest. 49258[/snapback] That's a pretty sizable response to a joke comment! I agree with you that society has to be pro-actively anti-racist for quite a long time to come but there is a whole other side to this argument. If you just say racism is wrong and let's put together some blanket policies to stop it the problems you end up with are just as bad. Labelling things as racist which aren't racist, making people afraid to discuss the issues, hysteria and quite possibly positive discrimination. Here's food for thought, why not just positively discriminate for poor, underprivileged people? Starting with better education and public health. 49283[/snapback] blanket policies already exist for racism. Most decent people understand its a 'one strike and out' situation. I totally agree with your comment regarding underprivileged and poor. It all needs doing. birmingham at present sums it up. Its back to Toxteth and the lessons still havent been learned. What next? Well wait for a few years and see if Burnley erupts again. Its part of the same equation of course. Povery breeds contempt for those who have things (some people without get bitter) Culture clash? People saying 'they' have 'our' jobs....etc Plenty to do Nb: The word 'coloured' was acceptable 20 years ago. Some stll happily called black people 'niggers' Some would suggest that the waywe use labels (and indeed the fact that we have used them) determines what the implied message is.

vitriolic? Wonder what he feels about AOB 49267[/snapback] Probably thought he was a tryer who was shite. 49271[/snapback] Perhaps. Wonder if he got the vitriol. If I quoted you it was in error. Just got in and buying something on ebay is top of the agenda at present. 49273[/snapback] In fairness to AOB, I think he was a 100-er, even if he wasn't good enough. Not sure JJ always gave his all. 49275[/snapback] I dont buy that. JJ played in every position for NUFC. We ruined him and the only moan he had was pointing out that Newcastle is big village. It is. Unwise to say it but true enough. I do think some players get the vitriol easier than others. 49278[/snapback] Ok then Bez, how come despite some very ordinary performances JJ got practically no stick at the match whereas AOB got loads of stick? Explain that. 49280[/snapback] JJ got lots and lots of abuse in the Leazes. He is one of the few black players I have heard the words 'black bastard' shouted at recently. Both got it Alex. This is simply an example. Look at the vitriol in the comment above. Find a similar AOB one? Its out of proportion to the kids displays and his temperament. Why?

vitriolic? Wonder what he feels about AOB 49267[/snapback] Probably thought he was a tryer who was shite. 49271[/snapback] Perhaps. Wonder if he got the vitriol. If I quoted you it was in error. Just got in and buying something on ebay is top of the agenda at present. 49273[/snapback] In fairness to AOB, I think he was a 100-er, even if he wasn't good enough. Not sure JJ always gave his all. 49275[/snapback] I dont buy that. JJ played in every position for NUFC. We ruined him and the only moan he had was pointing out that Newcastle is big village. It is. Unwise to say it but true enough. I do think some players get the vitriol easier than others.

vitriolic? Wonder what he feels about AOB 49267[/snapback] Probably thought he was a tryer who was shite. 49271[/snapback] Perhaps. Wonder if he got the vitriol. If I quoted you it was in error. Just got in and buying something on ebay is top of the agenda at present.

Sorry. not with you Alex. Explain please.

vitriolic? Wonder what he feels about AOB

Also has a lot of black academics, something you don't find in UK Universities. 49251[/snapback] Uncle Tom's tbh. 49255[/snapback] You reckon? have I been whooshed? i would have thought there are plenty of radical thinkers amongst African-American academics. Also, would you prefer a situation like this country where the opposite is the case and there are hardly any black people in University departments? 49260[/snapback]

Is that because they aren't really as capable as their peers but got the job due to positive discrimination? 49116[/snapback] No, neither. There are cases (many of them) where BLACK people /women/black women etc (those we know from the statistics published by the DTI,EOC are discrimated against) DO THE SAME JOB (exactly the same job) and get paid less for it. Now, this happens regularly enough to put a 20% disparity between women and men doing EXACTLY THE SAME JOB across the UK. Nowt to do with ability. Lots to do with prejudice. The point is, if British society is capable of this then what makes NUFC any different in its ability to tolerate Black players and treat them equally? Now, MOST people are rational. Most people also have some prejudice of some sort somewhere, however much we have rightly pushed it away. Given Andy Coles return to SJP and the bile (much of it involving the word BLACK) and the ridiculous comments made about players recently: Compare these comments from forums: JJ (break legs/die/bling bastard etc) with AOB (shit). The vitriol is very different. The same with Baba/Carr. Dyer when not playing (waste of spunk) and Bowyer when not "playing". Whether we care to see it or not there is an undercurrent. Not as visible as it used to be but a bigger issue than some who care to acknowledge. For every exception to the rule there is another example we can mention. Nobody has said that SJP has turned into Burnley. Not have we said that every poster is Nick Griffin. However, racism is on the rise nationally in many ways. Politically, the NF/BNP are gaining some ground. Tensions go with it. To ignore it is fine. We have had that bullshit line from several people. So why do we have an EOC? KROF? Anyway, at least some people have decided to think (for a change) Next time you or the people sat next to you at the match or the pub slag Stephen Carr, ask yourself whether it was preceded with a moniker related to his ancestry and culture. did they do the other lads the same courtesy? One strike and out is the racism rule in football grounds. Until we have eradicated the problem entirely we need to keep on eye on it and perhaps some people will notice we arent as free from it as many suggest.