Gemmill 36223 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 It was on the radio the other day that, since the premiership was formed, there have been 16 occasions when a manager has publically said a player will never play for him again. 12 of these occasions involved Souness. Now, I have no way of testing the validity of this statement, but can anyone say, in all honesty, that it isn't likely to be true? We all knew what was going to happen to our more difficult-to-mange players the day Souness came, with all to predictable results. Frankly I can't be arsed arguing about Souness anymore - to me his worth as a manager has been shown at every club he has been with bar Rangers, none so more clearly than here. Those that don't want to see it, that incredibly think Faye was an acceptable signing for instance, then fine. We can continue this conversation at the end of the year or when Souness is sacked, whichever comes first. 37873[/snapback] Absolutely, We were right weren't we mate. It's all been an obvious scenario, obvious to all those without rose tinted specs © 38005[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 (edited) That looks like Bret Hart Edited September 23, 2005 by Sima Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 That looks like Bret Hart 38046[/snapback] So it wasn't just me thinking that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 So Bellamy is the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 So Bellamy is the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever will be? 38057[/snapback] So it wasn't just me thinking that too, i was just about to post it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6369 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 It was on the radio the other day that, since the premiership was formed, there have been 16 occasions when a manager has publically said a player will never play for him again. 12 of these occasions involved Souness.37873[/snapback] Can you name them?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 It was on the radio the other day that, since the premiership was formed, there have been 16 occasions when a manager has publically said a player will never play for him again. 12 of these occasions involved Souness.37873[/snapback] Can you name them?? 38083[/snapback] Sleepy, Bashful, Grumpy...erm...Happy.....hang on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 It was on the radio the other day that, since the premiership was formed, there have been 16 occasions when a manager has publically said a player will never play for him again. 12 of these occasions involved Souness.37873[/snapback] Can you name them?? 38083[/snapback] To start i'm guessing: Bellamy Robert Cole Yorke Dunn? There was at least one at Rangers can't remember name can't think of/care about the others! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6369 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I don't believe he actually said that about Robert.... Robert said he'd never play for the club again whilst Souness was in charge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18343 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 It was on the radio the other day that, since the premiership was formed, there have been 16 occasions when a manager has publically said a player will never play for him again. 12 of these occasions involved Souness.37873[/snapback] Can you name them?? 38083[/snapback] No, I can't, and I stated so in my post if you bothered to read it - this was just a fact stated by someone on the radio. However, it seems reasonable to me, and even if the numbers quoted are not quite right, I am sure no manager has fallen out with as many players as Souness - not even close. Can you name someone who has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I don't believe he actually said that about Robert.... Robert said he'd never play for the club again whilst Souness was in charge... 38091[/snapback] I bet its being counted though, because he was never going to pick him again and was always going to kick him out at the end of the season. Either way that list i've come up with is bad enough for any manager by the end of their career, he isn't finsihed yet and theres others i couldn't name!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 It was on the radio the other day that, since the premiership was formed, there have been 16 occasions when a manager has publically said a player will never play for him again. 12 of these occasions involved Souness.37873[/snapback] Can you name them?? 38083[/snapback] To start i'm guessing: Bellamy Robert Cole Yorke Dunn? There was at least one at Rangers can't remember name can't think of/care about the others! 38089[/snapback] Andy Todd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6369 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 If it's a case of you can't recall the names then I'm surprised you didn't take closer notice seeing as it was discussing our current manager... If it's a case of numbers mentioned but no names, then frankly that's shite journalism! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 So Bellamy is the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever will be? 38057[/snapback] The Excellence of Execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6369 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I don't believe he actually said that about Robert.... Robert said he'd never play for the club again whilst Souness was in charge... 38091[/snapback] I bet its being counted though, because he was never going to pick him again and was always going to kick him out at the end of the season. Either way that list i've come up with is bad enough for any manager by the end of their career, he isn't finsihed yet and theres others i couldn't name!!! 38094[/snapback] I bet it is being counted and it only serves to cement my opinion that it's shite journalism. A manager's opinion and what he says are two completely different things - journalism should be based on facts, not conjecture.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Most of the abuse against Souness is based on conjecture from certain people though........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18343 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 If it's a case of you can't recall the names then I'm surprised you didn't take closer notice seeing as it was discussing our current manager... If it's a case of numbers mentioned but no names, then frankly that's shite journalism! 38098[/snapback] It was the latter, but it was actually set as a quiz question! Anyway, without going into the specifics, would you agree that Souness has fallen out with more players than any other manager in the premiership? Yes or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6369 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Most of the abuse against Souness is based on conjecture from certain people though........ 38103[/snapback] Yes but mainly people's free opinion, not the crap these wankers in the press write and then charge for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6369 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 If it's a case of you can't recall the names then I'm surprised you didn't take closer notice seeing as it was discussing our current manager... If it's a case of numbers mentioned but no names, then frankly that's shite journalism! 38098[/snapback] It was the latter, but it was actually set as a quiz question! Anyway, without going into the specifics, would you agree that Souness has fallen out with more players than any other manager in the premiership? Yes or no? 38108[/snapback] As many as Gullit?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I don't believe he actually said that about Robert.... Robert said he'd never play for the club again whilst Souness was in charge... 38091[/snapback] I bet its being counted though, because he was never going to pick him again and was always going to kick him out at the end of the season. Either way that list i've come up with is bad enough for any manager by the end of their career, he isn't finsihed yet and theres others i couldn't name!!! 38094[/snapback] I bet it is being counted and it only serves to cement my opinion that it's shite journalism. A manager's opinion and what he says are two completely different things - journalism should be based on facts, not conjecture.... 38101[/snapback] If you're wanting football journalism based on facts you're not going to have much to read in this country! I'm not sure what your point is about the opinion/what he says difference, so not sure how to answer. All i know is if Souness publically says a player won't play for him again thats his opinion and what he's said. Anyway i think the point being made, based on some conjecture and facts is that he has fallen out with too many players for it to be coincidence and always down to the player. Even people on here who like to defend Souness will have to admit that theres been to many incidents of this for a competent man-manager at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18343 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Most of the abuse against Souness is based on conjecture from certain people though........ 38103[/snapback] The whole of football is based on subjective opinions and conjecture! However, if we want to use facts to prove Souness is a shit manager (i.e. results and statistics), then that is easy as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18343 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 If it's a case of you can't recall the names then I'm surprised you didn't take closer notice seeing as it was discussing our current manager... If it's a case of numbers mentioned but no names, then frankly that's shite journalism! 38098[/snapback] It was the latter, but it was actually set as a quiz question! Anyway, without going into the specifics, would you agree that Souness has fallen out with more players than any other manager in the premiership? Yes or no? 38108[/snapback] As many as Gullit?? 38111[/snapback] Yes or no? Gullit is probably the second worst manager for falling out with playing staff. You weren't upset when he was booted out, were you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Most of the abuse against Souness is based on conjecture from certain people though........ 38103[/snapback] The whole of football is based on subjective opinions and conjecture! However, if we want to use facts to prove Souness is a shit manager (i.e. results and statistics), then that is easy as well! 38113[/snapback] Rather facts than conjecture tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6369 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 If it's a case of you can't recall the names then I'm surprised you didn't take closer notice seeing as it was discussing our current manager... If it's a case of numbers mentioned but no names, then frankly that's shite journalism! 38098[/snapback] It was the latter, but it was actually set as a quiz question! Anyway, without going into the specifics, would you agree that Souness has fallen out with more players than any other manager in the premiership? Yes or no? 38108[/snapback] As many as Gullit?? 38111[/snapback] Yes or no? Gullit is probably the second worst manager for falling out with playing staff. You weren't upset when he was booted out, were you? 38118[/snapback] Well technically he wasn't booted out..... But I think it was for the good of the club that he left. I don't think Gullit wasn't malicious, I think he just totally mis-understood the size of the task at SJP and the influence that the fans had... As for your yes or no question, I won't answer that as I don't know enough information. It's reported in the press that he fell out with players (Todd, Dunn, Cole, Yorke) at Blackburn, but no word from Souness himself... It's reported that he fell out with Robert, even though it was the other way around.. The only player who I'm aware he's publically stated that he's fallen out with and they will never play for the club again is Craig Bellamy! Incidentally, how many players at Blackburn did Souness NOT fall out with?? Or does that not make good journalism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18343 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 (edited) The last statement is of course ludicrous. If you were talking about how many people get cancer from smoking, you wouldn't turn it on its head and say its OK, because most people don't get cancer from smoking. That would be bad journalism! I think Craig you are being deliberately evasive. Souness is a very confrontational manager, probably the most confrontational in the history of the premiership. Not many players leave his management saying good things about him, but many say bad things about him, even if he didn't personally fall out with him (e.g. Henning-Berg). Now you might not think this is a bad thing, you might think it is an irrelevance, which is fine, just say so. I personally believe it is a bad thing, because he can never go on a sustained run with resentment in his dressing room due to his bad man-management. The facts bear this out in his tendency to have poor league finishes (although this is of course complicated by his poor coaching and tactical ability). Edited September 23, 2005 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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