baggio

[Tooj 17]

I don't think you do get where I'm coming from tbh. I was trying to guess what Ashley's plan is rather than agreeing with it. I think it's doomed to failure as well but even if it succeeds I think it would see us as a sort of Charlton under Curbishley which isn't quite what I'd call 'having a bit of fun' to use Ashley's phrase.

 

You're right in the sense the only plan ever was a quick sale after a cheap buy. I don't think he ever wanted to be here more than a year or two, to balance the books and sell on at a profit.

I don't think when he bought the club that was his idea, I do think though when he saw the state of the books he wanted out as soon as possible.

[peasepud 59]

So wheres Baggy then?

[LeazesMag 0]

So wheres Baggy then?

 

its about time he changed his username and avatar like

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Where is Baggio and his £80 - £100?

Quite a range...

[Kitman 2188]

I know people talk about 'asset stripping' but that really makes no sense to me, i.e. I don't think that is what is going on? I think he's trying to get the wage bill down over the medium term and replace what he sees as deadwood. I think with Given they thought it was too good an opportunity to miss but believed they get more like £10m for a 33 year old keeper when there are 3 other keepers at the club (one a very good one and two with excellent potential). I'm not defending what Ashley is doing btw - I just think he isn't asset stripping with a view to making money that way because he'd lose a lot more if we went down than he'd gain from this policy. I think his plan is to have the club on an even keel, with a relatively low wage bill in the middle of the PL so he can then sell the club on at a profit a few years down the line (if an opportunity came along earlier he'd take / would have taken it though). I think this was always his plan as well (that's just a hunch btw). Part of this policy also includes getting young talent in on the cheap who I also suspect will be sold on at a profit if things go to plan thus helping to balance those books. The big problem is the mistakes he's made (from as early as not completing due dilligence) and his general ineptitude in being able to execute his plan at a football club.

Like I said, not saying I'm right - just my take on it with a fair bit of guesswork.

 

I tend to agree with you Alex. I think the "plan" is this:

 

1. Short term - bottom half of table. Clear out poor value and older players on high wages. This includes Viduka, Owen, Geremi, Cacapa, Smith, Duff. Balance remaining transfer outgoings with sales of players to generate offsetting transfer incomings. Occasional purchase as necessary, to be balanced by sale of existing squad member. Surpluses to be used to cover operating losses due to wage bill.

 

2. Medium term - consolidate mid table. Rebalance revenue/wage bill. Improve quality of first team squad with one off purchases of quality players. Must be young and probably foreign - therefore reasonable wage demands and good resale value. Annual transfer budget 20m (based on previous statements)

 

3. Long term - push for top 6. This to be done by bringing through top quality players from Academy with little outlay, and occasional one off purchase. Annual transfer budget up to 20m. Dennis Wise to oversee recruitment of starlets and senior players in DoF role.

 

The 'plan' has several major shortcomings imo. It assumes there is sufficient quality in the first team squad to tolerate departures and recruitment of lesser talent. It doesn't. It also ignores the prevalence of injuries and suspensions at the club. It assumes we can attract who we like and pay them lesser wages, we can't. It ignores the fact that JFK is a second rate manager. It assumes that you can replicate the success of clubs like Arsenal in bringing through major talent - the jury's out. It places huge faith in Dennis Wise and the scouting team's ability to spot major talent at the age of 16 or 17. And so on.

 

To be fair, it's a better long term plan than Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window to see who's available. But it's no guarantee of success. The biggest flaw is the failure to bring in a talented long term managerial appointment who can mould the shape of the team. This is what the advocates of Ashley's 'plan' ignore -that to replicate the Arsenal model, you need Arsene Wenger - a man with a huge contact book and a clear vision of how his teams play that is instilled at every level of the club from the Academy upwards. We've got Joe Kinnear. Fail.

[peasepud 59]

Down to the serious stuff of the bet, Im now looking for a very small local good cause. Something where £80-100 will make a difference. If anyone can direct me towards something, be it a local family raising money for a sick child or a youth football club trying to raise funds for kit Id be grateful.

[LeazesMag 0]

I know people talk about 'asset stripping' but that really makes no sense to me, i.e. I don't think that is what is going on? I think he's trying to get the wage bill down over the medium term and replace what he sees as deadwood. I think with Given they thought it was too good an opportunity to miss but believed they get more like £10m for a 33 year old keeper when there are 3 other keepers at the club (one a very good one and two with excellent potential). I'm not defending what Ashley is doing btw - I just think he isn't asset stripping with a view to making money that way because he'd lose a lot more if we went down than he'd gain from this policy. I think his plan is to have the club on an even keel, with a relatively low wage bill in the middle of the PL so he can then sell the club on at a profit a few years down the line (if an opportunity came along earlier he'd take / would have taken it though). I think this was always his plan as well (that's just a hunch btw). Part of this policy also includes getting young talent in on the cheap who I also suspect will be sold on at a profit if things go to plan thus helping to balance those books. The big problem is the mistakes he's made (from as early as not completing due dilligence) and his general ineptitude in being able to execute his plan at a football club.

Like I said, not saying I'm right - just my take on it with a fair bit of guesswork.

 

I tend to agree with you Alex. I think the "plan" is this:

 

1. Short term - bottom half of table. Clear out poor value and older players on high wages. This includes Viduka, Owen, Geremi, Cacapa, Smith, Duff. Balance remaining transfer outgoings with sales of players to generate offsetting transfer incomings. Occasional purchase as necessary, to be balanced by sale of existing squad member. Surpluses to be used to cover operating losses due to wage bill.

 

2. Medium term - consolidate mid table. Rebalance revenue/wage bill. Improve quality of first team squad with one off purchases of quality players. Must be young and probably foreign - therefore reasonable wage demands and good resale value. Annual transfer budget 20m (based on previous statements)

 

3. Long term - push for top 6. This to be done by bringing through top quality players from Academy with little outlay, and occasional one off purchase. Annual transfer budget up to 20m. Dennis Wise to oversee recruitment of starlets and senior players in DoF role.

 

The 'plan' has several major shortcomings imo. It assumes there is sufficient quality in the first team squad to tolerate departures and recruitment of lesser talent. It doesn't. It also ignores the prevalence of injuries and suspensions at the club. It assumes we can attract who we like and pay them lesser wages, we can't. It ignores the fact that JFK is a second rate manager. It assumes that you can replicate the success of clubs like Arsenal in bringing through major talent - the jury's out. It places huge faith in Dennis Wise and the scouting team's ability to spot major talent at the age of 16 or 17. And so on.

 

To be fair, it's a better long term plan than Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window to see who's available. But it's no guarantee of success. The biggest flaw is the failure to bring in a talented long term managerial appointment who can mould the shape of the team. This is what the advocates of Ashley's 'plan' ignore -that to replicate the Arsenal model, you need Arsene Wenger - a man with a huge contact book and a clear vision of how his teams play that is instilled at every level of the club from the Academy upwards. We've got Joe Kinnear. Fail.

these sort of posts, ie the ones that talk about grand "plans". are all well and good, but you let yourself down by making cheap shots at the old regime for their "lack of planning", in particular the phrase "Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window".

 

Stuff like this mate is unnecessary and also very very untrue. I could give you a whole shitload of players who were signed nowhere near the end of the transfer window, including some very good astute buys, at good prices, with the potential to get better, that improved the team.......and most of all, achieved good league positions, certainly much better than Ashley will ever achieve with his blinkered view, which is either short term or completely clueless, or a mixture of both which is what I suspect.

 

There is nothing wrong with making last minute transfer deals, nor is there anything wrong with "trophy players". Lots of clubs, some of them big clubs, have just made them, and are in a much better position just now than us. Its a pity we didn't make a few more in fact.

 

This is not a defence of anyone in particular on the old board, but it most definitely a defence of how they did things because sometimes, quite often in fact, they got it spot on.

Edited February 3, 2009 by LeazesMag

[spongebob toonpants 3648]

I know people talk about 'asset stripping' but that really makes no sense to me, i.e. I don't think that is what is going on? I think he's trying to get the wage bill down over the medium term and replace what he sees as deadwood. I think with Given they thought it was too good an opportunity to miss but believed they get more like £10m for a 33 year old keeper when there are 3 other keepers at the club (one a very good one and two with excellent potential). I'm not defending what Ashley is doing btw - I just think he isn't asset stripping with a view to making money that way because he'd lose a lot more if we went down than he'd gain from this policy. I think his plan is to have the club on an even keel, with a relatively low wage bill in the middle of the PL so he can then sell the club on at a profit a few years down the line (if an opportunity came along earlier he'd take / would have taken it though). I think this was always his plan as well (that's just a hunch btw). Part of this policy also includes getting young talent in on the cheap who I also suspect will be sold on at a profit if things go to plan thus helping to balance those books. The big problem is the mistakes he's made (from as early as not completing due dilligence) and his general ineptitude in being able to execute his plan at a football club.

Like I said, not saying I'm right - just my take on it with a fair bit of guesswork.

 

 

Ive used the term asset stripper, I admit more as a handy insult than in the true meaning of the term. I agree with you pretty much about his intentions, though I think plan A was in and out nice and quick with a tidy profit. Plan B was be a stay in the Premier, convinced (by) Wise wil provide a steady stream of cheap talent to flog on, making a tidy profit along with the tv money and shirt sales.

 

He is now realising its not that easy and is clueless as to what it needs to get the club back on track

I think the problem is the only thing he has a talent for is asset stripping. I think his only ambition is to have a club that survives in the premiership with a decent balance sheet to sell on, but I dont think he has the ability to do it

[manc-mag 1]

So wheres Baggy then?

 

[peasepud 59]

So wheres Baggy then?

 

 

FYP

[Kitman 2188]

I know people talk about 'asset stripping' but that really makes no sense to me, i.e. I don't think that is what is going on? I think he's trying to get the wage bill down over the medium term and replace what he sees as deadwood. I think with Given they thought it was too good an opportunity to miss but believed they get more like £10m for a 33 year old keeper when there are 3 other keepers at the club (one a very good one and two with excellent potential). I'm not defending what Ashley is doing btw - I just think he isn't asset stripping with a view to making money that way because he'd lose a lot more if we went down than he'd gain from this policy. I think his plan is to have the club on an even keel, with a relatively low wage bill in the middle of the PL so he can then sell the club on at a profit a few years down the line (if an opportunity came along earlier he'd take / would have taken it though). I think this was always his plan as well (that's just a hunch btw). Part of this policy also includes getting young talent in on the cheap who I also suspect will be sold on at a profit if things go to plan thus helping to balance those books. The big problem is the mistakes he's made (from as early as not completing due dilligence) and his general ineptitude in being able to execute his plan at a football club.

Like I said, not saying I'm right - just my take on it with a fair bit of guesswork.

 

I tend to agree with you Alex. I think the "plan" is this:

 

1. Short term - bottom half of table. Clear out poor value and older players on high wages. This includes Viduka, Owen, Geremi, Cacapa, Smith, Duff. Balance remaining transfer outgoings with sales of players to generate offsetting transfer incomings. Occasional purchase as necessary, to be balanced by sale of existing squad member. Surpluses to be used to cover operating losses due to wage bill.

 

2. Medium term - consolidate mid table. Rebalance revenue/wage bill. Improve quality of first team squad with one off purchases of quality players. Must be young and probably foreign - therefore reasonable wage demands and good resale value. Annual transfer budget 20m (based on previous statements)

 

3. Long term - push for top 6. This to be done by bringing through top quality players from Academy with little outlay, and occasional one off purchase. Annual transfer budget up to 20m. Dennis Wise to oversee recruitment of starlets and senior players in DoF role.

 

The 'plan' has several major shortcomings imo. It assumes there is sufficient quality in the first team squad to tolerate departures and recruitment of lesser talent. It doesn't. It also ignores the prevalence of injuries and suspensions at the club. It assumes we can attract who we like and pay them lesser wages, we can't. It ignores the fact that JFK is a second rate manager. It assumes that you can replicate the success of clubs like Arsenal in bringing through major talent - the jury's out. It places huge faith in Dennis Wise and the scouting team's ability to spot major talent at the age of 16 or 17. And so on.

 

To be fair, it's a better long term plan than Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window to see who's available. But it's no guarantee of success. The biggest flaw is the failure to bring in a talented long term managerial appointment who can mould the shape of the team. This is what the advocates of Ashley's 'plan' ignore -that to replicate the Arsenal model, you need Arsene Wenger - a man with a huge contact book and a clear vision of how his teams play that is instilled at every level of the club from the Academy upwards. We've got Joe Kinnear. Fail.

these sort of posts, ie the ones that talk about grand "plans". are all well and good, but you let yourself down by making cheap shots at the old regime for their "lack of planning", in particular the phrase "Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window".

 

Stuff like this mate is unnecessary and also very very untrue. I could give you a whole shitload of players who were signed nowhere near the end of the transfer window, including some very good astute buys, at good prices, with the potential to get better, that improved the team.......and most of all, achieved good league positions, certainly much better than Ashley will ever achieve with his blinkered view, which is either short term or completely clueless, or a mixture of both which is what I suspect.

 

There is nothing wrong with making last minute transfer deals, nor is there anything wrong with "trophy players". Lots of clubs, some of them big clubs, have just made them, and are in a much better position just now than us. Its a pity we didn't make a few more in fact.

 

This is not a defence of anyone in particular on the old board, but it most definitely a defence of how they did things because sometimes, quite often in fact, they got it spot on.

 

I understand your perspective re Freddy. The comment was meant to be more a light hearted throwaway than anything else but it's fair enough to pull me up on it. I've got no desire to debate the old board - their time is past - but they're looking like a fckn golden age right now. The main thrust of my post was really trying to guess what the Ashley 'plan' is, assuming there is one.

 

As you can probably tell, I'm highly sceptical of whether it would actually work anyway - it seems they're trying to achieve success on the cheap, which as we all know is not possible in this day and age. It's rubbish to suggest Arsenal have achieved what they have on the basis of no investment in players. Also they've significantly improved the players in their squad and I don't think we have shown any signs of that in recent history.

 

The idea that football can be approached like a standard business is really nonsensical imo; if prem history teaches us anything, it's that getting the right man as manager and backing them with sufficient funds is the beginning and end of how to be successful, everything else flows from that. In other words, far more important than any system, plan, or even recruitment of players, is the right man as manager. As we all know this is very hard to do and imo requires a great deal of thought, consultation, vision, jusdgement and most importantly luck.

 

They haven't got that right with JFK however, it's obvious. As long as he's there, it doesn't matter how good the 'plan' is, or how logical it is on paper, it's not going to work. imho of course.

[Park Life 71]

I know people talk about 'asset stripping' but that really makes no sense to me, i.e. I don't think that is what is going on? I think he's trying to get the wage bill down over the medium term and replace what he sees as deadwood. I think with Given they thought it was too good an opportunity to miss but believed they get more like £10m for a 33 year old keeper when there are 3 other keepers at the club (one a very good one and two with excellent potential). I'm not defending what Ashley is doing btw - I just think he isn't asset stripping with a view to making money that way because he'd lose a lot more if we went down than he'd gain from this policy. I think his plan is to have the club on an even keel, with a relatively low wage bill in the middle of the PL so he can then sell the club on at a profit a few years down the line (if an opportunity came along earlier he'd take / would have taken it though). I think this was always his plan as well (that's just a hunch btw). Part of this policy also includes getting young talent in on the cheap who I also suspect will be sold on at a profit if things go to plan thus helping to balance those books. The big problem is the mistakes he's made (from as early as not completing due dilligence) and his general ineptitude in being able to execute his plan at a football club.

Like I said, not saying I'm right - just my take on it with a fair bit of guesswork.

 

I tend to agree with you Alex. I think the "plan" is this:

 

1. Short term - bottom half of table. Clear out poor value and older players on high wages. This includes Viduka, Owen, Geremi, Cacapa, Smith, Duff. Balance remaining transfer outgoings with sales of players to generate offsetting transfer incomings. Occasional purchase as necessary, to be balanced by sale of existing squad member. Surpluses to be used to cover operating losses due to wage bill.

 

2. Medium term - consolidate mid table. Rebalance revenue/wage bill. Improve quality of first team squad with one off purchases of quality players. Must be young and probably foreign - therefore reasonable wage demands and good resale value. Annual transfer budget 20m (based on previous statements)

 

3. Long term - push for top 6. This to be done by bringing through top quality players from Academy with little outlay, and occasional one off purchase. Annual transfer budget up to 20m. Dennis Wise to oversee recruitment of starlets and senior players in DoF role.

 

The 'plan' has several major shortcomings imo. It assumes there is sufficient quality in the first team squad to tolerate departures and recruitment of lesser talent. It doesn't. It also ignores the prevalence of injuries and suspensions at the club. It assumes we can attract who we like and pay them lesser wages, we can't. It ignores the fact that JFK is a second rate manager. It assumes that you can replicate the success of clubs like Arsenal in bringing through major talent - the jury's out. It places huge faith in Dennis Wise and the scouting team's ability to spot major talent at the age of 16 or 17. And so on.

 

To be fair, it's a better long term plan than Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window to see who's available. But it's no guarantee of success. The biggest flaw is the failure to bring in a talented long term managerial appointment who can mould the shape of the team. This is what the advocates of Ashley's 'plan' ignore -that to replicate the Arsenal model, you need Arsene Wenger - a man with a huge contact book and a clear vision of how his teams play that is instilled at every level of the club from the Academy upwards. We've got Joe Kinnear. Fail.

these sort of posts, ie the ones that talk about grand "plans". are all well and good, but you let yourself down by making cheap shots at the old regime for their "lack of planning", in particular the phrase "Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window".

 

Stuff like this mate is unnecessary and also very very untrue. I could give you a whole shitload of players who were signed nowhere near the end of the transfer window, including some very good astute buys, at good prices, with the potential to get better, that improved the team.......and most of all, achieved good league positions, certainly much better than Ashley will ever achieve with his blinkered view, which is either short term or completely clueless, or a mixture of both which is what I suspect.

 

There is nothing wrong with making last minute transfer deals, nor is there anything wrong with "trophy players". Lots of clubs, some of them big clubs, have just made them, and are in a much better position just now than us. Its a pity we didn't make a few more in fact.

 

This is not a defence of anyone in particular on the old board, but it most definitely a defence of how they did things because sometimes, quite often in fact, they got it spot on.

 

I think Spurs are looking for a back up plan for "the plan" and perhaps a back up even to that ""plan"".

[Kitman 2188]

I know people talk about 'asset stripping' but that really makes no sense to me, i.e. I don't think that is what is going on? I think he's trying to get the wage bill down over the medium term and replace what he sees as deadwood. I think with Given they thought it was too good an opportunity to miss but believed they get more like £10m for a 33 year old keeper when there are 3 other keepers at the club (one a very good one and two with excellent potential). I'm not defending what Ashley is doing btw - I just think he isn't asset stripping with a view to making money that way because he'd lose a lot more if we went down than he'd gain from this policy. I think his plan is to have the club on an even keel, with a relatively low wage bill in the middle of the PL so he can then sell the club on at a profit a few years down the line (if an opportunity came along earlier he'd take / would have taken it though). I think this was always his plan as well (that's just a hunch btw). Part of this policy also includes getting young talent in on the cheap who I also suspect will be sold on at a profit if things go to plan thus helping to balance those books. The big problem is the mistakes he's made (from as early as not completing due dilligence) and his general ineptitude in being able to execute his plan at a football club.

Like I said, not saying I'm right - just my take on it with a fair bit of guesswork.

 

I tend to agree with you Alex. I think the "plan" is this:

 

1. Short term - bottom half of table. Clear out poor value and older players on high wages. This includes Viduka, Owen, Geremi, Cacapa, Smith, Duff. Balance remaining transfer outgoings with sales of players to generate offsetting transfer incomings. Occasional purchase as necessary, to be balanced by sale of existing squad member. Surpluses to be used to cover operating losses due to wage bill.

 

2. Medium term - consolidate mid table. Rebalance revenue/wage bill. Improve quality of first team squad with one off purchases of quality players. Must be young and probably foreign - therefore reasonable wage demands and good resale value. Annual transfer budget 20m (based on previous statements)

 

3. Long term - push for top 6. This to be done by bringing through top quality players from Academy with little outlay, and occasional one off purchase. Annual transfer budget up to 20m. Dennis Wise to oversee recruitment of starlets and senior players in DoF role.

 

The 'plan' has several major shortcomings imo. It assumes there is sufficient quality in the first team squad to tolerate departures and recruitment of lesser talent. It doesn't. It also ignores the prevalence of injuries and suspensions at the club. It assumes we can attract who we like and pay them lesser wages, we can't. It ignores the fact that JFK is a second rate manager. It assumes that you can replicate the success of clubs like Arsenal in bringing through major talent - the jury's out. It places huge faith in Dennis Wise and the scouting team's ability to spot major talent at the age of 16 or 17. And so on.

 

To be fair, it's a better long term plan than Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window to see who's available. But it's no guarantee of success. The biggest flaw is the failure to bring in a talented long term managerial appointment who can mould the shape of the team. This is what the advocates of Ashley's 'plan' ignore -that to replicate the Arsenal model, you need Arsene Wenger - a man with a huge contact book and a clear vision of how his teams play that is instilled at every level of the club from the Academy upwards. We've got Joe Kinnear. Fail.

these sort of posts, ie the ones that talk about grand "plans". are all well and good, but you let yourself down by making cheap shots at the old regime for their "lack of planning", in particular the phrase "Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window".

 

Stuff like this mate is unnecessary and also very very untrue. I could give you a whole shitload of players who were signed nowhere near the end of the transfer window, including some very good astute buys, at good prices, with the potential to get better, that improved the team.......and most of all, achieved good league positions, certainly much better than Ashley will ever achieve with his blinkered view, which is either short term or completely clueless, or a mixture of both which is what I suspect.

 

There is nothing wrong with making last minute transfer deals, nor is there anything wrong with "trophy players". Lots of clubs, some of them big clubs, have just made them, and are in a much better position just now than us. Its a pity we didn't make a few more in fact.

 

This is not a defence of anyone in particular on the old board, but it most definitely a defence of how they did things because sometimes, quite often in fact, they got it spot on.

 

I think Spurs are looking for a back up plan for "the plan" and perhaps a back up even to that ""plan"".

 

'Arry will just keep buying players without selling the ones he doesn't want. Till they end up with a first team squad of about 50 players. That's the new 'plan'. That's what 'Arry does innit.

[Park Life 71]

I know people talk about 'asset stripping' but that really makes no sense to me, i.e. I don't think that is what is going on? I think he's trying to get the wage bill down over the medium term and replace what he sees as deadwood. I think with Given they thought it was too good an opportunity to miss but believed they get more like £10m for a 33 year old keeper when there are 3 other keepers at the club (one a very good one and two with excellent potential). I'm not defending what Ashley is doing btw - I just think he isn't asset stripping with a view to making money that way because he'd lose a lot more if we went down than he'd gain from this policy. I think his plan is to have the club on an even keel, with a relatively low wage bill in the middle of the PL so he can then sell the club on at a profit a few years down the line (if an opportunity came along earlier he'd take / would have taken it though). I think this was always his plan as well (that's just a hunch btw). Part of this policy also includes getting young talent in on the cheap who I also suspect will be sold on at a profit if things go to plan thus helping to balance those books. The big problem is the mistakes he's made (from as early as not completing due dilligence) and his general ineptitude in being able to execute his plan at a football club.

Like I said, not saying I'm right - just my take on it with a fair bit of guesswork.

 

I tend to agree with you Alex. I think the "plan" is this:

 

1. Short term - bottom half of table. Clear out poor value and older players on high wages. This includes Viduka, Owen, Geremi, Cacapa, Smith, Duff. Balance remaining transfer outgoings with sales of players to generate offsetting transfer incomings. Occasional purchase as necessary, to be balanced by sale of existing squad member. Surpluses to be used to cover operating losses due to wage bill.

 

2. Medium term - consolidate mid table. Rebalance revenue/wage bill. Improve quality of first team squad with one off purchases of quality players. Must be young and probably foreign - therefore reasonable wage demands and good resale value. Annual transfer budget 20m (based on previous statements)

 

3. Long term - push for top 6. This to be done by bringing through top quality players from Academy with little outlay, and occasional one off purchase. Annual transfer budget up to 20m. Dennis Wise to oversee recruitment of starlets and senior players in DoF role.

 

The 'plan' has several major shortcomings imo. It assumes there is sufficient quality in the first team squad to tolerate departures and recruitment of lesser talent. It doesn't. It also ignores the prevalence of injuries and suspensions at the club. It assumes we can attract who we like and pay them lesser wages, we can't. It ignores the fact that JFK is a second rate manager. It assumes that you can replicate the success of clubs like Arsenal in bringing through major talent - the jury's out. It places huge faith in Dennis Wise and the scouting team's ability to spot major talent at the age of 16 or 17. And so on.

 

To be fair, it's a better long term plan than Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window to see who's available. But it's no guarantee of success. The biggest flaw is the failure to bring in a talented long term managerial appointment who can mould the shape of the team. This is what the advocates of Ashley's 'plan' ignore -that to replicate the Arsenal model, you need Arsene Wenger - a man with a huge contact book and a clear vision of how his teams play that is instilled at every level of the club from the Academy upwards. We've got Joe Kinnear. Fail.

these sort of posts, ie the ones that talk about grand "plans". are all well and good, but you let yourself down by making cheap shots at the old regime for their "lack of planning", in particular the phrase "Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window".

 

Stuff like this mate is unnecessary and also very very untrue. I could give you a whole shitload of players who were signed nowhere near the end of the transfer window, including some very good astute buys, at good prices, with the potential to get better, that improved the team.......and most of all, achieved good league positions, certainly much better than Ashley will ever achieve with his blinkered view, which is either short term or completely clueless, or a mixture of both which is what I suspect.

 

There is nothing wrong with making last minute transfer deals, nor is there anything wrong with "trophy players". Lots of clubs, some of them big clubs, have just made them, and are in a much better position just now than us. Its a pity we didn't make a few more in fact.

 

This is not a defence of anyone in particular on the old board, but it most definitely a defence of how they did things because sometimes, quite often in fact, they got it spot on.

 

I understand your perspective re Freddy. The comment was meant to be more a light hearted throwaway than anything else but it's fair enough to pull me up on it. I've got no desire to debate the old board - their time is past - but they're looking like a fckn golden age right now. The main thrust of my post was really trying to guess what the Ashley 'plan' is, assuming there is one.

 

As you can probably tell, I'm highly sceptical of whether it would actually work anyway - it seems they're trying to achieve success on the cheap, which as we all know is not possible in this day and age. It's rubbish to suggest Arsenal have achieved what they have on the basis of no investment in players. Also they've significantly improved the players in their squad and I don't think we have shown any signs of that in recent history.

 

The idea that football can be approached like a standard business is really nonsensical imo; if prem history teaches us anything, it's that getting the right man as manager and backing them with sufficient funds is the beginning and end of how to be successful, everything else flows from that. In other words, far more important than any system, plan, or even recruitment of players, is the right man as manager. As we all know this is very hard to do and imo requires a great deal of thought, consultation, vision, jusdgement and most importantly luck.

 

They haven't got that right with JFK however, it's obvious. As long as he's there, it doesn't matter how good the 'plan' is, or how logical it is on paper, it's not going to work. imho of course.

 

 

Totally agree Kitty, I think you maybe even have to throw the business rule book out the window. Where was Wenger recruited from Grampus 8?

[LeazesMag 0]

I know people talk about 'asset stripping' but that really makes no sense to me, i.e. I don't think that is what is going on? I think he's trying to get the wage bill down over the medium term and replace what he sees as deadwood. I think with Given they thought it was too good an opportunity to miss but believed they get more like £10m for a 33 year old keeper when there are 3 other keepers at the club (one a very good one and two with excellent potential). I'm not defending what Ashley is doing btw - I just think he isn't asset stripping with a view to making money that way because he'd lose a lot more if we went down than he'd gain from this policy. I think his plan is to have the club on an even keel, with a relatively low wage bill in the middle of the PL so he can then sell the club on at a profit a few years down the line (if an opportunity came along earlier he'd take / would have taken it though). I think this was always his plan as well (that's just a hunch btw). Part of this policy also includes getting young talent in on the cheap who I also suspect will be sold on at a profit if things go to plan thus helping to balance those books. The big problem is the mistakes he's made (from as early as not completing due dilligence) and his general ineptitude in being able to execute his plan at a football club.

Like I said, not saying I'm right - just my take on it with a fair bit of guesswork.

 

I tend to agree with you Alex. I think the "plan" is this:

 

1. Short term - bottom half of table. Clear out poor value and older players on high wages. This includes Viduka, Owen, Geremi, Cacapa, Smith, Duff. Balance remaining transfer outgoings with sales of players to generate offsetting transfer incomings. Occasional purchase as necessary, to be balanced by sale of existing squad member. Surpluses to be used to cover operating losses due to wage bill.

 

2. Medium term - consolidate mid table. Rebalance revenue/wage bill. Improve quality of first team squad with one off purchases of quality players. Must be young and probably foreign - therefore reasonable wage demands and good resale value. Annual transfer budget 20m (based on previous statements)

 

3. Long term - push for top 6. This to be done by bringing through top quality players from Academy with little outlay, and occasional one off purchase. Annual transfer budget up to 20m. Dennis Wise to oversee recruitment of starlets and senior players in DoF role.

 

The 'plan' has several major shortcomings imo. It assumes there is sufficient quality in the first team squad to tolerate departures and recruitment of lesser talent. It doesn't. It also ignores the prevalence of injuries and suspensions at the club. It assumes we can attract who we like and pay them lesser wages, we can't. It ignores the fact that JFK is a second rate manager. It assumes that you can replicate the success of clubs like Arsenal in bringing through major talent - the jury's out. It places huge faith in Dennis Wise and the scouting team's ability to spot major talent at the age of 16 or 17. And so on.

 

To be fair, it's a better long term plan than Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window to see who's available. But it's no guarantee of success. The biggest flaw is the failure to bring in a talented long term managerial appointment who can mould the shape of the team. This is what the advocates of Ashley's 'plan' ignore -that to replicate the Arsenal model, you need Arsene Wenger - a man with a huge contact book and a clear vision of how his teams play that is instilled at every level of the club from the Academy upwards. We've got Joe Kinnear. Fail.

these sort of posts, ie the ones that talk about grand "plans". are all well and good, but you let yourself down by making cheap shots at the old regime for their "lack of planning", in particular the phrase "Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window".

 

Stuff like this mate is unnecessary and also very very untrue. I could give you a whole shitload of players who were signed nowhere near the end of the transfer window, including some very good astute buys, at good prices, with the potential to get better, that improved the team.......and most of all, achieved good league positions, certainly much better than Ashley will ever achieve with his blinkered view, which is either short term or completely clueless, or a mixture of both which is what I suspect.

 

There is nothing wrong with making last minute transfer deals, nor is there anything wrong with "trophy players". Lots of clubs, some of them big clubs, have just made them, and are in a much better position just now than us. Its a pity we didn't make a few more in fact.

 

This is not a defence of anyone in particular on the old board, but it most definitely a defence of how they did things because sometimes, quite often in fact, they got it spot on.

 

I understand your perspective re Freddy. The comment was meant to be more a light hearted throwaway than anything else but it's fair enough to pull me up on it. I've got no desire to debate the old board - their time is past - but they're looking like a fckn golden age right now. The main thrust of my post was really trying to guess what the Ashley 'plan' is, assuming there is one.

 

As you can probably tell, I'm highly sceptical of whether it would actually work anyway - it seems they're trying to achieve success on the cheap, which as we all know is not possible in this day and age. It's rubbish to suggest Arsenal have achieved what they have on the basis of no investment in players. Also they've significantly improved the players in their squad and I don't think we have shown any signs of that in recent history.

 

The idea that football can be approached like a standard business is really nonsensical imo; if prem history teaches us anything, it's that getting the right man as manager and backing them with sufficient funds is the beginning and end of how to be successful, everything else flows from that. In other words, far more important than any system, plan, or even recruitment of players, is the right man as manager. As we all know this is very hard to do and imo requires a great deal of thought, consultation, vision, jusdgement and most importantly luck.

 

They haven't got that right with JFK however, it's obvious. As long as he's there, it doesn't matter how good the 'plan' is, or how logical it is on paper, it's not going to work. imho of course.

 

I completely agree with most of that. The only area I don't, is your criticism of Kinnear, not that I'm saying he is capable of taking us to great heights, but that any manager backed as poorly as he has been done can't really be judged fairly.

 

Unfortunately, when you have a board/owner who doesn't back their managers, this is what happens, and will probably be the pattern for as long as Ashley owns the club, whoever the manager is.

 

If we stay up this season by the skin of our teeth, next season will be just the same unless something changes, and the season after that until the inevitable happens.

[LeazesMag 0]

I know people talk about 'asset stripping' but that really makes no sense to me, i.e. I don't think that is what is going on? I think he's trying to get the wage bill down over the medium term and replace what he sees as deadwood. I think with Given they thought it was too good an opportunity to miss but believed they get more like £10m for a 33 year old keeper when there are 3 other keepers at the club (one a very good one and two with excellent potential). I'm not defending what Ashley is doing btw - I just think he isn't asset stripping with a view to making money that way because he'd lose a lot more if we went down than he'd gain from this policy. I think his plan is to have the club on an even keel, with a relatively low wage bill in the middle of the PL so he can then sell the club on at a profit a few years down the line (if an opportunity came along earlier he'd take / would have taken it though). I think this was always his plan as well (that's just a hunch btw). Part of this policy also includes getting young talent in on the cheap who I also suspect will be sold on at a profit if things go to plan thus helping to balance those books. The big problem is the mistakes he's made (from as early as not completing due dilligence) and his general ineptitude in being able to execute his plan at a football club.

Like I said, not saying I'm right - just my take on it with a fair bit of guesswork.

 

I tend to agree with you Alex. I think the "plan" is this:

 

1. Short term - bottom half of table. Clear out poor value and older players on high wages. This includes Viduka, Owen, Geremi, Cacapa, Smith, Duff. Balance remaining transfer outgoings with sales of players to generate offsetting transfer incomings. Occasional purchase as necessary, to be balanced by sale of existing squad member. Surpluses to be used to cover operating losses due to wage bill.

 

2. Medium term - consolidate mid table. Rebalance revenue/wage bill. Improve quality of first team squad with one off purchases of quality players. Must be young and probably foreign - therefore reasonable wage demands and good resale value. Annual transfer budget 20m (based on previous statements)

 

3. Long term - push for top 6. This to be done by bringing through top quality players from Academy with little outlay, and occasional one off purchase. Annual transfer budget up to 20m. Dennis Wise to oversee recruitment of starlets and senior players in DoF role.

 

The 'plan' has several major shortcomings imo. It assumes there is sufficient quality in the first team squad to tolerate departures and recruitment of lesser talent. It doesn't. It also ignores the prevalence of injuries and suspensions at the club. It assumes we can attract who we like and pay them lesser wages, we can't. It ignores the fact that JFK is a second rate manager. It assumes that you can replicate the success of clubs like Arsenal in bringing through major talent - the jury's out. It places huge faith in Dennis Wise and the scouting team's ability to spot major talent at the age of 16 or 17. And so on.

 

To be fair, it's a better long term plan than Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window to see who's available. But it's no guarantee of success. The biggest flaw is the failure to bring in a talented long term managerial appointment who can mould the shape of the team. This is what the advocates of Ashley's 'plan' ignore -that to replicate the Arsenal model, you need Arsene Wenger - a man with a huge contact book and a clear vision of how his teams play that is instilled at every level of the club from the Academy upwards. We've got Joe Kinnear. Fail.

these sort of posts, ie the ones that talk about grand "plans". are all well and good, but you let yourself down by making cheap shots at the old regime for their "lack of planning", in particular the phrase "Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window".

 

Stuff like this mate is unnecessary and also very very untrue. I could give you a whole shitload of players who were signed nowhere near the end of the transfer window, including some very good astute buys, at good prices, with the potential to get better, that improved the team.......and most of all, achieved good league positions, certainly much better than Ashley will ever achieve with his blinkered view, which is either short term or completely clueless, or a mixture of both which is what I suspect.

 

There is nothing wrong with making last minute transfer deals, nor is there anything wrong with "trophy players". Lots of clubs, some of them big clubs, have just made them, and are in a much better position just now than us. Its a pity we didn't make a few more in fact.

 

This is not a defence of anyone in particular on the old board, but it most definitely a defence of how they did things because sometimes, quite often in fact, they got it spot on.

 

I think Spurs are looking for a back up plan for "the plan" and perhaps a back up even to that ""plan"".

 

ssshhh,.........don't tell baggy

[Guest alex]

Baggy beaten

[snakehips 0]

I'm sure there's a video (think it was the promotion season video) of Sir John Haaall stating openly about "the ten year plan". Just saying, like.

[Park Life 71]

I know people talk about 'asset stripping' but that really makes no sense to me, i.e. I don't think that is what is going on? I think he's trying to get the wage bill down over the medium term and replace what he sees as deadwood. I think with Given they thought it was too good an opportunity to miss but believed they get more like £10m for a 33 year old keeper when there are 3 other keepers at the club (one a very good one and two with excellent potential). I'm not defending what Ashley is doing btw - I just think he isn't asset stripping with a view to making money that way because he'd lose a lot more if we went down than he'd gain from this policy. I think his plan is to have the club on an even keel, with a relatively low wage bill in the middle of the PL so he can then sell the club on at a profit a few years down the line (if an opportunity came along earlier he'd take / would have taken it though). I think this was always his plan as well (that's just a hunch btw). Part of this policy also includes getting young talent in on the cheap who I also suspect will be sold on at a profit if things go to plan thus helping to balance those books. The big problem is the mistakes he's made (from as early as not completing due dilligence) and his general ineptitude in being able to execute his plan at a football club.

Like I said, not saying I'm right - just my take on it with a fair bit of guesswork.

 

I tend to agree with you Alex. I think the "plan" is this:

 

1. Short term - bottom half of table. Clear out poor value and older players on high wages. This includes Viduka, Owen, Geremi, Cacapa, Smith, Duff. Balance remaining transfer outgoings with sales of players to generate offsetting transfer incomings. Occasional purchase as necessary, to be balanced by sale of existing squad member. Surpluses to be used to cover operating losses due to wage bill.

 

2. Medium term - consolidate mid table. Rebalance revenue/wage bill. Improve quality of first team squad with one off purchases of quality players. Must be young and probably foreign - therefore reasonable wage demands and good resale value. Annual transfer budget 20m (based on previous statements)

 

3. Long term - push for top 6. This to be done by bringing through top quality players from Academy with little outlay, and occasional one off purchase. Annual transfer budget up to 20m. Dennis Wise to oversee recruitment of starlets and senior players in DoF role.

 

The 'plan' has several major shortcomings imo. It assumes there is sufficient quality in the first team squad to tolerate departures and recruitment of lesser talent. It doesn't. It also ignores the prevalence of injuries and suspensions at the club. It assumes we can attract who we like and pay them lesser wages, we can't. It ignores the fact that JFK is a second rate manager. It assumes that you can replicate the success of clubs like Arsenal in bringing through major talent - the jury's out. It places huge faith in Dennis Wise and the scouting team's ability to spot major talent at the age of 16 or 17. And so on.

 

To be fair, it's a better long term plan than Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window to see who's available. But it's no guarantee of success. The biggest flaw is the failure to bring in a talented long term managerial appointment who can mould the shape of the team. This is what the advocates of Ashley's 'plan' ignore -that to replicate the Arsenal model, you need Arsene Wenger - a man with a huge contact book and a clear vision of how his teams play that is instilled at every level of the club from the Academy upwards. We've got Joe Kinnear. Fail.

these sort of posts, ie the ones that talk about grand "plans". are all well and good, but you let yourself down by making cheap shots at the old regime for their "lack of planning", in particular the phrase "Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window".

 

Stuff like this mate is unnecessary and also very very untrue. I could give you a whole shitload of players who were signed nowhere near the end of the transfer window, including some very good astute buys, at good prices, with the potential to get better, that improved the team.......and most of all, achieved good league positions, certainly much better than Ashley will ever achieve with his blinkered view, which is either short term or completely clueless, or a mixture of both which is what I suspect.

 

There is nothing wrong with making last minute transfer deals, nor is there anything wrong with "trophy players". Lots of clubs, some of them big clubs, have just made them, and are in a much better position just now than us. Its a pity we didn't make a few more in fact.

 

This is not a defence of anyone in particular on the old board, but it most definitely a defence of how they did things because sometimes, quite often in fact, they got it spot on.

 

I think Spurs are looking for a back up plan for "the plan" and perhaps a back up even to that ""plan"".

 

'Arry will just keep buying players without selling the ones he doesn't want. Till they end up with a first team squad of about 50 players. That's the new 'plan'. That's what 'Arry does innit.

 

He lahves it!! Sell everyone and then buy them all back. Sweet as a naaaaht.

[LeazesMag 0]

Baggy beaten

 

and at this precise moment he must have his head down a bog somewhere because he's disappeared.

 

Wonder what username he will come back as

[Guest Stevie]

So wheres Baggy then?

 

 

FYP

pmsl

[Guest Stevie]

The least Baggy could dee is show his face, I bet if you check the IP crack, the cunts been on this site offline every day.

[TheMoog 0]

So wheres Baggy then?

 

 

FYP

 

Lmao

[peasepud 59]

The least Baggy could dee is show his face, I bet if you check the IP crack, the cunts been on this site offline every day.

 

he has lad he posted in the january transfer sticky at the top of the forum

 

yep, give him his dues, hes agreed an amount and we'll just sort out who its payable to. To be honest I have a lot more respect for him because of this. I always thought he was on the wind up and just arguing for effect but at the end of the day hes been willing to bet on what he believed in.

[Guest Stevie]

So wheres Baggy then?

 

 

FYP

That deserves another