Rayvin

Bedwetting over on RTG getting desperate now I guess...

I fucking hate Joris Bohnson. This is going to be 5 years of total bullshit.

But he's outlawing the extension... so what if the EU ask us for it, it's illegal?

So far, this is going completely as expected, feared and warned.

Wasn't serious mate. I read your posts, I know more or less what you're about. All I really mean is we need to stick together and not polarise.

Well idk man, we tend to always have a progressive majority in this country that is suppressed by FPTP. Maybe Australia is just full of right wingers.

Something something centrism something something.

I mean, who is surprised? This is what the spanners voted for.

We're in for at least 10 years of Tory rule if the people whose viewpoints Tom aligns with and the people whose viewpoints ewerk aligns with, can't meet in the middle. We need very similar policies next time out albeit more focused and less scattergun, and a flourish of patriotic zeal for the weak minded, along with media savvy. We need to be a moderate left wing party that is slick and ruthless.

Radical but potentially lethal to the Tories: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/16/lib-dems-tories-split-vote-labour There'd be an almight power struggle though.

I don't think it's over yet - we'll have to see but the membership are the ones who decide. I won't vote RLB I don't think, and Rayner is falling in behind her. Not sure who I'll go for just yet but whatever Momentum and the party want isn't as important as the membership.

Also this argument that these criticisms are only happening because we're all in our bubbles. No. I read the Mail, the Sun, the Telegraph in the run up to that election. I'm not in a fucking bubble and I still think they're a shambles.

No one is claiming that. I don't think I've seen anyone state the the BBC is issuing instructions from on high. The problem is individual reporters who have a clear and apparent bias because they may or may not be sleeping with Boris Johnson. Also, I keep seeing people say "the BBC is far from perfect but..." And it's now coming over in the same way as "I'm not racist but..." because there is never any acknowledgement of where the BBC does fail. It's just a cursory remark they throw out there as a catch all for criticism. The reality is that if there isn't bias, there has been staggering incompetence which should absolutely see the lead political editor sacked amongst others in the interest of maintaining public trust. As any other organisation would probably do after that shitshow. So again, why isn't that happening? So my message to the BBC - if you want to trust, acknowledge your fuck ups and the implications of them, take remedial actions with the staff involved, and commit to a far higher standard going forward. If you aren't prepared to do that then just fuck off with these articles. Sorry mate but seriously, it's not excusable.

Not mouthpiece, just bias. And they're threatening it so far, not actually doing it. Also, if i was a right wing Tory government intent on various outlandish right wing shit, I would force the Overton window to expand whether it was already favourable or not.

LDs pretty consistent there. This is going to be the balancing act - how to keep the urban younglings engaged while speaking to working class England.

It was Swinson and the SNP who ignored it. I guess the latter got what they wanted, but Swinson delusionally thought she could get 100 seats. I obviously now understand why Labour wasn't keen. I've read a few leave voters (better educated ones) saying that the Tories were fucked until we gave them a lifeline. That Swinson should have sucked it up and agreed to have Corbyn as the figurehead for a GNU instead of throwing her toys out of the pram. And tbh they're right. This was Remain throwing away victory more than the Tories stealing it.

As it stands, when Scotland becomes independent under the current system, we lose about 50 progressive seats. We would have Tory governments for the rest of time despite the fact that most of the population would be voting against it. I don't care if Farage gets to become a bit more powerful because in the end, none of the other parties will agree to his more radical desires. The point will be thay Labour and the Tories will need to occasionally work together.

10m isn't that bad. It's higher than one of Blair's victories. But yes, coalition of the left! Except the LDs aren't the left..

I don't know, maybe we let him run with it a bit and build up momentum first. I'm just saying, if we're going to be pragmatic now then it makes sense. We're fucked without PR and I'm prepared to live with Farage if it saves us from 15 years of the Tories. If he gets the idea into the heads of the working classes, who he is far better suited to communicate with apparently, even if they pull the rug out we can pick up where he left off.

So we can work with a massive racist, or we can be ruled over by massive racists. I though pragmatism was the order of the day now?

I mean, it'll happen if we start actively trying for it. It's not like any of the big parties were remotely interested in it back in 2011. If Labour went all in on it with Farage in tow, I don't see why not.

Yeah but who cares about that if we get PR? It permanently fucks the right in this country. And probably the extreme left, but even so. It should be nectar from heaven for all you centrists

I mean that's it. Much as I hate the cunt if he now morphs into some kind of legitimate voice of the working class and weaponises their vote into achieving PR then I'll back him next time out. Tactical voting for Reform or any other party backing PR What have we come to..

Aye, that's the thing. Especially given that we outnumber them. We need proportional representation. Which is apparently Farage's next move politically, so maybe we need to get to a point where we're backing Farage..? Just to get the right outcome in the end...

I mean, that's assuming of course that the Tories have a fairly straight run over the next 5 year's which seems doubtful. I'm struggling with this though. There is a big part of me that wants to sack off caring about any of this and adopt the Tory "I'm alright, Jack" attitude. I mean I'm sceptical about where it is that the youthful and ideological left, who number several million based on this turnout, are going to cross over with the traditional working class. I'm not going to vote right wing on law and order. It's regressive, retarded and counter productive. I could be persuaded to vote to the right side of immigration since that battle has been lost so spectacularly - but many others couldn't be. It's not just about what the working class want. There aren't actually more of them than us. That's the problem here.