Channel Four Now

[Happy Face 29]

150'000 Iraqi's died slightly nastier deaths.

So fuck, does that diminish the memory of 3000 who died in New York. Although the Iraqi deaths were obviously bad too, it's in bad taste mentioning it in this thread.

 

What were you alluding to when you said "so many questions, so few answers". Genuine question.

I was alluding to the fact no one definitively knows 100% without question why it happened. 99% of conspiracy theories can easily be dismissed, maybe this one can too, but there is a lot of aspects of the final report that were ambiguous to say the least.

 

 

I'm a bit confused how someone can not necessarily be convinced who was responsible for 9/11... but can still be comfortable with the scale of retribution taken against people categorically documented to have no involvement whatsoever.

[Guest Stevie]

It just shows to me what a weak country we've become when our own people are questioning the merits of a really big event in the context of this country never mind America, and it's not a lone view.

 

150,000 people dying in Iraq, and how many were directly at the hands of British/Yank forces? I bet at least half were the result of insurgents and sectarianism, but we opened the can of worms and we should accept some responsibility even if truthfully we went in there with the best of intentions. It's irrelevant that to be fair to this thread. Maybe we were sold a lie to go in there, but there were at least some positives to come out of it, and for me we were bigger cunts for not doing anything in Rwanda 15 years ago, than going in to Iraq. It's just certain peoples in this world have greater influence, greater significance, greater attacking force, and greater propaganda skills, and a greater will to cause mass damage. Human beings are human beings, we had the power to do something in Rwanda, the yanks certainly do, the Russians and the chinks do and we did fuck all, because no one give a fuck, people might say it's because there's nothing of value there, but we owe a greater debt to those people and the ones in Cambodia than we ever will to any fuckin muslim.

You had me, until the last 6 words

+1

Well I've rephrased it. It seems to me because of how weak a country we are, we question ourselves too much, we are too fair, the Abu Hamza thing summed the UK up. We are always the cunts - the army, the country, and your more partizan muslim are the freedom fighters who we have to walk over broken egg shells to avoid upsetting. The muslim global community have a voice, they have arms and they don't play by Queensberry rules very often, I think even if we had've stayed in Palestine for 50 years instead of just fucking off after the war, and peace prevailed there, there'd always be some fucking issue somewhere.

 

Like I say not helping those Tsutsi's is the biggest mistake rich western countries will ever have to bare. When you see footage of some of the 1.5m skulls scattered around, we had the means and did fuck all. However, to me since our cuntish ways in the 18th and 19th century, since then we've done more good for the world than anyone.

[Guest Stevie]

150'000 Iraqi's died slightly nastier deaths.

So fuck, does that diminish the memory of 3000 who died in New York. Although the Iraqi deaths were obviously bad too, it's in bad taste mentioning it in this thread.

 

What were you alluding to when you said "so many questions, so few answers". Genuine question.

I was alluding to the fact no one definitively knows 100% without question why it happened. 99% of conspiracy theories can easily be dismissed, maybe this one can too, but there is a lot of aspects of the final report that were ambiguous to say the least.

 

 

I'm a bit confused how someone can not necessarily be convinced who was responsible for 9/11... but can still be comfortable with the scale of retribution taken against people categorically documented to have no involvement whatsoever.

Are you thick? This thread should have nothing to do with Iraq or Afghanistan, I'm disgusted it has, and the fish had it spot on. It was specifically about the events of that day, but as ever the thread has descended in to a circus. However I will answer your point, even though as I said it's a huge disrespect to the dead of September 11th, when that's all the programme was about. As for retribution, maybe that was what it was about for the yanks, but I think definitely part of their overall aim was to bring democracy and at least a degree of freedom to Iraq so the people could choose who was running them. Maybe it could be that the yanks wanted democracy to use them as puppets, but it's questionable as to whether it was total retribution. Many Iraqi's seem to say life is getting better there, even though terrorism is still rife, or I presume that's the western propaganda machine in over drive, I'm sure people like you believe that's what it is.

 

From the British point of view, we were clearly sold lies, I can't be 100% sure but I think it's possible we went in there with good intentions, to help source their nuclear capability, and that's what I think, your question about feeling comfortable with our intentions in going there, if that is the truth, and I think it probably is, yes I feel comfortable with the reasons WE (the UK) went there.

 

As an aside, I've read many of your posts on related subjects, I feel worse about people like you than I do about people who preach radical muslim hate.

[Andrew 4296]

I'd hate to see you lot at a funeral

[Happy Face 29]

150'000 Iraqi's died slightly nastier deaths.

So fuck, does that diminish the memory of 3000 who died in New York. Although the Iraqi deaths were obviously bad too, it's in bad taste mentioning it in this thread.

 

What were you alluding to when you said "so many questions, so few answers". Genuine question.

I was alluding to the fact no one definitively knows 100% without question why it happened. 99% of conspiracy theories can easily be dismissed, maybe this one can too, but there is a lot of aspects of the final report that were ambiguous to say the least.

 

 

I'm a bit confused how someone can not necessarily be convinced who was responsible for 9/11... but can still be comfortable with the scale of retribution taken against people categorically documented to have no involvement whatsoever.

Are you thick? This thread should have nothing to do with Iraq or Afghanistan, I'm disgusted it has, and the fish had it spot on. It was specifically about the events of that day, but as ever the thread has descended in to a circus. However I will answer your point, even though as I said it's a huge disrespect to the dead of September 11th, when that's all the programme was about. As for retribution, maybe that was what it was about for the yanks, but I think definitely part of their overall aim was to bring democracy and at least a degree of freedom to Iraq so the people could choose who was running them. Maybe it could be that the yanks wanted democracy to use them as puppets, but it's questionable as to whether it was total retribution. Many Iraqi's seem to say life is getting better there, even though terrorism is still rife, or I presume that's the western propaganda machine in over drive, I'm sure people like you believe that's what it is.

 

From the British point of view, we were clearly sold lies, I can't be 100% sure but I think it's possible we went in there with good intentions, to help source their nuclear capability, and that's what I think, your question about feeling comfortable with our intentions in going there, if that is the truth, and I think it probably is, yes I feel comfortable with the reasons WE (the UK) went there.

 

As an aside, I've read many of your posts on related subjects, I feel worse about people like you than I do about people who preach radical muslim hate.

 

If this thread is simply a tribute to the fallen, why mention you have so many questions about why it happened? I thought that was an opening for a debate on why it happened. Why go on about "these evil bastards, the scurge of the world"?

 

It happened because (to quote Glenn Greenwald) for the US "Constant war has been the normal state of affairs. In the 64 years since the end of WWII, they have started and fought far more wars and invaded and bombed more countries than any other nation in the world -- not even counting the numerous wars fought by their clients and proxies. Those are just facts. History will have no choice but to view the U.S. -- particularly in its late imperial stages -- as a war-fighting state."

 

That's not propaganda.

 

And if you think the US like to spread democracy and freedom out of the goodness of their hearts, you should take a look at the number of democracies they've dismantled in favour of pro-US dictatorships....though I think you probably already know about that.

 

Cheers for the slight. I think you're a canny lad meself.

Edited September 7, 2009 by Happy Face

[wykikitoon 17256]

Just finished watching it. Crazy man. Ive seen a lot of the footage, but via news, i.e people waving scarves etc out of the towers and people falling,still shocking to see

 

What struck me though was the people in Times Square who had only seen certain footage and straight away "Lets bomb BIn Laden, Lets declare fucking ware" etc Its MENTAL

[bawan 0]

It just shows to me what a weak country we've become when our own people are questioning the merits of a really big event in the context of this country never mind America, and it's not a lone view.

 

150,000 people dying in Iraq, and how many were directly at the hands of British/Yank forces? I bet at least half were the result of insurgents and sectarianism, but we opened the can of worms and we should accept some responsibility even if truthfully we went in there with the best of intentions. It's irrelevant that to be fair to this thread. Maybe we were sold a lie to go in there, but there were at least some positives to come out of it, and for me we were bigger cunts for not doing anything in Rwanda 15 years ago, than going in to Iraq. It's just certain peoples in this world have greater influence, greater significance, greater attacking force, and greater propaganda skills, and a greater will to cause mass damage. Human beings are human beings, we had the power to do something in Rwanda, the yanks certainly do, the Russians and the chinks do and we did fuck all, because no one give a fuck, people might say it's because there's nothing of value there, but we owe a greater debt to those people and the ones in Cambodia than we ever will to any fuckin muslim.

You had me, until the last 6 words

+1

Well I've rephrased it. It seems to me because of how weak a country we are, we question ourselves too much, we are too fair, the Abu Hamza thing summed the UK up. We are always the cunts - the army, the country, and your more partizan muslim are the freedom fighters who we have to walk over broken egg shells to avoid upsetting. The muslim global community have a voice, they have arms and they don't play by Queensberry rules very often, I think even if we had've stayed in Palestine for 50 years instead of just fucking off after the war, and peace prevailed there, there'd always be some fucking issue somewhere.

 

Like I say not helping those Tsutsi's is the biggest mistake rich western countries will ever have to bare. When you see footage of some of the 1.5m skulls scattered around, we had the means and did fuck all. However, to me since our cuntish ways in the 18th and 19th century, since then we've done more good for the world than anyone.

You haven't though, and your just failing to see it. I don't wanna go too far into it but most countries would see the USA and UK as the two main countries responsible for the innocent killings that are still going on in "the war against terror."

Where is the good in that Stevie lad?

Edited September 7, 2009 by bawan

[Guest Stevie]

It just shows to me what a weak country we've become when our own people are questioning the merits of a really big event in the context of this country never mind America, and it's not a lone view.

 

150,000 people dying in Iraq, and how many were directly at the hands of British/Yank forces? I bet at least half were the result of insurgents and sectarianism, but we opened the can of worms and we should accept some responsibility even if truthfully we went in there with the best of intentions. It's irrelevant that to be fair to this thread. Maybe we were sold a lie to go in there, but there were at least some positives to come out of it, and for me we were bigger cunts for not doing anything in Rwanda 15 years ago, than going in to Iraq. It's just certain peoples in this world have greater influence, greater significance, greater attacking force, and greater propaganda skills, and a greater will to cause mass damage. Human beings are human beings, we had the power to do something in Rwanda, the yanks certainly do, the Russians and the chinks do and we did fuck all, because no one give a fuck, people might say it's because there's nothing of value there, but we owe a greater debt to those people and the ones in Cambodia than we ever will to any fuckin muslim.

You had me, until the last 6 words

+1

Well I've rephrased it. It seems to me because of how weak a country we are, we question ourselves too much, we are too fair, the Abu Hamza thing summed the UK up. We are always the cunts - the army, the country, and your more partizan muslim are the freedom fighters who we have to walk over broken egg shells to avoid upsetting. The muslim global community have a voice, they have arms and they don't play by Queensberry rules very often, I think even if we had've stayed in Palestine for 50 years instead of just fucking off after the war, and peace prevailed there, there'd always be some fucking issue somewhere.

 

Like I say not helping those Tsutsi's is the biggest mistake rich western countries will ever have to bare. When you see footage of some of the 1.5m skulls scattered around, we had the means and did fuck all. However, to me since our cuntish ways in the 18th and 19th century, since then we've done more good for the world than anyone.

You haven't though, and your just failing to see it. I don't wanna go too far into it but most countries would see the USA and UK as the two main countries responsible for the innocent killings that are still going on in "the war against terror."

Where is the good in that Stevie lad?

I've got nothing against you Bawan I think you come across as a canny lad, but you've lived here the majority of your life and you still don't feel affiliated to this country which welcomed you with open arms when you needed it. It's not a dig at you but that sums some of the problems in this country up to be honest, and I don't think it's necessarily your fault.

 

As for the war on terror, read up for my take on the UK's involvement, I think we went to Iraq with the best of intentions, but to let that totally over shadow the good we've done in the world is completely wrong.

 

We stood up to Hitler on our own, fought him broadly speaking alone for 2 years, when we knew for a fact we'd get battered eventually if some cunt else didn't join in. I was reading some trashy paper the other day, someone else bought it not me and it had extracts from Winston Churchill in June, July and August of 1939 saying basically, Hitler was a racist kraut cunt who could and would bring mankind to its' knees if he started his war push. In his speeches he mentions colour and creed with a strong hint of the battle being of one to do something that is right against something that is wrong, and Hitler's was to dominate the world, and ethnically cleanse mankind. You could argue that didn't become apparent till later but I don't think so. The beauty about this country is the krauts in the years leading up to the war were completely and utterly obsessed with the idea of having Britain as a firm ally. The nazi's completely and utterly respected Britain, Hitler was even fuckin shaggin some bint from Croydon believe it or not pre-war, but we said do one you total kraut cunts. Now you imagine if we'd have said yes, we'll join your force to rule the world. Russia, America, China, none of them could've stopped Britain and Germany from completely taking over the world. We had the greatest empire, they had the greatest most frenzied will and equipped force, it would've been a doddle, but we said fuck off you nobheads, start on any cunt and you'll have to have a row with us pick on some cunt your own size. No one else wanted a row they were all to scared but we stood up to them for our own interests, our own beliefs and for the good of human race.

 

So don't sit there and say this country hasn't done more than most for the good of mankind. We had a lot to lose and we were 6/1 outsiders at the time, we fought bravely with our eyes open at the size of the task on our own doing what we could, and as much as they're cunts we owe a lot to Russia, it's a shame relations are so frosty. The French declared war on them too, but the French declaring war on Germany is like Peter Crouch asking Mohammed Ali on.

 

That to me is the greatest act of war, any country has been involved with in the history of mankind. I can remember what an openly racist country this was in the 1980's when I was a little lad, so god knows how bad it was in the 30's and 40's, yet despite that we stood a lone figure against (at the time) the most dangerous fighting force mankind has ever known for the good of cultures who could've been eradicated around the world, and some almost were, I'm sure some total cunts wished they were and we both know what sort of people I'm talking about. It was like Rocky v Ivan Drago, eventually we had Pauli (the yanks) and Micky (the Russians) jumping in to the ring too and when we sorted it out, but we stood largely alone fighting them in the air and winning the Battle of Britain with fewer men and inferior planes for a long time. The yanks sat at home making the gloves for us, and charging us through the nose the total cunts (a debt that took us decades to pay off), till it suited their interests, and it wasn't for the good of mankind, but their own "retribution" and fears.

[Tom 13915]

We've always been a racist country.

 

Even just before the war there was a lot of anti-Semitic feeling in Britain and even groups of people who strongly supported fascism. Though it was wiped out in the form of German, Italian and Spanish fascism It would be a fair argument to say there's still existing fascism in the UK - albeit under a different guise, some hiding behind Nationalism others not so subtle.

[Guest Stevie]

We've always been a racist country.

 

Even just before the war there was a lot of anti-Semitic feeling in Britain and even groups of people who strongly supported fascism. Though it was wiped out in the form of German, Italian and Spanish fascism It would be a fair argument to say there's still existing fascism in the UK - albeit under a different guise, some hiding behind Nationalism others not so subtle.

Parky said something a few weeks ago, something along the lines of we're the least racist country in Europe, he's well placed to make such a remark too and I agree with him 100%. Racism against blacks exists here and there, but largely it's cool and people who are outright racist against blacks are now more or less laughed as being total wanks by almost everybody. In the 70s and 80s and some of the 90s the far rights anger was directed at blacks and jews, then it was just jews and it's now muslims, where laughably jews are made to feel welcome within the far right. Overall though this country was racist, it's comfortably the least racist in Europe. Imagine the Danish thing happening here.

[Tom 13915]

I would probably agree there - take the Spanish racism towards black people - in pubic at a Grand Prix! Again they showed themselves up at the football on more than one occasion. The French are quite racist, although they have no right to be. As they will be quite harsh to African Immigrants in Marseilles but as soon as the lads a good football they throw the blue shirt on him.

 

However just because we are probably the least racist it doesn't excuse it. At the end of the day our civil liberties are being stripped away with political correctness (political correctness is tyranny with manners apparently) and the like but in battling against it people must remain decent and moral.

[Happy Face 29]

It's nice that we have a view of ourselves as a more enlightened, less racist society than any other European countries (maybe a little ethnocentric in itself) when the facts say something different.

 

Of 50 countries in Europe, the UK is one of only 9 to have seen a rise in the vote for openly far right MEPs in the European parliament.

 

With 2 far right MEPs elected we give racists more representation than the majority of member countries.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Happy Face

[Guest Stevie]

It's nice that we have a view of ourselves as a more enlightened, less racist society than any other European countries (maybe a little ethnocentric in itself) when the facts say something different.

 

Of 50 countries in Europe, the UK is one of only 9 to have seen a rise in the vote for openly far right MEPs in the European parliament.

With 2 far right MEPs elected we give racists more representation than the majority of member countries.

If Wigan won the Premiership the next three seasons running, their league title haul would rise percentage wise faster than any club in England.

 

Staggering ignorance which is beyond comprehension.

 

I'm sorry like but that is just ignorant beyond fucking belief. Jean Marie Le Pen's, Front National, almost won the fucking french presedential election in 2002, that's the equivolent of the NF, getting more votes than the tories and Lib Dems and running Labour close.

 

In Holland their far right party again came second in their elections.

 

In this country there is a total outcry if the BNP, who aren't as extreme as "Front National" for instance get 3% of the vote, and the only places they have any chance of doing anything are shitholes like Burnley and Wigan, whereas an attractive thriving developed country like Holland and France gives the far right over a third of the vote.

 

You don't need to show ignorance, just read things without spouting baseless shite. You don't even need facts and figures to compare racism in this country favourably with places like Spain and Italy, where in many places it's almost tolerated that racist abuse will occur in stadiums, the only time there's an outcry is when there's international focus, FIFA can't turn a blind eye, and their authorities have to say something to save face. Fuck sake this a racist country. The far right do everything they can to contest anti facism rallies in Birmingham and London and the most they can drum up is two fucking hundred. Incredible, incredible post by Happy Face.

[wykikitoon 17256]

Ive not read all the arguments on here like but can we be a little more respectful to those who lost their lives in the towers and the planes etc etc on 9/11?

[Guest Stevie]

Ive not read all the arguments on here like but can we be a little more respectful to those who lost their lives in the towers and the planes etc etc on 9/11?

The answer is no while you have apologists in abundance like we have on here.

[Happy Face 29]

I've got nothing against you Bawan I think you come across as a canny lad, but you've lived here the majority of your life and you still don't feel affiliated to this country which welcomed you with open arms when you needed it. It's not a dig at you but that sums some of the problems in this country up to be honest, and I don't think it's necessarily your fault.

 

As for the war on terror, read up for my take on the UK's involvement, I think we went to Iraq with the best of intentions, but to let that totally over shadow the good we've done in the world is completely wrong.

 

We stood up to Hitler on our own, fought him broadly speaking alone for 2 years, when we knew for a fact we'd get battered eventually if some cunt else didn't join in. I was reading some trashy paper the other day, someone else bought it not me and it had extracts from Winston Churchill in June, July and August of 1939 saying basically, Hitler was a racist kraut cunt who could and would bring mankind to its' knees if he started his war push. In his speeches he mentions colour and creed with a strong hint of the battle being of one to do something that is right against something that is wrong, and Hitler's was to dominate the world, and ethnically cleanse mankind. You could argue that didn't become apparent till later but I don't think so. The beauty about this country is the krauts in the years leading up to the war were completely and utterly obsessed with the idea of having Britain as a firm ally. The nazi's completely and utterly respected Britain, Hitler was even fuckin shaggin some bint from Croydon believe it or not pre-war, but we said do one you total kraut cunts. Now you imagine if we'd have said yes, we'll join your force to rule the world. Russia, America, China, none of them could've stopped Britain and Germany from completely taking over the world. We had the greatest empire, they had the greatest most frenzied will and equipped force, it would've been a doddle, but we said fuck off you nobheads, start on any cunt and you'll have to have a row with us pick on some cunt your own size. No one else wanted a row they were all to scared but we stood up to them for our own interests, our own beliefs and for the good of human race.

 

So don't sit there and say this country hasn't done more than most for the good of mankind. We had a lot to lose and we were 6/1 outsiders at the time, we fought bravely with our eyes open at the size of the task on our own doing what we could, and as much as they're cunts we owe a lot to Russia, it's a shame relations are so frosty. The French declared war on them too, but the French declaring war on Germany is like Peter Crouch asking Mohammed Ali on.

 

That to me is the greatest act of war, any country has been involved with in the history of mankind. I can remember what an openly racist country this was in the 1980's when I was a little lad, so god knows how bad it was in the 30's and 40's, yet despite that we stood a lone figure against (at the time) the most dangerous fighting force mankind has ever known for the good of cultures who could've been eradicated around the world, and some almost were, I'm sure some total cunts wished they were and we both know what sort of people I'm talking about. It was like Rocky v Ivan Drago, eventually we had Pauli (the yanks) and Micky (the Russians) jumping in to the ring too and when we sorted it out, but we stood largely alone fighting them in the air and winning the Battle of Britain with fewer men and inferior planes for a long time. The yanks sat at home making the gloves for us, and charging us through the nose the total cunts (a debt that took us decades to pay off), till it suited their interests, and it wasn't for the good of mankind, but their own "retribution" and fears.

 

I'm every bit as proud of our forefathers defending the sovereignty of other nations, and our own, as you are. Our finest hour. Germany, an occupying force, and their allies having invaded Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Poland, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Romania needed someone to step up and we (amongst others) did so heroically.

 

Don't you think it tarnishes the memory of those who died for freedom and democracy to be an ally to the US now. Themselves an occupying force in Iraq and Afghanistan and primary support for Israel's occupation of Palestine.

[Renton 18222]

Stevie's posts in this thread could be taken straight from the Football factory and related books.

 

Anyway, I watched this last night, out of morbid fascination I guess. Parts of it was like watching Cloverfield, particularly the bit where the second plane hit as those girls watched in the flat. You can see where Reeves got his inspiration from.

 

One other observation, someone said earlier it was a cowardly attack. I couldn't think of a less apt adjective. They may be murdering subhuman scum, but to deliberately fly a plane into a tower knowing it means certain death is not cowardly. Fighting the taliban on foot is also not cowardly. But to fire missiles 5 mile from your target while you're safely tucked up in the cockpit of a stealth bomber, arguably that's cowardly.

[Meenzer 14166]

Of 50 countries in Europe, the UK is one of only 9 to have seen a rise in the vote for openly far right MEPs in the European parliament.

Pedantry hat on again, but wouldn't it be a bit difficult for the 23 non-EU members to vote for more far-right MEPs?

[Guest Stevie]

Stevie's posts in this thread could be taken straight from the Football factory and related books.

 

Anyway, I watched this last night, out of morbid fascination I guess. Parts of it was like watching Cloverfield, particularly the bit where the second plane hit as those girls watched in the flat. You can see where Reeves got his inspiration from.

 

One other observation, someone said earlier it was a cowardly attack. I couldn't think of a less apt adjective. They may be murdering subhuman scum, but to deliberately fly a plane into a tower knowing it means certain death is not cowardly. Fighting the taliban on foot is also not cowardly. But to fire missiles 5 mile from your target while you're safely tucked up in the cockpit of a stealth bomber, arguably that's cowardly.

Cowardly post, but nothing less than I would expect from a patronising wank like you.

[Happy Face 29]

Of 50 countries in Europe, the UK is one of only 9 to have seen a rise in the vote for openly far right MEPs in the European parliament.

Pedantry hat on again, but wouldn't it be a bit difficult for the 23 non-EU members to vote for more far-right MEPs?

 

Valid point.

 

I hope Stevie doesn't take being in the top 30% of racist EU countries rather than the top 20% as any kind of vindication.

[Happy Face 29]

It's nice that we have a view of ourselves as a more enlightened, less racist society than any other European countries (maybe a little ethnocentric in itself) when the facts say something different.

 

Of 50 countries in Europe, the UK is one of only 9 to have seen a rise in the vote for openly far right MEPs in the European parliament.

With 2 far right MEPs elected we give racists more representation than the majority of member countries.

If Wigan won the Premiership the next three seasons running, their league title haul would rise percentage wise faster than any club in England.

 

Staggering ignorance which is beyond comprehension.

 

I'm sorry like but that is just ignorant beyond fucking belief. Jean Marie Le Pen's, Front National, almost won the fucking french presedential election in 2002, that's the equivolent of the NF, getting more votes than the tories and Lib Dems and running Labour close.

 

In Holland their far right party again came second in their elections.

 

In this country there is a total outcry if the BNP, who aren't as extreme as "Front National" for instance get 3% of the vote, and the only places they have any chance of doing anything are shitholes like Burnley and Wigan, whereas an attractive thriving developed country like Holland and France gives the far right over a third of the vote.

 

You don't need to show ignorance, just read things without spouting baseless shite. You don't even need facts and figures to compare racism in this country favourably with places like Spain and Italy, where in many places it's almost tolerated that racist abuse will occur in stadiums, the only time there's an outcry is when there's international focus, FIFA can't turn a blind eye, and their authorities have to say something to save face. Fuck sake this a racist country. The far right do everything they can to contest anti facism rallies in Birmingham and London and the most they can drum up is two fucking hundred. Incredible, incredible post by Happy Face.

 

I never said we're the MOST racist, so you will find countries where elections bring about worse results, or where racism among football fans is less comprehensively policed.

 

You're using anecdotal evidence to argue against facts (now corrected by Meenzer ) and claiming I'M the ignorant one. That's incredible.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Happy Face

[Renton 18222]

Stevie's posts in this thread could be taken straight from the Football factory and related books.

 

Anyway, I watched this last night, out of morbid fascination I guess. Parts of it was like watching Cloverfield, particularly the bit where the second plane hit as those girls watched in the flat. You can see where Reeves got his inspiration from.

 

One other observation, someone said earlier it was a cowardly attack. I couldn't think of a less apt adjective. They may be murdering subhuman scum, but to deliberately fly a plane into a tower knowing it means certain death is not cowardly. Fighting the taliban on foot is also not cowardly. But to fire missiles 5 mile from your target while you're safely tucked up in the cockpit of a stealth bomber, arguably that's cowardly.

Cowardly post, but nothing less than I would expect from a patronising wank like you.

 

Well that's what it reminded me of when reading them, wasn't meant to be patronising or an insult either, merely an observation (relating more to style than content I might add). But whatever, you've reminded me why you're not worth talking to, with your incessant need for petty insults at every perceived slight.

[Guest Stevie]

I've got nothing against you Bawan I think you come across as a canny lad, but you've lived here the majority of your life and you still don't feel affiliated to this country which welcomed you with open arms when you needed it. It's not a dig at you but that sums some of the problems in this country up to be honest, and I don't think it's necessarily your fault.

 

As for the war on terror, read up for my take on the UK's involvement, I think we went to Iraq with the best of intentions, but to let that totally over shadow the good we've done in the world is completely wrong.

 

We stood up to Hitler on our own, fought him broadly speaking alone for 2 years, when we knew for a fact we'd get battered eventually if some cunt else didn't join in. I was reading some trashy paper the other day, someone else bought it not me and it had extracts from Winston Churchill in June, July and August of 1939 saying basically, Hitler was a racist kraut cunt who could and would bring mankind to its' knees if he started his war push. In his speeches he mentions colour and creed with a strong hint of the battle being of one to do something that is right against something that is wrong, and Hitler's was to dominate the world, and ethnically cleanse mankind. You could argue that didn't become apparent till later but I don't think so. The beauty about this country is the krauts in the years leading up to the war were completely and utterly obsessed with the idea of having Britain as a firm ally. The nazi's completely and utterly respected Britain, Hitler was even fuckin shaggin some bint from Croydon believe it or not pre-war, but we said do one you total kraut cunts. Now you imagine if we'd have said yes, we'll join your force to rule the world. Russia, America, China, none of them could've stopped Britain and Germany from completely taking over the world. We had the greatest empire, they had the greatest most frenzied will and equipped force, it would've been a doddle, but we said fuck off you nobheads, start on any cunt and you'll have to have a row with us pick on some cunt your own size. No one else wanted a row they were all to scared but we stood up to them for our own interests, our own beliefs and for the good of human race.

 

So don't sit there and say this country hasn't done more than most for the good of mankind. We had a lot to lose and we were 6/1 outsiders at the time, we fought bravely with our eyes open at the size of the task on our own doing what we could, and as much as they're cunts we owe a lot to Russia, it's a shame relations are so frosty. The French declared war on them too, but the French declaring war on Germany is like Peter Crouch asking Mohammed Ali on.

 

That to me is the greatest act of war, any country has been involved with in the history of mankind. I can remember what an openly racist country this was in the 1980's when I was a little lad, so god knows how bad it was in the 30's and 40's, yet despite that we stood a lone figure against (at the time) the most dangerous fighting force mankind has ever known for the good of cultures who could've been eradicated around the world, and some almost were, I'm sure some total cunts wished they were and we both know what sort of people I'm talking about. It was like Rocky v Ivan Drago, eventually we had Pauli (the yanks) and Micky (the Russians) jumping in to the ring too and when we sorted it out, but we stood largely alone fighting them in the air and winning the Battle of Britain with fewer men and inferior planes for a long time. The yanks sat at home making the gloves for us, and charging us through the nose the total cunts (a debt that took us decades to pay off), till it suited their interests, and it wasn't for the good of mankind, but their own "retribution" and fears.

 

I'm every bit as proud of our forefathers defending the sovereignty of other nations, and our own, as you are. Our finest hour. Germany, an occupying force, and their allies having invaded Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Poland, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Romania needed someone to step up and we (amongst others) did so heroically.

Don't you think it tarnishes the memory of those who died for freedom and democracy to be an ally to the US now. Themselves an occupying force in Iraq and Afghanistan and primary support for Israel's occupation of Palestine.

Hey I hate the fact we're an ally of the US, I really do, last week they showed what they thought of us when the CIA and FBI debated whether or not to share sensitive terrorist issues, all because we made a decision without consulting them on the Libya bomber. It's a sad state of affairs that we're too fragile to start an all out diplomatic war with them. They play us like puppets, and there's fuck all we can do about it. I understand why they're going to find it hard to leave Afghanistan but it's a war we can't win, the Iraq issue, the big picture is we shouldn't have went, but the worst crime was naievty, and not many countries condemned the recent Israeli assault on Palestine more vehemently than Britain.

[Guest Stevie]

Stevie's posts in this thread could be taken straight from the Football factory and related books.

 

Anyway, I watched this last night, out of morbid fascination I guess. Parts of it was like watching Cloverfield, particularly the bit where the second plane hit as those girls watched in the flat. You can see where Reeves got his inspiration from.

 

One other observation, someone said earlier it was a cowardly attack. I couldn't think of a less apt adjective. They may be murdering subhuman scum, but to deliberately fly a plane into a tower knowing it means certain death is not cowardly. Fighting the taliban on foot is also not cowardly. But to fire missiles 5 mile from your target while you're safely tucked up in the cockpit of a stealth bomber, arguably that's cowardly.

Cowardly post, but nothing less than I would expect from a patronising wank like you.

 

Well that's what it reminded me of when reading them, wasn't meant to be patronising or an insult either, merely an observation (relating more to style than content I might add). But whatever, you've reminded me why you're not worth talking to, with your incessant need for petty insults at every perceived slight.

It would incredibly difficult for anyone to read your post without drawing the conclusion that it was a patronising all out attack on my views, and an attack which challenged none of them.

[Happy Face 29]

and not many countries condemned the recent Israeli assault on Palestine more vehemently than Britain.

 

Or have sold them more weapons to facillitate the attack.

 

Mike Ashley says one thing and does another too. He's a cunt for it.