Christmas Tree 4003 Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Btw, PMQ's about to start on radio 5 live for anyone who enjoys the theatre of politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4003 Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Just came across this and had to laugh...., "It is a minority in my view but it hacks people off and I understand why it hacks people off because they say, look, I'm working all the hours God sends, I'm working 50/60 hours a week... and I'm struggling to make ends meet and I feel the person next door isn't doing their bit." .....,,,, Sounds ver familiar doesn't it? Guess who said it? Politicians man Bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18044 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 No good rolling your eyes Labour could have used the booming years to do loads, pay for loads. Instead they dragged us into an illegal war so that Blair could look good in the USA and hocked the nation to its eyeballs. I'm honest enough to understand that in reality, the current economic situation is unprecedented and there is no clear guaranteed way out of it. You on the other hand seem to think there is some magic policy that will turn it all around. Much cleverer people than me or you will argue over this for years to come, the bottom line however is like I have told you many times before. The credit bubble that kept us going through the 90's and 2000's went pop. There are no bubbles left and the average business and citizen has trouble getting credit. Until they can we will continue to bump along. Labour and Coalition have tried various ways to get banks to lend but can't do it. Even if they could, the Eurozone (our main market) has similar and often more problems). I think we are stuck like this for years to come. Just tell me why the chancellor, who has no economic qualifications, is ignoring all advice from those who are qualified in economics, please. If you need putting this in context, just read the posts you have ignored in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4003 Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 I honestly don't know why you allow yourselves to get dragged into it with CT. He's basically an updated version of Leazes. Constructing long well written posts to defeat him with is pointless, cos he just ignores them. So not only can't we trust junkies, we can't trust grown men and women to discuss politics. I'm sure they need you to save them and to drag them back to the security of your exciting house move and posh residents on wysteria lane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 The credit bubble that kept us going through the 90's and 2000's went pop. There are no bubbles left and the average business and citizen has trouble getting credit. Until they can we will continue to bump along. People and businesses not been able to get credit (here and abroad) is the main issue. Until that can be solved by any political party we are fucked. I'm still confused by this line of thought coming from you, are you saying you want a return to the credit bubble? 100+% mortgages being bundled up and rated as gold on an international scale was a massive component of the crash? Successive Tory and Labour governments relaxed the rules to allow it to happen. Nothing has been done to rectify that situation as far as I know, just a vague hope that the bankers have learned a lesson (despite being far wealthier than they could ever have hoped and being bailed out). If it is to be a long drawn out recovery, don't you think the government should introduce some regulation to limit borrowing going forwards, rather than leaving the status quo so they can repeat the crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4003 Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Just tell me why the chancellor, who has no economic qualifications, is ignoring all advice from those who are qualified in economics, please. If you need putting this in context, just read the posts you have ignored in this thread. Such as Moody's who said they would be more worried if the government didn't stick to the course they were on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18044 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 You have to cut through a lot of the pr ( from both sides ) and understand two things. 1. Spending hasn't been cut under the coalition. Increases on spending were cut. 2. The reforms to welfare state haven't begun. Therefore these two issues really have little effect, if any on the current economy. People and businesses not been able to get credit (here and abroad) is the main issue. Until that can be solved by any political party we are fucked. Your directly contradicting the OBR there, just like Cameron did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18044 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Such as Moody's who said they would be more worried if the government didn't stick to the course they were on? Not sure about that, but was really referring to the IMF, the OBR, and the vast majority of, you know, economists? Has out escaped your attention the UK is not in recovery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 7071 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 This one side versus another political dogma is all bullshit, they're all a bunch of self serving cathwords at the beck and call of their paymasters. The problems of society are many and various and none easily solvable. We are in a global economy, our (UK) standard of living, even for the poor is lightyears better than it is for the "poor" in other countries, similarly the working conditions and pay. Problem is, thanks to market globalisation, you get your work done work anywhere, and our workforce can't compete with the other candidate countries for the majority of work, from IT through to shipbuilding, due to the underlying expected/entrenched standards of living. Even forgetting that you're never going to have full employment (or even close) how can you ?? As an example, look at the rules for maternity leave (as an example) jobs have to be held open, unlike in my day, when there was regular turnover due to women leaving to have bairns. Geez even paternity leave wasn't heard of, I had to take some of my annual leave which didn't financially impact my employer. As a country our standards, that we're accustomed to, are so high we're never going to fix it unless India, China and the far east slip into the sea. Irrespective of the blue or red bollocks at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18044 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 This one side versus another political dogma is all bullshit, they're all a bunch of self serving cathwords at the beck and call of their paymasters. The problems of society are many and various and none easily solvable. We are in a global economy, our (UK) standard of living, even for the poor is lightyears better than it is for the "poor" in other countries, similarly the working conditions and pay. Problem is, thanks to market globalisation, you get your work done work anywhere, and our workforce can't compete with the other candidate countries for the majority of work, from IT through to shipbuilding, due to the underlying expected/entrenched standards of living. Even forgetting that you're never going to have full employment (or even close) how can you ?? As an example, look at the rules for maternity leave (as an example) jobs have to be held open, unlike in my day, when there was regular turnover due to women leaving to have bairns. Geez even paternity leave wasn't heard of, I had to take some of my annual leave which didn't financially impact my employer. As a country our standards, that we're accustomed to, are so high we're never going to fix it unless India, China and the far east slip into the sea. Irrespective of the blue or red bollocks at the top. Bull shit and highly reminiscent of CT's 'managed decline' and race to the bottom rhetoric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4003 Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 I'm still confused by this line of thought coming from you, are you saying you want a return to the credit bubble? 100+% mortgages being bundled up and rated as gold on an international scale was a massive component of the crash? Successive Tory and Labour governments relaxed the rules to allow it to happen. Nothing has been done to rectify that situation as far as I know, just a vague hope that the bankers have learned a lesson (despite being far wealthier than they could ever have hoped and being bailed out). If it is to be a long drawn out recovery, don't you think the government should introduce some regulation to limit borrowing going forwards, rather than leaving the status quo so they can repeat the crime? No, the pendulum has swung too far the other way. British loans, mortgages or small businesses did not cause the crash therefor the heavy handed withdrawal of credit was not needed. Brown understood this and made it one of his biggest priorities 2008-2010 and subsequently the coalition has tried to get it working. Banks investing in foreign muck caused the problem, not Brits moving home or diy'ing or general over shopping, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4003 Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Your directly contradicting the OBR there, just like Cameron did. No I'm not. Both points are valid. A reduction on future budgets is different to a reduction on actual spending. It's like you expecting a 20% increase in pay over the next five years and then finding out you are getting nowt or only 5%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4003 Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 This one side versus another political dogma is all bullshit, they're all a bunch of self serving cathwords at the beck and call of their paymasters. The problems of society are many and various and none easily solvable. We are in a global economy, our (UK) standard of living, even for the poor is lightyears better than it is for the "poor" in other countries, similarly the working conditions and pay. Problem is, thanks to market globalisation, you get your work done work anywhere, and our workforce can't compete with the other candidate countries for the majority of work, from IT through to shipbuilding, due to the underlying expected/entrenched standards of living. Even forgetting that you're never going to have full employment (or even close) how can you ?? As an example, look at the rules for maternity leave (as an example) jobs have to be held open, unlike in my day, when there was regular turnover due to women leaving to have bairns. Geez even paternity leave wasn't heard of, I had to take some of my annual leave which didn't financially impact my employer. As a country our standards, that we're accustomed to, are so high we're never going to fix it unless India, China and the far east slip into the sea. Irrespective of the blue or red bollocks at the top. Yup (sorry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 35493 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 So not only can't we trust junkies, we can't trust grown men and women to discuss politics. I'm sure they need you to save them and to drag them back to the security of your exciting house move and posh residents on wysteria lane. We can't trust you to discuss anything that requires intelligent thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 7071 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Bull shit and highly reminiscent of CT's 'managed decline' and race to the bottom rhetoric. Not BS at all, it's all true. It's nowt to do with managed decline, it's inevitable and is happening and has been happening for years, I ran my first offshoring project (to India) of first line IT support activities, 9 fucking years ago, they now do second and third line support as a matter of course (the whole shebang in other words), for many of the major players in IT and thus a lot of blue chips etc. The company I worked for at that time is now Indian owned, it was US owned at the time and there's possibly a third the number of folks left in the UK (and the US in the same company division) at most. I've been involved in ships being built in Singapore, with their cranes coming from China and the final fitting out assemby/commisioning in Rotterdam, heavy lift barges being refitted in Singapore and commissioned in Angola, so please don't call bullshit on stuff you know fuck all about. Why not the Tyne or the Clyde ?? (and it's nowt to do with previous governments) How do we compete/level the playing field with the emerging markets then ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4003 Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Bull shit and highly reminiscent of CT's 'managed decline' and race to the bottom rhetoric. Of course it's not. It's why China, India, Brazil (and at some point (Afica) are booming. We all want the cheaper products as long as the qualitys fine and these countries can do it for buttons. It will only get worse as more and more jobs migrate. Not sure how you can even begin to argue against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 7071 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Yup (sorry) Fuck off, it's not dogma, it's fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4003 Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Fuck off, it's not dogma, it's fact. ???? Confused. I know it's fact. Been saying it for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 35493 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 more Tory infighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18044 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Of course it's not. It's why China, India, Brazil (and at some point (Afica) are booming. We all want the cheaper products as long as the qualitys fine and these countries can do it for buttons. It will only get worse as more and more jobs migrate. Not sure how you can even begin to argue against it. Did you get sound to watching that Andrew Marr documentary I told you about (prior to his stroke, obviously). There's still plenty of scope for the UK to lead the way on cutting edge technologies and services. To deny this is defeatist and frankly idiotic, even Cameron knows this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18044 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 No I'm not. Both points are valid. A reduction on future budgets is different to a reduction on actual spending. It's like you expecting a 20% increase in pay over the next five years and then finding out you are getting nowt or only 5%. You've missed my point, which released to the OBR telling Cameron austerity is a major reason for our lack of growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Fuck off, it's not dogma, it's fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 7071 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 more Tory infighting. I am apolitical, I hate them all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 7071 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 That would have made it fekt not fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 No, the pendulum has swung too far the other way. British loans, mortgages or small businesses did not cause the crash therefor the heavy handed withdrawal of credit was not needed. Brown understood this and made it one of his biggest priorities 2008-2010 and subsequently the coalition has tried to get it working. Banks investing in foreign muck caused the problem, not Brits moving home or diy'ing or general over shopping, Northern Rock was nationalised on the back of a subprime crisis, surely the government should push for regulation against that sort of thing, if only to protect it's customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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