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ChezGiven

Newcastle v Blackburn 5th May 2007

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35 members have voted

  1. 1. Have we gone backwards since this day?

    • Yes
      11
    • No
      19
    • Dont know
      2


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So Glenn at last got his wish and wrote the name of Michael Owen on a teamsheet at SJP.

 

Unfortunately for him, the other names that he penned once again left him quite literally defenceless in the eyes of both Freddy and the fans.

 

Our immediate post-match inquest ended with the message that Roeder had "nowhere to go".

 

That was then rubber-stamped at a hastily-convened meeting on Sunday at which his 15 month tenure came to an end with immediate effect, not even allowed a valedictory farewell at his old Watford stamping ground.

 

While the post-match "protest" outside the Milburn Reception was trotted out as proof that the natives were agitating for change, the real story was to be found the gaps in the stands as another below-par home campaign petered out.

 

Quite simply the fans voted with their feet, registering a motion of "no confidence" in the administration.

 

Not for the first time though, that was interpreted by the powers that be as "sack the manager".

 

If nothing else, Shepherd has at least given whoever becomes our sixth manager in the decade since Keegan abdicated slightly more of a run-up to their first campaign in charge.

 

The comparative luxury of a pre-season and a full transfer window weren't accessible to messrs Dalgish, Gullit, Robson, Souness or Roeder - none of whom began a season at the helm.

There again, that didn't do Roeder much good second time round....

 

Whoever arrives though faces the same problems that have stumped and ultimately defeated his predecessors.

 

Our current administration has such little credibility that possible new managers (and players) are eyed with mistrust and almost considered tarnished by their very willingness to sign up for this madhouse.

 

The Turkey/Xmas scenario precludes the current custodians of the club from dismantling it willingly - and surely that extends to the level of decision and policy-making power Roeder's successor will be allowed.

 

Be it training methods, player and staff recruitment, pre-season arrangements or whatever, it seems unlikely that they're prepared to give somebody the freedom to mould the club from end to end.

 

After all, we retreated from that very scenario when Martin O'Neill rode into town with a notebook full of initiatives. Someone should have told him we don't do planning round here - just damage limitation and crisis management....

 

So if all we're doing is replacing one figurehead/patsy with another one, is that anything more than riding on that first wave of new manager positivism (eg Souness registering seven wins and two draws and 22 goals scored in his first nine games)?

 

Back to the visit of Rovers though (who may have gained no fans post-Souness but seem to be a bit happier and less strife-torn under Hughes) and for us, a clear case of new strips, old shite.

 

It's a typically Newcastle situation to reflect that the seeds of our demise and Glenn's downfall were sown by the act of qualifying for the Intertoto Cup - the very achievement that made United battle the authorities to convert his caretaker stewardship into a more permanent arrangement.

 

Dirty mackem that he is (and richly deserving of a toe-ending for his unbecoming recent post-match gloating) Reading assistant Kevin Dillon hit the nail on the head when he spoke about gaining nothing from beating teams of waiters in July.

 

Struggling past successive no-mark XIs, we then embarked on a goal splurge against the most competent side we faced - only for AZ to suss us out by the time we got back to their place.

 

Those fourteen fixtures though took their toll on us domestically, three of our six signings unable to appear in Europe (Rossi, Onyewu, Bernard) and various injuries reducing our limited personnel options still further.

 

And the post-Alkmaar throwing in of the towel by numerous players looks more and more as if a decision was made by some in the dressing room that the Intertoto wasn't going to be on the agenda again - we're struggling to explain our loss of form any other way....

 

Given all that, Roeder deserves credit for keeping us up this season - before "senior players" informed Freddy that he'd lost the dressing room with one game to go.

 

Taylor has shown some encouraging improvements and welcome signs of maturity that can reasonably be attributed to Roeder or Pearson passing on their defensive wiles.

 

None of the four other outfielders who did it for us were here last season though - new boys Sibierski and Martins being joined by Butt and Milner returning from exile in the West Midlands.

 

Twelve months on we've gone backwards from the side who carved the mackems up on their own ground.

 

Shearer retired, Chopra sold, Luque not sold, N'Zogbia in bits, Shola and Owen out of the equation, Duff and Dyer a laughing stock. It's been so long since we played well and won that it's difficult to remember what that's like.

 

That 4-1 reverse at our hands is now being spoken of on wearyside in similar terms to the pivotal 1-2 monsoon defeat that saw off Gullit and strengthened Shearer's status at SJP.

 

That's perhaps an over-egging of the pudding(s), but it's undeniable that the return of the cavemen from down the road to the big league is focusing minds somewhat.

 

A poor start to next season in comparison to them would certainly have seen far more spectacular protests in Toon, while it's an easy line to compare and contrast the off-field changes on wearside with the Tyneside Kremlin.

 

However, talk that the Roeder "resignation" news was leaked to try and keep the championship -winning red and whites off the local back pages is a bit OTT.

 

With no chance of relegation or European qualification, we had an opportunity today to end the home programme on a high note, providing some crumbs of comfort in the form of a victory and a half-way committed display.

 

That the team singularly failed to do so shows the obvious contempt that the players hold their manager and their public. Now the former has gone, but it's routinely expected that the latter remain loyal - that's loyal to those in power.

 

The sight of people hurrying for the exits clad in new forty quid toon shirts or waiting around to abuse their own side is both savagely amusing and embarrassing.

 

The lack of anger from the stands though is perhaps the most telling aspect of this miserable finale - resignation is the word.

 

It remains to be seen how many season holders remain in a rotten fettle when the renewals come through the door - certainly nobody will have been inspired to invest a brass farthing in the club after this display.

 

So for the second year running we bid farewell to a loyal servant of the club.

 

2006 saw Shearer make his final bow, while Glenn Roeder now departs in vastly reduced circumstances - no testimonial, but with some residual goodwill for his onfield service.

 

In retrospect, a man who never wanted the job shouldn't have had the job.

 

Whoever comes in now has to contend with the unique pressures of managing here:

 

The mindset of the fans, the power of the local media, the structure of the club, the burden of history, the legacy of previous managers and that ability to repeatedly f*ck it up that some call luck or a curse.

 

Without doing more than changing the name on the office door, it doesn't really matter who takes it - the outcome will be the same.

 

http://www.nufc.com/html/2006-07html/2007-...lackburn-h.html

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Absolutely we've went backwards. If we'd have come 6th or 7th like we would've done if we didn't have the worst injury crisis in the clubs history the FFS would still be there, and that artcile above would be laughable. He had no luck at all Roeder worse than I can ever remember for injuries. We had good players, they were just arseholes who needed someone strong (and good) to sort them oot. I'm chuffed to bit with the start we've had but we still have him in charge and I say again from FMA's in put it's pure chance it's going all right. As soon as we lose 4-0 and Best looks like he used to play like this won't even be an argument.

 

The fact Ashley is in charge means we've gone backwards, we can no longer dream, we're in a like it or lump it position. We're a very much smaller club now than we were under FFS, supports less we had 70000 people wanting to go to the match now we have 44000 who want to go regular because the board keep telling us we're not as big as we think we are. Fucking pathetic. Even the much smaller Newcastle are twice as big as Villa and Everton, and the LEAST we should expect is 7th. Very much worse position than 2007.

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Of course we have gone backwards - we are one of the also rans now, and we have lost 25,000 fans in the process - the potential of the club will never be realised under Ashley - a massive lost opportunity from an owner who has no ambition whatsoever.

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I was in attendance at that match.

 

If I recall correctly, after the match came the most half-hearted 'lap of honour' you will ever see. Only it wasn't even a lap, the players just stood around and waved at us. Most of the fans had left and those that remained just clapped unenthusiastically. A lot of fed up faces who had little idea where the club would head next.

Edited by Tecato

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I was in attendance at that match.

 

If I recall correctly, after the match came the most half-hearted 'lap of honour' you will ever see.

Do you want them pulling their shorts down and having a wank after an abject 2-0 defeat to Blackburn after a horricif run in. FFS

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I dont think putting it down to luck for the 3rd season in a row is credible Stevie but thats just my opinion obviously. If we lose 4-0 against City and Best is anonymous thats all the proof you need? Seriously? I was living abroad by then but at that match and we were shite that day. Mainly remembered for idiots throwing their empty season ticket books on to the pitch in disgust. ;)

 

The club has lost support off the pitch but thats not the whole picture. I understand very much your sentiments regarding Villa and Everton but there is no 'least we should expect' because the game is more about money now than ever and all sorts of clubs are connected to financial power that eradicates traditional differences in strength. Stoke are one of the most ambitious spenders as they are connected to Bet365, Al Fayed has hoyed £180m into Fulham. If you base what you expect on traditional measures of fan loyalty, size and even past performance then you are right, we should expect at least 7th. I dont think we are aiming too far away from that at the minute tbf. On that last point, we didnt finish 7th in 2007 and Shepherd would have stuck with Allardyce the following season so for me, all your highlighting is that we were't achieving it back then and didnt look likely to the next season.

Edited by ChezGiven

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I was in attendance at that match.

 

If I recall correctly, after the match came the most half-hearted 'lap of honour' you will ever see.

Do you want them pulling their shorts down and having a wank after an abject 2-0 defeat to Blackburn after a horricif run in. FFS

 

Eh? I wasn't complaining, just an observation.

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I dont think putting it down to luck for the 3rd season in a row is credible Stevie but thats just my opinion obviously. If we lose 4-0 against City and Best is anonymous thats all the proof you need? Seriously? I was living abroad by then but at that match and we were shite that day. Mainly remembered for idiots throwing their empty season ticket books on to the pitch in disgust. ;)

 

The club has lost support off the pitch but thats not the whole picture. I understand very much your sentiments regarding Villa and Everton but there is no 'least we should expect' because the game is more about money now than ever and all sorts of clubs are connected to financial power that eradicates traditional differences in strength. Stoke are one of the most ambitious spenders as they are connected to Bet365, Al Fayed has hoyed £180m into Fulham. If you base what you expect on traditional measures of fan loyalty, size and even past performance then you are right, we should expect at least 7th. I dont think we are aiming too far away from that at the minute tbf. On that last point, we didnt finish 7th in 2007 and Shepherd would have stuck with Allardyce the following season so for me, all your highlighting is that we were't achieving it back then and didnt look likely to the next season.

From losing 2-1 at Scunthorpe with 3 defeats in 9 championship games a situation of Ashley's making, I think that was probably the lowest modern NUFC could go. Its like a deep cut at its worst nothing can stop the situation improving. If DEADMAN was the owner and Kevin was Llambias, there's no way on earth that the club would've failed to improve.

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I dont think putting it down to luck for the 3rd season in a row is credible Stevie but thats just my opinion obviously. If we lose 4-0 against City and Best is anonymous thats all the proof you need? Seriously? I was living abroad by then but at that match and we were shite that day. Mainly remembered for idiots throwing their empty season ticket books on to the pitch in disgust. ;)

 

The club has lost support off the pitch but thats not the whole picture. I understand very much your sentiments regarding Villa and Everton but there is no 'least we should expect' because the game is more about money now than ever and all sorts of clubs are connected to financial power that eradicates traditional differences in strength. Stoke are one of the most ambitious spenders as they are connected to Bet365, Al Fayed has hoyed £180m into Fulham. If you base what you expect on traditional measures of fan loyalty, size and even past performance then you are right, we should expect at least 7th. I dont think we are aiming too far away from that at the minute tbf. On that last point, we didnt finish 7th in 2007 and Shepherd would have stuck with Allardyce the following season so for me, all your highlighting is that we were't achieving it back then and didnt look likely to the next season.

From losing 2-1 at Scunthorpe with 3 defeats in 9 championship games a situation of Ashley's making, I think that was probably the lowest modern NUFC could go. Its like a deep cut at its worst nothing can stop the situation improving. If DEADMAN was the owner and Kevin was Llambias, there's no way on earth that the club would've failed to improve.

Not sure i follow, we went backwards from 2007 to losing 3 in 9 in the championship but this question is not about the pathway we've took. Its about point A (then) and point B (now).

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Of course we have gone backwards - we are one of the also rans now, and we have lost 25,000 fans in the process - the potential of the club will never be realised under Ashley - a massive lost opportunity from an owner who has no ambition whatsoever.

What do you mean by lost? As in will never ever come back? Some will come back if he sells it, some will come back if we do better.

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If we sell yes. Do better? Well - I think we have been unbelieveably lucky so far - and so has Ashley. Who knew Best woke up one morning and decided to play fotball ;)

 

Also - the inevitable injury bonanza is gonna ride us like a mare, our squad depth is shocking really..

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I dont think putting it down to luck for the 3rd season in a row is credible Stevie but thats just my opinion obviously. If we lose 4-0 against City and Best is anonymous thats all the proof you need? Seriously? I was living abroad by then but at that match and we were shite that day. Mainly remembered for idiots throwing their empty season ticket books on to the pitch in disgust. ;)

 

The club has lost support off the pitch but thats not the whole picture. I understand very much your sentiments regarding Villa and Everton but there is no 'least we should expect' because the game is more about money now than ever and all sorts of clubs are connected to financial power that eradicates traditional differences in strength. Stoke are one of the most ambitious spenders as they are connected to Bet365, Al Fayed has hoyed £180m into Fulham. If you base what you expect on traditional measures of fan loyalty, size and even past performance then you are right, we should expect at least 7th. I dont think we are aiming too far away from that at the minute tbf. On that last point, we didnt finish 7th in 2007 and Shepherd would have stuck with Allardyce the following season so for me, all your highlighting is that we were't achieving it back then and didnt look likely to the next season.

From losing 2-1 at Scunthorpe with 3 defeats in 9 championship games a situation of Ashley's making, I think that was probably the lowest modern NUFC could go. Its like a deep cut at its worst nothing can stop the situation improving. If DEADMAN was the owner and Kevin was Llambias, there's no way on earth that the club would've failed to improve.

Not sure i follow, we went backwards from 2007 to losing 3 in 9 in the championship but this question is not about the pathway we've took. Its about point A (then) and point B (now).

As a football club the answer is emphatically no. Are the players the playing squad we have better than they were then? No. Are they better kids definitely yes, which is having an impact on the team spirit hence why they're gelling better. Milner and N'Zogbia would walk in wor team so would Viduka and Owen then if they were happy, we had better players but they were mugs. It seems a round about way of praising Ashley. The only thing I know about business is working out how much commission I'm gonna earn at the end of the month, yet me n yee would be more popular figure heads than these.

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I dont think putting it down to luck for the 3rd season in a row is credible Stevie but thats just my opinion obviously. If we lose 4-0 against City and Best is anonymous thats all the proof you need? Seriously? I was living abroad by then but at that match and we were shite that day. Mainly remembered for idiots throwing their empty season ticket books on to the pitch in disgust. ;)

 

The club has lost support off the pitch but thats not the whole picture. I understand very much your sentiments regarding Villa and Everton but there is no 'least we should expect' because the game is more about money now than ever and all sorts of clubs are connected to financial power that eradicates traditional differences in strength. Stoke are one of the most ambitious spenders as they are connected to Bet365, Al Fayed has hoyed £180m into Fulham. If you base what you expect on traditional measures of fan loyalty, size and even past performance then you are right, we should expect at least 7th. I dont think we are aiming too far away from that at the minute tbf. On that last point, we didnt finish 7th in 2007 and Shepherd would have stuck with Allardyce the following season so for me, all your highlighting is that we were't achieving it back then and didnt look likely to the next season.

From losing 2-1 at Scunthorpe with 3 defeats in 9 championship games a situation of Ashley's making, I think that was probably the lowest modern NUFC could go. Its like a deep cut at its worst nothing can stop the situation improving. If DEADMAN was the owner and Kevin was Llambias, there's no way on earth that the club would've failed to improve.

Not sure i follow, we went backwards from 2007 to losing 3 in 9 in the championship but this question is not about the pathway we've took. Its about point A (then) and point B (now).

As a football club the answer is emphatically no. Are the players the playing squad we have better than they were then? No. Are they better kids definitely yes, which is having an impact on the team spirit hence why they're gelling better. Milner and N'Zogbia would walk in wor team so would Viduka and Owen then if they were happy, we had better players but they were mugs. It seems a round about way of praising Ashley. The only thing I know about business is working out how much commission I'm gonna earn at the end of the month, yet me n yee would be more popular figure heads than these.

Bearing in mind Milner's, Owen's, and N'Zogbia's age, performance and fitness levels in 06/07, rather them at their best, then in that team there is an ageing Solano in defence, Parker (not bad), Butt (on his last legs) and idiotic and immature Bramble, that Belgian lad who was shite, that arsehole Martins and Dyer being about the only thing that might give us a spark. Rather have Ba and Ben Arfa than them last two. Edited by ChezGiven

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I dont think putting it down to luck for the 3rd season in a row is credible Stevie but thats just my opinion obviously. If we lose 4-0 against City and Best is anonymous thats all the proof you need? Seriously? I was living abroad by then but at that match and we were shite that day. Mainly remembered for idiots throwing their empty season ticket books on to the pitch in disgust. ;)

 

The club has lost support off the pitch but thats not the whole picture. I understand very much your sentiments regarding Villa and Everton but there is no 'least we should expect' because the game is more about money now than ever and all sorts of clubs are connected to financial power that eradicates traditional differences in strength. Stoke are one of the most ambitious spenders as they are connected to Bet365, Al Fayed has hoyed £180m into Fulham. If you base what you expect on traditional measures of fan loyalty, size and even past performance then you are right, we should expect at least 7th. I dont think we are aiming too far away from that at the minute tbf. On that last point, we didnt finish 7th in 2007 and Shepherd would have stuck with Allardyce the following season so for me, all your highlighting is that we were't achieving it back then and didnt look likely to the next season.

From losing 2-1 at Scunthorpe with 3 defeats in 9 championship games a situation of Ashley's making, I think that was probably the lowest modern NUFC could go. Its like a deep cut at its worst nothing can stop the situation improving. If DEADMAN was the owner and Kevin was Llambias, there's no way on earth that the club would've failed to improve.

Not sure i follow, we went backwards from 2007 to losing 3 in 9 in the championship but this question is not about the pathway we've took. Its about point A (then) and point B (now).

As a football club the answer is emphatically no. Are the players the playing squad we have better than they were then? No. Are they better kids definitely yes, which is having an impact on the team spirit hence why they're gelling better. Milner and N'Zogbia would walk in wor team so would Viduka and Owen then if they were happy, we had better players but they were mugs. It seems a round about way of praising Ashley. The only thing I know about business is working out how much commission I'm gonna earn at the end of the month, yet me n yee would be more popular figure heads than these.

Bearing in mind Milner's, Owen's, and N'Zogbia's age, performance and fitness levels in 06/07, rather them at their best, then in that team there is an ageing Solano in defence, Parker (not bad), Butt (on his last legs) and idiotic and immature Bramble, that Belgian lad who was shite, that arsehole Martins and Dyer being about the only thing that might give us a spark. Rather have Ba and Ben Arfa than them last two.

I'd rather have our players with their ethic now, but you can't deny the club has massively deteriorated in terms of stature.

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We haven't been "unbelievably lucky" at all.

 

I think both the sunderland and the QPR game were very flattering results, fulham first half as well, and to a certain degree arsenal.

Add to that no injuries at all so far and my view is that we have been sailing with the wind in our backs.

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Pud, you've predicted relegation the last two seasons and bottom 3 by Christmas this season, being forced to revise this must be a sign of some progress recently? Not saying since 2007 but over those 3 seasons at least? No?

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Pud, you've predicted relegation the last two seasons and bottom 3 by Christmas this season, being forced to revise this must be a sign of some progress recently? Not saying since 2007 but over those 3 seasons at least? No?

Yeah Id admit that on current results I could be made to eat my words heavily, at the same time though Im nowhere near revising my prediction on relegation just yet. Bottom 3 is looking unlikely though.

 

I would say though that we are definitely looking better than we have done at this stage in previous seasons, theres no problems with the team gelling or other worries like that. The big test will be how the team reacts when things go wrong, hopefully we'll get to Man City with no major problems. I expect nothing from those 3 games after, if they are all heavy defeats then we could have problems. A win against Norwich would confirm we have the necessary attitude and belief in ourselves.

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