Christmas Tree

I can't se any uk government turning it's back on oil state investment. Just won't happen. As for extra money, the Tories have already budgeted 30% extra for counter terrorism and whether we need more 20,000 more police is debatable given the 30% drop in crime, the country's finances and imo, the little impact (if any) it would have on terrorism. As for immigration, I'm not sure how increasing the minimum wage would reduce it? It will be even more appealing to migrants and just cause a knock on effect through most wage structures. Im all for all this free stuff and extra spending, just not as euphoric about it as some of you. A lot of trust is being put in a handful of inexperienced old "marxists", to have suddenly found the formula to shangri-la. Let's not forget thirst people couldn't even galvanise the support of their own MP's and have only been kept in situ by a well organised "young" movement. Nothing wrong with that in principal except the younger generation tend to be less aware of the past economic difficulties caused by Tax and Spend. If it goes wrong, everyone's taxes go up, borrowing / mortgage rates rise, more is taken from public spending to pay ever higher debt payments and recession job losses follow. I obviously hope it works, but I won't be surprised in the slightest if we're in the shit before the next election.

Im on about Jeremy releasing it. But let's be honest, all governments snuggle up to these rich states. I was quite shocked yesterday reading what Quatar owned in the U.K.

Im still voting Labour, however have little confidence that much can be done against these loners. The problem is if these attacks continue then a pressure will grow for extreme action by governments which seem unthinkable and will only inflame the situation.

Hopefully it will get published on Friday.

Not really. If they've been flagged a couple of years ago, not committed a crime, not identified as plotting anything, honestly what can you do. Even if (which is totally unrealistic) you had phone taps and 24 hour surveillance, you couldn't stop one jumping in his van and mowing down the public.

No nothing about it? Link? Regardless, I don't think kitchen knives and a deposit for a van require much funding. These individuals think they are doing allahs work and getting their rewards in the sky. Hard not to think a lot of our follies are coming home to roost.

Exactly, if they really want us to turn against Muslims, that's how it will evolve. The sound bites might comfort us but I really don't think any politicians have the answers to this.

Well lets face the reality. It's not nice Muslims and terrorists, there's a whole sliding scale of anti western views within UK Muslim communities. A bit like the edl, there's a swathe of hardcore anti west Muslims who support IS and others but do not cross that line to Kill. Lots get reported to MI5 etc but there's very little they can do regardless of how vile and vocal they are. Thousands get investigated but as they haven't committed a crime drop down the radar. The idea that a couple of more PCO's are somehow going to be able to not only monitors the hundreds in each town or be able to find out that one has suddenly snapped and is off to Hertz with a kitchen knife is just daft. The security services have a glimmer of a chance when they are dealing with cells and possibly when a plot is being openly communicated or directed, but these loners who just decide one day to attack are pretty much unstoppable. Personally, I fear we are going to find them going after a lot softer targets in the future. Supermarkets, cinemas etc. Sad times.

See Diane's been rolled out tonight for more car crash interviews.

Fuck me This is the real world not love actually.

Its all pretty stupid anyway, Pandora's box is open and an extra 100,000 coppers isn't going to stop these sort of individuals doing this sort of thing.

I don't know about capitalising, his 2015 opposition to shoot to kill seems to be hitting all the bulletins.

Awful news. RIP

I think it will probably emerge that a few of those dead or in hospital did.

Be interesting how this affects the next few days of campaigning. May suffers due to police cuts. Corbyn suffers due to perceived weakness on security.

Your obviously not watching the telly as all the Labour top brass have been on the telly slipping campaign messages into there air time.

I must admit I didn't realise it was as bad as that here til I heard that lady and read a bit more. As I've said, I think recent attacks are now probably starting to focus minds within governments and Muslim communities. Sounds like a good starting point but even then I think we are now stuck in a world where the "loser" with a hope of getting his rewards in the afterlife will become just as common as those high school shooters in America.

Exactly, but it's been that way with them under all governments for decades. Money talks I guess until it's your own lot that's shedding blood.

I think May was pretty spot on. i liken this (what the young lady talks about on QT) to the immigration debate. For years politicians ignored voters concerns about immigration and the conversation was closed down leading to UKIP / BNP / Brexit. They should have took it on, talked more about the benefits and addressed the underlying concerns. Now we have the PC brigade frightened to discuss these sort of preaching going on within our communities. Not the severest hate preachers, but pretty close and very unhealthy for promoting a multi cultural society. Im sure that lady represents the right way to sort this out.

They're not illegal.

I think what she's talking about is the Saudi based hate preachers who are coming in to mainstream mosques all the time. There was a young Muslim girl on QT after the Manchester attack who couldn't understand why this is so common in her community and that they need stopping. She was quite impressive and well informed on the subject.

Eye witness on sky reckons he saw five men each with foot long knives.

Just got be thankful that it's so hard for these people to get hold of automatic guns in this country.

Now Vauxhall area.