Rayvin

I didn't specifically say that tbh. I'm just making a general observation that the educated urbanites seem to vote our way. The problem seems to be more urban vs rural/towns than educated vs uneducated. Having said that, if these people are voting for their futures based on whether someone like me thinks they're educated or not they're beyond help. I've seen so many people saying "ha, that's what you get for insulting leave voters" and all that tells me is that leave voters are so immature that they're prepared to vote stupidly, ignore all reason, just because someone said something mean about them. I don't believe for a second they're that childish.

Yeah, I think it's an overreaction tbh. We need whoever is best placed to pummel Johnson, not another populist.

You can sign me up for whichever one of them wants to introduce gulags and abolish private property, naturally.

I'm currently tempted to vote Cooper, but will see what they all have to say first

What has Lisa Nandy done to deserve such high praise?

I'm genuinely unsure we can repair this faultline between the northern working classes and the urbanite educated. And I see no Labour leader capable of speaking to the former from the people considering running. Which makes me think we may as well just go for the smartest person in the room.

Aye, I've rejoined.

I mean, naturally he would do all the worst stuff right at the start though. It'll get less insane as we move forward.

Boris will claim it's Labour's fault for not stopping him, and the BBC will start talking about how ineffective the opposition was at a time of great national peril - and how only Boris can be trusted to do the work of both the government and the leader of the opposition.

True enough. But we need to bring them with us somehow.

He is indeed, it's the hard left and right who are rejecting it. Thus it isn't a left vs right thing anymore.

Globalism vs anti-globalism. The Tories have chosen their side and actually I think its clear that they've grasped the direction of travel here. We need to be globalist but with a positive vision for the future that pulls people with it. The Labour party stands no chance of realising that however. The working classes, I suspect, are lost to us.

Bedwetting over on RTG getting desperate now I guess...

I fucking hate Joris Bohnson. This is going to be 5 years of total bullshit.

But he's outlawing the extension... so what if the EU ask us for it, it's illegal?

So far, this is going completely as expected, feared and warned.

Wasn't serious mate. I read your posts, I know more or less what you're about. All I really mean is we need to stick together and not polarise.

Well idk man, we tend to always have a progressive majority in this country that is suppressed by FPTP. Maybe Australia is just full of right wingers.

Something something centrism something something.

I mean, who is surprised? This is what the spanners voted for.

We're in for at least 10 years of Tory rule if the people whose viewpoints Tom aligns with and the people whose viewpoints ewerk aligns with, can't meet in the middle. We need very similar policies next time out albeit more focused and less scattergun, and a flourish of patriotic zeal for the weak minded, along with media savvy. We need to be a moderate left wing party that is slick and ruthless.

Radical but potentially lethal to the Tories: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/16/lib-dems-tories-split-vote-labour There'd be an almight power struggle though.

I don't think it's over yet - we'll have to see but the membership are the ones who decide. I won't vote RLB I don't think, and Rayner is falling in behind her. Not sure who I'll go for just yet but whatever Momentum and the party want isn't as important as the membership.

Also this argument that these criticisms are only happening because we're all in our bubbles. No. I read the Mail, the Sun, the Telegraph in the run up to that election. I'm not in a fucking bubble and I still think they're a shambles.

No one is claiming that. I don't think I've seen anyone state the the BBC is issuing instructions from on high. The problem is individual reporters who have a clear and apparent bias because they may or may not be sleeping with Boris Johnson. Also, I keep seeing people say "the BBC is far from perfect but..." And it's now coming over in the same way as "I'm not racist but..." because there is never any acknowledgement of where the BBC does fail. It's just a cursory remark they throw out there as a catch all for criticism. The reality is that if there isn't bias, there has been staggering incompetence which should absolutely see the lead political editor sacked amongst others in the interest of maintaining public trust. As any other organisation would probably do after that shitshow. So again, why isn't that happening? So my message to the BBC - if you want to trust, acknowledge your fuck ups and the implications of them, take remedial actions with the staff involved, and commit to a far higher standard going forward. If you aren't prepared to do that then just fuck off with these articles. Sorry mate but seriously, it's not excusable.