Dr Gloom 20232 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 fair play to what martin o'neil is doing at villa. great job and they've got a real chance of playing champions league football next year. but if you watch them play, they're not the greatest footballing side by a long shot. they're organised at the back, compact and they've got pace to burn on the counter. every time i've seen them play this season, they only have about 40 odd per cent possesion but they're winning games. we could learn a thing or two from villa. as long as we've got the likes of barton/butt/nolan in the engine room, we're not going to play much football. so i say sign a couple of pacey front men in the summer and play on the counter. we've got to be the slowest side in the league at the moment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano 0 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 They are building something special. Villa for the champions league!!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Not just saying it but I've always rated O'Neill and thought it would have been great if we'd gotten him a few years back. I think he might have come as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake 0 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 They are showing exactly what a huge transfer budget and stacks of luck can do for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bias 3 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 They are showing exactly what a huge transfer budget and stacks of luck can do for you lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 20232 Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 They are showing exactly what a huge transfer budget and stacks of luck can do for you have they been that lucky? i think playing breakway football with pacey front men could be thw way forward for the majority of midtable teams who want to break into the top 4. not many teams are going to out-pass the likes of man u or arsenal so why not go down the more direct/organised approach. pacey front men up top will scare teams bigger clubs as long as you're organised in defence and midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The messenger 0 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Personally I think you make your own luck. When going into Feb. you are in a position because you deserve to be in a position. We've had several patches of being unlucky, but people tend not to focus on that. Wigan last weekend for instance. We totally dominated, but didn't win. Or Arsenal at home where we nearly lost after having 3 in the post. We are building something special alright. Milner was fuckin superb today. MON truly is a magic man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Milner doesn't exactly fit the pace template does he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The messenger 0 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Most important thing IMO, is midfield balance. If you have to many flair players you end up worse. Milner is more a right sided midfielder then winger, and it weighs up for Young. You could always have a midfield like spurs with 5 football manager players, but it rarely works in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Milner doesn't exactly fit the pace template does he? No but he's useful in a pacy team that can break quickly because he has the legs to get up and down and support team mates even if he isn't that quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 They are showing exactly what a huge transfer budget and stacks of luck can do for you Kind of - i.e. we'll have to see. But at the same time he's doing a good job - although you'd have to hope Kinnear or even Wise would be doing an OK job spending like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinofbeans 91 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Not just saying it but I've always rated O'Neill and thought it would have been great if we'd gotten him a few years back. I think he might have come as well. We should have had him in for bobby robsons replacement. he wouldn't do it now of course. gotta say Randy Lerner is not only the best named chairman in the premierleague, but he's also the most supportive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 MON keeps it simple. Tough no nonsense defence, no overlapping and all that malarkey, two or three fast big forwards, balls into channels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 234 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Agree with a couple of points. Would have loved to have O'Neil come here after Robson. But the key that I see is balance. The Newcastle sides that have had success have had midfield balance. Say what you like about the Keegan teams being too offense-oriented, but KK at least realized the importance of trying to have some balance with Batty and to a lesser extent Rob Lee in his later appearances (though those weren't under KK).... Hamann, Speed, etc. The defensive midfielder who is not JUST a destroyer, but someone who can make a positive as well as a horizontal pass. Unfortunately Butt has turned into a half-decent destroyer whose passing is just poor. I'd hoped that Barton might provide some of that balance, but it hasn't happened. Further on the balance, though, was shown clearly when we had Nobby on the right and Robert on the left. We had success with a good wide player on each side, and whenever we broke that up (just Nobby at first once Ginola/Glass/etc were gone and we had Speed marginally on the left there if anyone, then just Robert when Nobby was sold and Dyer wasn't a wide man) we showed much less teeth. You have to be able to switch the side of the attack or drastically modify your playing style to get away from wide play, and frankly we don't have players with the speed or the ability to make the cutting needle-threading pass to pull that off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Don't think Villa have been lucky, they have just shown clubs outside the "Big 4" exactly how you do it. Sensible chairman who brings in a proven manager, back him where needed with money but no interference and lets him get on with the job. Unlike Fat Fred you don't hear Learner mouthing off in the press/media and making his club look stupid, or making farcial choices for manager like Souness and Roeder. And unlike Ashley you don't see Learner bringing in annoying little fuckitts over the managers head and forcing the man the club needs to leave and then selling players and not investing in replacements. I think Learner and O'Neil deserve a massive amount of credit and one of Chelsea/Arse are going to miss out being in the CL places this year i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Don't think Villa have been lucky, they have just shown clubs outside the "Big 4" exactly how you do it. Sensible chairman who brings in a proven manager, back him where needed with money but no interference and lets him get on with the job. Unlike Fat Fred you don't hear Learner mouthing off in the press/media and making his club look stupid, or making farcial choices for manager like Souness and Roeder. And unlike Ashley you don't see Learner bringing in annoying little fuckitts over the managers head and forcing the man the club needs to leave and then selling players and not investing in replacements. I think Learner and O'Neil deserve a massive amount of credit and one of Chelsea/Arse are going to miss out being in the CL places this year i think. Would love Arsenal and the pious Wenger missing out. Financial meltdown in the offing there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinofbeans 91 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 doubt it with their backing..... their board is a load of very very rich people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano 0 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Agree with a couple of points. Would have loved to have O'Neil come here after Robson. But the key that I see is balance. The Newcastle sides that have had success have had midfield balance. Say what you like about the Keegan teams being too offense-oriented, but KK at least realized the importance of trying to have some balance with Batty and to a lesser extent Rob Lee in his later appearances (though those weren't under KK).... Hamann, Speed, etc. The defensive midfielder who is not JUST a destroyer, but someone who can make a positive as well as a horizontal pass. Unfortunately Butt has turned into a half-decent destroyer whose passing is just poor. I'd hoped that Barton might provide some of that balance, but it hasn't happened. Further on the balance, though, was shown clearly when we had Nobby on the right and Robert on the left. We had success with a good wide player on each side, and whenever we broke that up (just Nobby at first once Ginola/Glass/etc were gone and we had Speed marginally on the left there if anyone, then just Robert when Nobby was sold and Dyer wasn't a wide man) we showed much less teeth. You have to be able to switch the side of the attack or drastically modify your playing style to get away from wide play, and frankly we don't have players with the speed or the ability to make the cutting needle-threading pass to pull that off. I agree about the balance in previous teams. But dont you think with a fully fit squad we COULD have some sort of balance? Jonas Barton Nolan Duff I mean we have genuine danger on the right with Jonas, and if Duff can build on his for against WBA i'd say we have genuine danger down the left too. With R.Taylor supporting Jonas and the right and Enrique supporting on the left i think our flanks will get stronger and stronger. In the middle you talk about balance, a player who can pull the strings and a player who can pick teams apart and break up play. Yet both need to be able to do both jobs, just both predominantly having opposing priorities to there game. Barton and Nolan are both busy box to box midfielders, Barton having a slightly more expansive range of passes but no midfield maestro. I still think that midfield is a very strong one, and i do rate Barton but if we can get our money back in the summer id quite happily let him go, ONLY if we get someone like M.Johnson or Skjelbred in before who can spray the passes. All in all we have the makings of a good side, with a little more luck, the removal of Butt from the side and a confident tactically adept manager and we still can go places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6128 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 What huge transfer budget have they got like? They have spent a fraction of what ourselves, spurs, city etc. have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13915 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 O'Neill has spent upwards of £90m to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6128 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Over a prolonged period. Its no more than a lot of teams in the league who are doing a lot worse. Most of their star performers were cheap or came through the youth team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13915 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Wrong. Most of their better players have been bought for a decent amount. £21m for Young and Milner alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonGoodwyn 1 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 90 million in about 3 years is quite a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neville Neville Neville 0 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Oh my, the relentless optimism, it burns, it burns Geordie Lad, I think even that fully fit midfield is a fairly wide of the mark (/ alan oliver) of being a good midfield. Jonas has been promising but is currently flattering to deceive. He looks good because he actually has a bit of pace and can take on a man, but the amount of times he gets into a decent crossing/shooting position, and seems to get scared is very worrying. Rather than trust his abilities, he seems to play a pointless little pass to the full back/central midfielder, and either that pass is poor and gets intercepted, or is then wasted from a less promising position than if Jonas backed himself. It may well be that by next season he backs himself, and we see that he has a killer final ball, but you wonder that if he did, why were we able to get him (btw i do actually love jonas, but am not blind to his faults) On the other side, Damien Duff has been near hopeless for the last 2 (and maybe more) seasons, and the fact that he managed to pick up a useful goal, and ACTUALLY raced passed a defender once in both the past 2 games against poor opposition, does not suddenly mean he is the Duff that used to play with Robben and Drogba (or whoever in that 433). He is still far from being a dangerous winger, and the only danger he seems to offer is when he doesn't track back and leaves the full back exposed. Duff would have to up his game considerably, and probably maintain is to the end of the season, before I saw him as being a good midfielder/winger again. Onto Nolan and Barton. Don't get me wrong I love this central midfield partnership, but thats mainly because of the absence of Nicky Butt (who I sometimes think hampers us more than starting with 10 men would!!). But to be a good central midfield partnership it would involve both players being back at their peak after Nolan became pretty ineffective for Bolton the last season and a bit, and Joey hasn't looked a decent midfielder since he thought that assaulting team mates and kids near Maccy D's would be a good way into the England team. Now its possible that a new start may get Nolan going again and becoming capable of influencing games against decent midfielders, but he's had 2 games against the mighty Sunderland and WBA, by no means enough to judge someone on. As for Joey, the only reason his (very brief) spells in the team are looked on positively is because of the shower of shit that he's come in for. He's not really bossed any games, or been a huge influence with passing, tackling, or driving from the midfield... its more that he's not Cacapa/Butt/Geremi. I think the Barton that was on the cusp of the England team is gone forever, but of course he will get better should he manage to string together a decent spell in a (maybe not us) team. Basically, thats my long winded deconstruction of why we have a "good" midfield. Its probably irrelevant as we'll never have those 4 fit. I think its one of those scenarios where whilst we would have 4 players with pretty good stats on Football Manager/Pro Evo/insert other game here, but they are actually (on current/realistic abilities) 3 players past their peak and Jonas (who I fear will not be anything but a solid yet entertaining midfielder). I think they'd be good enough to keep the team clear of relegation but not much else, but then there's a reason why they've only cost approx 20 mill (jonas 6, barton 6, nolan 4, duff 5) and they've joined a struggling team But hey, I would love it if that foursome fires us back into Europe next season, and would be incredibly happy to hold my hands up. Plus Nicky Butt isn't in that midfield, which is a massive plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6128 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Wrong. Most of their better players have been bought for a decent amount. £21m for Young and Milner alone! Which is nearly what we spent in Owen. How much were Barry and Abonglahor, probably the 2 best players in the team? Or Carew? Heskey? Laursen? Knight? Dont let the truth get in the way of a good argument though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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