Super_Steve_Howey

Perhaps because a similar event has never happened? Passenger jets rarely hit buildings, even less so at that trajectory. The Pentagon is possibly unique in its design and construction.

Where did you get that from the temp seem too low. What's the melting point of steel? That depends on the alloy of steel you are talking about. The term alloy is almost always used incorrectly these days, especially amongst bicyclists. They use the term to mean aluminum. What the term alloy really means is a mixture of metals, any kind of metals. Almost all metal used today is a mixture and therefore an alloy. Most steel has other metals added to tune its properties, like strength, corrosion resistance, or ease of fabrication. Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F). Steel doesn't need to melt to bacome structurally unsound. You can bend steel without metling it right? The figure is for standard structural steel. Steel alloys contains trace amounts of other elements/compunds (not metals) to engender enhanced properties. This is not to increase melting point, since the material is still 99% Fe. Using complicated alloys is not cost-effective or even necessary for structural support, structural design is far more important, standard properly hardened steel is sufficient for buildings given the above. Plus these towers date from the 60's no?. I know what you're saying, but how does a fire on a few floors near the top of such a building make the steel fail near the bottom? Built in the late 70's iirc. Lloyds of London were left holding the main risk mamagement. One or two of whom are clients of mine as they are also heavily involved in shipping. You should hear what they say after a few beers. Who says it did? You should hear what they say after a few beers What did they say? To put it politely they have some issues with the way the buildings were re-insured.....And Finkelstien isn't one of their favourite people...The way this kind of insurance works is that the risk is often diluted by seperate entities taking up the cover as a joint venture. Without going into detail Lloyds were highly circumspect about the re-insurance package and the formula involved. We're not quite in the territory of renegade brokers....But we're close. Spell it out for me, i'm ignorant in felony insurance fraud. Aren't they just sore they had to pay out an insurance policy, or is there something else I've missed?

Where did you get that from the temp seem too low. What's the melting point of steel? That depends on the alloy of steel you are talking about. The term alloy is almost always used incorrectly these days, especially amongst bicyclists. They use the term to mean aluminum. What the term alloy really means is a mixture of metals, any kind of metals. Almost all metal used today is a mixture and therefore an alloy. Most steel has other metals added to tune its properties, like strength, corrosion resistance, or ease of fabrication. Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F). Steel doesn't need to melt to bacome structurally unsound. You can bend steel without metling it right? The figure is for standard structural steel. Steel alloys contains trace amounts of other elements/compunds (not metals) to engender enhanced properties. This is not to increase melting point, since the material is still 99% Fe. Using complicated alloys is not cost-effective or even necessary for structural support, structural design is far more important, standard properly hardened steel is sufficient for buildings given the above. Plus these towers date from the 60's no?. I know what you're saying, but how does a fire on a few floors near the top of such a building make the steel fail near the bottom? Built in the late 70's iirc. Lloyds of London were left holding the main risk mamagement. One or two of whom are clients of mine as they are also heavily involved in shipping. You should hear what they say after a few beers. make the steel fail near the bottom? Who says it did? You should hear what they say after a few beers What did they say?

Where did you get that from the temp seem too low. What's the melting point of steel? http://education.jlab.org/qa/meltingpoint_01.html "That depends on the alloy of steel you are talking about. The term alloy is almost always used incorrectly these days, especially amongst bicyclists. They use the term to mean aluminum. What the term alloy really means is a mixture of metals, any kind of metals. Almost all metal used today is a mixture and therefore an alloy. Most steel has other metals added to tune its properties, like strength, corrosion resistance, or ease of fabrication. Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F)." The steel in the towers were also treated with an asbestos type compound to give it greater resistance against fire...It was the re-application of this treatment which was CAUSING PROBLEMS IN SELLING THE BUILDINGS as insurance companies wanted the treatment re-done, which would have been a hell of an expensive process. Again I repeat the 'jet fuel' would have burnt off in seconds....Any idea what what this oxygen starved fire (black smoke) was kept going by?? Office furniture doesn't have the ability to reach high temps that is needed to buckle steel. If steel was weakened in the upper part of the building, I am wondering how the collpased so methodically without any 'lean' whatsoever. There are a lot of anomalies about this event, hence the interesest worldwide. IMO there was foul play at work, but to what extent who can tell? IMO the building didn't collapse just cause they were hit by Jets. The steel in the towers were also treated with an asbestos type compound to give it greater resistance against fire...It was the re-application of this treatment which was CAUSING PROBLEMS IN SELLING THE BUILDINGS as insurance companies wanted the treatment re-done, which would have been a hell of an expensive process. Are you trying to imply that the steel had a higher heat resistance because of it's coating, or that this coating was innefective and needed replacing so they blew up the towers instead? Make your mind up. Any idea what what this oxygen starved fire (black smoke) was kept going by?? Do you? Office furniture doesn't have the ability to reach high temps that is needed to buckle steel. Fire brigade studies of the temperatures reached just inside a single living room fire are phenomenal. The material being burnt is not the only factor influencing the temperature reached in a fire. If steel was weakened in the upper part of the building, I am wondering how the collpased so methodically without any 'lean' whatsoever. Why wouldn't it? IMO the building didn't collapse just cause they were hit by Jets. Yet you have no plausible counter-explanantions. Only questions.

Where did you get that from the temp seem too low. What's the melting point of steel? That depends on the alloy of steel you are talking about. The term alloy is almost always used incorrectly these days, especially amongst bicyclists. They use the term to mean aluminum. What the term alloy really means is a mixture of metals, any kind of metals. Almost all metal used today is a mixture and therefore an alloy. Most steel has other metals added to tune its properties, like strength, corrosion resistance, or ease of fabrication. Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F). Steel doesn't need to melt to bacome structurally unsound. You can bend steel without metling it right? The figure is for standard structural steel. Steel alloys contains trace amounts of other elements/compunds (not metals) to engender enhanced properties. This is not to increase melting point, since the material is still 99% Fe. Using complicated alloys is not cost-effective or even necessary for structural support, structural design is far more important, standard properly hardened steel is sufficient for buildings given the above. Plus these towers date from the 60's no?.

He only went for a bit of pre-season training and a decent pie and pint.

Feeding me lions the good stuff only for today mind

The racing speed and weight of NASCAR's completely precludes racing on tracks with tight or flat corners, the cars would either roll off the track or have to slow down so much, you would need massive straights to get back to full speed (hence the rolling starts). These cars have crap acceleration and low speed handling. What they do have is fast as feck engines (220mph if the new mandated restrictor plates are removed) and unpredictable aerodynamic and handling behaviours at top speeds heavily influnced by the other cars relative positions (hence the tow/bump behaviour) and tyre condition. The result is the opportunity for drivers to practice the real art of racing, that is timing, judgement, and adaptation, at literally lethal speeds (c.f. Dale Earnhart). You could have left and right banking turns, but that would just mean half the track being obscured to spectators, for not much benefit. Add to that the fact that otherwise competing teams cooperating when it suits to screw over other teams is allowed, and technology is kept basic to allow competition, I think it's pretty exciting. For racing skill I watch BTCC, but for high speed racing I for one am now a total convert to NASCAR from the turd that is F1. Plus, you can't beat crossing the finish line upside down in flames, try that in an Indi Car

Bit more to it than that.... It's shite man. The best at this would be one of the worst at F1. FACTAMUNDO! Montoya.... EARLYJUDGEMENTTASTIC!!!

Bit more to it than that....

I have realised that, in contrast to F1, where you only really need to watch the first ten minutes, in NASCAR, you only really need to watch the last 10 minutes. As for BTCC, 10 minutes and the race is over

Thermite is a reaction between aluminium and iron III oxide (present in rust, rust protection treatments and computer storage devices). A jet fueled building inferno can reach 800 deg C. Seel has a critical temperature of 500 deg C at which point it is no longer considered capable of structural support. Aluminium melts at 600 deg C. Thermite reactions occur mostly in the liquid metal phase. The normally high ignition temperature of pure thermite can be reduced by the already liquid state of aluminium, the prior presence of flame (i.e. a building fire, although thermite cannot be ignited by flame alone), and the presence of small quantities of sulphur (a by-product of innefficient hydrocarbon burning i.e. a building fire). Thermite reactions can be initiated by high energy friction of metals and abrasives (i.e. a building collapsing). Once ignited, a thermite reaction requires no oxygen (i.e. it cannot be smothered) and will sustain itself from iron oxide and reactive metals (aluminium, copper, steel i.e. a building debris field). Thermite reactions produce extremely high temperatures (i.e. capable of melting steel), exacerbated by the inability of the reaction heat to escape (i.e. in an underground fire). Q.E.D An explanation for thermite processes in a building collapse caused by an aeroplane strike What do I win?

Let's be clear...Finkelstein basically purchased and insured and then re-insured (doubling the cover) a building complex which they had been unable to sell for 10 years. So he thought, what the hell, I'll just murder 3,000 people, as long as I get my money back?

The French embassy?

Put it another way ... given the choice, would you rather that Keegan had not left or that Robson had not been sacked?

Closest yet, geographically and politically. Paris?

6/10 at the most

Mogadishu?

I simply dont get the love of him. He was good but a country mile away from great. Liverpool fans dont exactly think the world of him do they? They know his standard and allow really good players like Gerrard to piss them about. but Bellamy? Not gonna happen is it? If he was Waddle, Beardsley, Gazza or Shearer standard at the same point in their careers then I would have a little more regard for him. However, he simply isnt in that league. Or anywhere near it. Terry McDermott was a far better player at his age but I doubt Bellamy would agree with that. He'll never learn. Mainly cos he has very little control over his own ego and temperament. take away the injuries and he's a quality player imo. the problem has always been his attitude. bobby robson had the patience and man-management skills to cope with him but i doubt benietez will bother. he'll probably just buy a replacement and flog him to bolton - i could see big sam getting the best out of him tbh. Well if he does, he's an idiot. He knew fine well what he was buying. If that happens I'd be asking questions of Benitez if I was the gillette man.

60 hehehe fuckin more than you took to Vitesse Arnhem 2001 you murdering bastards. No more than 10,000 of your match going support are dippers. 10,000 dippers, 15,000 "wools", 15,000 Southern/Midlands/Taffy/Mick cunts, 5,000 foreigners, which is why you can't sell out midweek. Wanks. Here he goes again, fuckin boring twat, do you look for scouses on holiday to argue with, I suppose not, okay behind your fuckin keyboard. Scouse bastard. No need to sign your posts man, we can see your avatar

I'm not. Peace for the Liverpool 1 I feel a campaign coming on. Don't be a Victim son!!

They're in the Sun pictured laughing and joking today, so it looks like another Dyer/Bowyer thing to me

Is there a need to brag about your European trophies when the very same club is responsible for denying British clubs a good few European trophies of their own? Fuck the 2 faced scouse scumbag

Racism is an extension of tribalism and the rejection of difference, a perfectly natural human trait. The enlightened generation are trying to re-write the human rule book by abhorring what are infact ingrained behaviours. Racism will only be eliminated around about the same time as religious fervour, offensive use of violence, self interest, infidelity and envy Good luck I say Do you work for the BNP? I don't see it as an extremist view. I just calls it common sense

I watched it and for me it didnt deal well enough with one of the major events in the story, namely that its likely that they brought flight 93 down instead of letting it hit its intended target. Quite plausible that the government would cover this up afterwards as it wouldnt have been very palatable for the public. Thats the only event in the story that is a bit suspect. Everything else, its fairly clear what happened. However, the film dealt with the one of the more minor events very badly. That wasnt really even an event, it was whether the CIA knew that the al qaeda operatives were in the US and whether they knew what they were planning. If they did, they should have told the local FBI and they should have acted. The film last night explained that 'the CIA and FBI are 2 big organisation and the CIA gave the FBI the information but the FBI, what with it being a big organisation and all, failed to act on this information'. That was poor imo, the film concludes that the US were guilty of intelligence failures like with WMD not a conspiracy. I felt that the possiblilty the CIA knew what was happening and let it happen anyway as still 'un-investigated'. Building 7 was still a mystery after the film too. I can't see how bringing flight 93 down would be a hard pill to swallow. Pretty sure the public would have accepted it knowing the damage the other 3 planes had caused. As I remember, one of the bombers was on a CIA watchlist when he entered, and surveilance was initiated, but he was lost while he was in the country.