Papa Lazaru 0 Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 And in probably 2/3 of his international appearences he came on as a sub . IMHO it's a tad bit harsh to judge players who don't get the opportunity to prove themselves over a whole game. The criticism of him in this thread becomes even more ridiculous when I see that he was brought on in the 80th minute yesterday ... when England were already 1-0 down. Until I had looked it up a couple of minutes ago I thought he was thrown on earlier. Wow, so Hargreaves wasn't the supersub who single-handedly turned around probably rubbish English performance within 10 minutes... I imagine to be fair some of the criticism (well certainly mine) was not off him, but of the idea of the manager thinking he would turn a game on its head and get us two goals which he isn't likely to do. Also Lampard whilst not playign well is far more likely to score than Hargreaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitty-sniper 0 Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 (edited) Owen Hargreaves, why is Owen Hargreaves playing for England? Because he is doing well at one of European's top football clubs? It seems easy to make the bloke from a foreign league the main culprit... 30472[/snapback] He was far from being the main culprit, but for me he's never done anything in an England shirt which justifies his place in the squad. 30482[/snapback] his performances in an england shirt make me wounder weather that this is all a lie and that he did infact, wounder onto the england bench stoned one day and sven took one look at his hair, and decided he must be a highly talented footballer. he's the invisible man when playing imo, i never notice him touch the ball once when he's on the field. when Dyer plays for england, you notice it, the same with Joe Cole but Hargreaves just seems unbelievably average, he makes no mistakes in an england shirt, but he does nothing spectacular. He basically plays like Jeenas has done in the last 2 years, yet he's not had 1 good season that he's been living off for that time, he's always performed that bad. Edited September 8, 2005 by kitty-sniper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34631 Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Owen Hargreaves, why is Owen Hargreaves playing for England? Because he is doing well at one of European's top football clubs? It seems easy to make the bloke from a foreign league the main culprit... 30472[/snapback] Playing the English xenophobe card again, Isegrim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8876 Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Owen Hargreaves, why is Owen Hargreaves playing for England? Because he is doing well at one of European's top football clubs? It seems easy to make the bloke from a foreign league the main culprit... 30472[/snapback] Playing the English xenophobe card again, Isegrim? 30627[/snapback] I didn't want to imply that. It's just that the player seems an easy target as rarely anybody sees him play at club level. The same happens (happened as there are hardly any players playing abroad anymore) in Jormany as well... Oliver Bierhoff was always a good target. Though, thinking about it, a player like Hargreaves isn't in the focus of the English media hype around players like Beckham, SWP, Cole, Gerrard etc. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Northern Ireland competitive victories are a bit like a bus. You wait ages for one then two come along at once. TAXI! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol 0 Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Owen Hargreaves, why is Owen Hargreaves playing for England? Because he is doing well at one of European's top football clubs? It seems easy to make the bloke from a foreign league the main culprit... 30472[/snapback] Playing the English xenophobe card again, Isegrim? 30627[/snapback] I didn't want to imply that. It's just that the player seems an easy target as rarely anybody sees him play at club level. The same happens (happened as there are hardly any players playing abroad anymore) in Jormany as well... Oliver Bierhoff was always a good target. Though, thinking about it, a player like Hargreaves isn't in the focus of the English media hype around players like Beckham, SWP, Cole, Gerrard etc. ... 30637[/snapback] I couldn't care less if he's amazing for Bayern, it's what he does for England that worries me. You say he's not been given a chance? Well are you saying that he would have more influence than either Gerrard, Beckham or Lampard? He's being targeted because he's a poor player for England, not because he's playing in Germany. Get over yourself man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted September 9, 2005 Author Share Posted September 9, 2005 Hargreaves is a class palyer when he plays in Jormany - when he comes on for England he's never looked that impressive I suspect that the style of play is different - he just hasn't enough experience of playing PL style and it shows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34631 Posted September 9, 2005 Share Posted September 9, 2005 Northern Ireland competitive victories are a bit like a bus. You wait ages for one then two come along at once. TAXI! 30661[/snapback] To be fair there was a few days between them. I'd never wait that long for a bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8876 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Owen Hargreaves, why is Owen Hargreaves playing for England? Because he is doing well at one of European's top football clubs? It seems easy to make the bloke from a foreign league the main culprit... 30472[/snapback] Playing the English xenophobe card again, Isegrim? 30627[/snapback] I didn't want to imply that. It's just that the player seems an easy target as rarely anybody sees him play at club level. The same happens (happened as there are hardly any players playing abroad anymore) in Jormany as well... Oliver Bierhoff was always a good target. Though, thinking about it, a player like Hargreaves isn't in the focus of the English media hype around players like Beckham, SWP, Cole, Gerrard etc. ... 30637[/snapback] I couldn't care less if he's amazing for Bayern, it's what he does for England that worries me. You say he's not been given a chance? Well are you saying that he would have more influence than either Gerrard, Beckham or Lampard? I didn't say that he would have more influence than either for them. They are rightly ahead of him in the pecking order. Though IMHO a squad player who was brought on in the 80th minute when England were already 1-0 down and playing rubbish facing more criticism than those players who had much more time to break down a mediocre Northern Irish team is ridiculous. He's being targeted because he's a poor player for England, not because he's playing in Germany. Get over yourself man! 30694[/snapback] So why isn't Lampard targeted for the poor result against Northern Ireland in the same way? I have now seen the game and he was really poor, as was Gerrard. In the Guardian they wrote that Hargreaves wasn't in form. Granted, his England form it probably isn't good enough to warrant a place in the team, but from what he has shown at the start of the Bundesliga (where he scored the first goal in the opening game of the season) warranted a call up. Most papers are furious that with Hargreaves a defensive minded player was brought on. Yes, Hargreaves mostly plays in defensive positions. Though, people who have seen him in action probably know that he also is able to play in more attacking roles as he is an dynamic and agile player (with really poor passing abilities, a bit like Bowyer IMHO). So as an outsider looking at the scenario Eriksson faced on Wednesday the introduction made perfectly sense. He had only had Upson, Kirkland, Neville, Hargreaves and Bent on the bench. Bent would have been the only attacking option. Though, there were already Defoe, Owen and Rooney on the pitch. So the manager took off another midfield player and brought on someone who at least in Jormany can score goals. It is not as Eriksson did bring on an abortion of football like Phil Neville... Again IMHO the criticism should be launched at the likes of Gerrard, Lampard or Wright-Philipps who had between 54 and 80 minutes on the pitch to get a result against Northern Ireland. But to single out a player for not changing the match who only played 10 minutes is a sign for hypocrisy. To me it just looks as that the bloke from abroad seems to be a much easier scapegoat than all those underperforming superstars... Anyway, good luck for the two remaining matches - be it with or without Hargreaves. A World Cup over here without England would definitely be missing something ... ...and be it the hype around the English team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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