Ken

I'm sorry, I just can't help but laugh. It just never ends. That is all...

This one is a little more genuine than the one I posted previously. It was shot a couple of days ago by a news crew in America; Article and video. Click please.

They were all on speed. I was actually thinking about that. Might have been a factor tbh. Although it doesn't really make you hallucinate the lack of sleep because of it can. I don't think it completely explains the whole thing however. Drugs, lack of sleep and masses of stress can do all sorts, but , and I guess no one ever will. The only thing is, there are occasions when you had a whole crew of a bomber seeing the same thing at the same time. I'm not saying that means we're dealing with alien spacecraft or anything. Also, the phenomena was reported by Allied and Axis airmen alike. The phenomena was markedly different in the Pacific compared to over Europe as well. Well and truly weird imo. A lot of those sightings can be attributed to natural phenomena like ball lightning. wikitastic But this of course doesn't explain the sighting of physically solid objects, witnessed by many airmen.

That's nothing man. Take a look at this one. youtube.com/watch?v=RJYJt3gOX1c

Did you hear this from Jake Reason? open minds forum

Yes, that's a possibility, but he doesn't like the theory that technology, ideology, and customs may not be indigenous. Or it could mean there was a civilisation that rivaled Atlantis in the same time period. Mu, Lumeria?.. only in folklore currently but so was Troy not too long ago. I'm well aware of changing sea levels. I'm also well aware of shifting geology, hence why it's possible that the structures off Japan are man made and are now deep below sea level. Hawass and the Egyptian Govt are basically peddling lies. Not telling lies, just not seeking evidence to dispel alternate theories. The only theory he has dispelled is the Pyramid/alien connection. But anyone with an ounce of knowledge about the subject would have known that that was bollocks. Aliens didn't create the pyramids, man did, Egyptians. But the watermarks on the sphinx theory has been avoided by Hawass. He's a nationalist, and a traditionalist. What has been written should stay that way. Are you going by the dynastic time-scale for construction? Yes. Pyramids built beginning 2500BC to match up stars in Sirius and Orion belt, to symbolise heaven on earth. You have to go back to 10,500BC for the sphinx, along with the pyramids to all be aligned. So there were priests with astronomical knowledge in 10,500BC and this was all a grand master plan to map out a heaven on earth. This was a very brief summary.

Richard Hoagland is a very interesting man. His website is here and it has a mountain of information on it; enterprisemission.com My personal view is that he's a pseudoscientist and a sensationalist. The problem with people like Hoagland is that when they first come on to the scene, you stop and listen to them. You think, "yes, good theory, that's quite possible". But as time goes on these people are compelled to make wilder and wilder claims, to the point where they really start sounding like they are border line insane. Amongst Hoagland's most unusual claims are; That he believes the Asian Tsunami was a hyperdimensional occurance. That Iapetus (one of Saturn's moons) is a death star, like the one from Star Wars. That the Egyptian pyramids were not made by ancient Egyptians but by aliens. Now even these are way too much for me to handle. It's a shame he is compelled to come up with such things because some, and I do stress the word some, of his other claims sound credible in my opinion, and he has attempted to justify them with science. But now unfortunately he just sounds like an egocentric nutter earning a living by selling a book full of fables, and he's known to scream down those who don't agree with him too.

Indeed. He's just following in the footsteps of many politicians before and after him who after finishing their political careers, enjoy attending functions and talks. That function happened early this year and while he talks about things there which aren't really new, well most of that has been out there for well over a decade, I did find his views on aircraft confrontations with UFOs fascinating. After all he was the Defence Minister for Canada and he would have been privy to that sort of information as America and Canada share the same eyes in the sky... and space. NORAD

Ex Canadian Defence Minister talking about contact that has been made between ETs and the Americans. Also claims an evil government within a government; youtube.com/watch?v=RGyFWyNuF3s

Yes, that's a possibility, but he doesn't like the theory that technology, ideology, and customs may not be indigenous. Or it could mean there was a civilisation that rivaled Atlantis in the same time period. Mu, Lumeria?.. only in folklore currently but so was Troy not too long ago. I'm well aware of changing sea levels. I'm also well aware of shifting geology, hence why it's possible that the structures off Japan are man made and are now deep below sea level. Hawass and the Egyptian Govt are basically peddling lies. Not telling lies, just not seeking evidence to dispel alternate theories. The only theory he has dispelled is the Pyramid/alien connection. But anyone with an ounce of knowledge about the subject would have known that that was bollocks. Aliens didn't create the pyramids, man did, Egyptians. But the watermarks on the sphinx theory has been avoided by Hawass. He's a nationalist, and a traditionalist. What has been written should stay that way.

Yes, that's a possibility, but he doesn't like the theory that technology, ideology, and customs may not be indigenous. Or it could mean there was a civilisation that rivaled Atlantis in the same time period. Mu, Lumeria?.. only in folklore currently but so was Troy not too long ago. I'm well aware of changing sea levels. I'm also well aware of shifting geology, hence why it's possible that the structures off Japan are man made and are now deep below sea level.

OMG I had forgotten the old Atlantis theories- I used to love all of that stuff. I used to love arguing that it was true with people to wind them up (foptastic) and ended up believing it myself. my personal favourite theory being the Antarctica once having been Atlantis and for Hapgood's Earth Crustal Shift hypothesis You got me there... Never heard that one treat yourself - its a great read Fingerprints of the Gods - Graham Hancock Review Poking about through an assortment of grand earthly mysteries, Hancock (The Sign and the Seal, 1992) cobbles together a fascinating theory that proposes a lost civilization lying behind the conundrums. Why is it that the ruins of central America appear to show such a profound knowledge of spherical trigonometry millennia before that branch of mathematics was to find currency in the West? How is it that the great temples in Peru and Egypt show a clear understanding of the precession of the equinoxes way prior to its "discovery" by Hipparchus? All of these ancient monuments depict bearded Caucasian men in their sculpture. Pourquoi? Drawing on an amazing wealth of materials - from a close reading of mythology to geological texts, from archaeo-astronomy to rarefied mathematics - Hancock devises a theory that posits a highly evolved civilization that was wiped clear off the face of the earth during the cataclysmic happenings that attended the retreat of the last ice sheet. A resulting massive crustal displacement in turn might have buried the evidence of this advanced culture, leaving only a few survivors to pass on their knowledge to succeeding generations. Egyptian, Olmec, Mayan, and Aztec civilizations all speak of men - Viracocha, Quetzalcoatl, the bearded men - who brought great wisdom into their midst (though why they didn't pass along the principle of the wheel to the Maya is an equal mystery). Where did these learned men come from? Hancock has evidence to suggest Antarctica, explained via a combination of crust movement and the odd fact that the topography of Queen Maud Land appears on a map dated 1513, when it was - and had for millennia been - under ice. He also has evidence that the next apocalypse may be just around the corner. A fancy piece of historical sleuthing - breathless, but intriguing and entertaining and sturdy enough to give a long pause for thought. (Kirkus Reviews) Aye good read. Certainly a topic that makes you ponder. This more recent book is quite good also, delving into the same subject matter; From Atlantis to the Sphinx - Colin Wilson If erosion on the Sphinx was indeed created by flooding, then it blows apart history as we know it. I might be cynical here but Dr Zawi Hawass (Head of Egyptian Antiquities) hasn't really help in dispelling these theories either, actually you could argue he has flamed them more by refusing to take them seriously. Also on the subject of Atlantis while it has been speculated that it may lie in Bimini Atoll, Antarctica, or Thira another interesting place is off the coast of one of Japan's Southern most islands. It's one of those 50/50 topics where some argue it's man made, while others argue it's natural as the site is underwater. Some University in Japan has scientifically dated these structures to 10,000BC. Again, if true it blows apart history as we know it. The Yonaguni Structures.

Everyone is prejudiced in some way, just some won't admit it to themselves (al la Happy Face). Your own prejudice is one of the reasons I liked your "pictures" of me, it clearly shows it and was most interesting. Prejudice in regards to race and religion is what I meant here. Please don't use the geek who watches Star Trek at IT get-togethers, or the salad bowl haircut and wearing thick glasses as an example, because it was not what I meant on this occasion. Although I see the point that you're making. Prejudice is prejudice, the particular flavour doesn't make it ok or not (just popular flavours are popular or unpopular flavours popular to be unpopular..... ). And your prejudiced view of "me" is exactly that, whatever you think you meant or did not. Which is why this whole thing is pretty interesting on several levels. You should be a politician. Easy way out tbh.

Everyone is prejudiced in some way, just some won't admit it to themselves (al la Happy Face). Your own prejudice is one of the reasons I liked your "pictures" of me, it clearly shows it and was most interesting. Prejudice in regards to race and religion is what I meant here. Please don't use the geek who watches Star Trek at IT get-togethers, or the salad bowl haircut and wearing thick glasses as an example, because it was not what I meant on this occasion. Although I see the point that you're making.

If you think gaijin is really directly comparable or the only example, then I may have to explain to you that the Isle of Wight is not "foreign" either. In fact the hard thing do is find a place where vicious prejudice (and the language to go with it) doesn't occur - Antarctica is probably your best bet outside of whaling season. Closed minded people like old Happy Face may struggle with the harsh reality of the world however. No, never did I say gaijin is the only example. But in Japan, that is about as bad as it gets. I maintain the opinion that I made, after all I've spent about 4 years there collectively, and made many non-Japanese friends there who have stayed there much longer, and gaijin is about as bad as it gets over there. As I also said previously prejudice beliefs occur throughout the whole world, but the one common denominator is that they are made by morons. Therefore those who preach prejudice beliefs like the BNP are also morons. Which basically means everyone is a moron in some way or another. No. Not all people in the world are prejudice, but every country in the world has prejudiced people. There is a difference, don't try and get a rise out of me.

If you think gaijin is really directly comparable or the only example, then I may have to explain to you that the Isle of Wight is not "foreign" either. In fact the hard thing do is find a place where vicious prejudice (and the language to go with it) doesn't occur - Antarctica is probably your best bet outside of whaling season. Closed minded people like old Happy Face may struggle with the harsh reality of the world however. No, never did I say gaijin is the only example. But in Japan, that is about as bad as it gets. I maintain the opinion that I made, after all I've spent about 4 years there collectively, and made many non-Japanese friends there who have stayed there much longer, and gaijin is about as bad as it gets over there. As I also said previously prejudice beliefs occur throughout the whole world, but the one common denominator is that they are made by morons. Therefore those who preach prejudice beliefs like the BNP are also morons.

The thing that always amuses me about this is the assumption that it's "whites". Arabic and West Asian slang for white people is hardly flattering, Arabic and West Asian slang for black people certainly isn't (blackened cooking pan being one) - it's just your average white guardian reader hasn't a clue these terms even exist (even though it's very possible they may have been called one of them to their face). Same with African derogatory terms for white people and people arabic/west asian descent. I just love all the hand wringing by people that love to hate, but instead of hating others like the BNP they like to self-hate instead. When in reality both groups are delusional fools. Who's made that assumption like? The reason we're talking about white racism is because this is a thread about the BNP, at least it was before Stevie tried to deflect attention from his racism by turning it into a supafan thread. Feel free to start a black racism thread instead, but as 95% of toontastic posters are white, don't expect as much interest. Interesting that. I'd think more tbh, and the majority have not been fortunate enough to leave the shores of England and explore the world. Some here would arguably consider London foreign. Sorry state of affairs really. Fop makes a half-decent point here though. Prejudice connotations occur all over the world. In Japan a non-Japanese is called a gaijin which means foreigner. Nothing like chink or nip though as our very cultured and sophisticated man on this forum Stevie uses quite often, but it does occur. However I think Fop is just trying to make himself look informative and intelligent, and it is a poor attempt to balance out the failings of poor Stevie. All I've got to say about the BNP though is that it is a non-entity. It will never reach out to the mainstream. It only attracts the uneducated and the desperate. Case closed.

So?.. it doesn't mean you're not racist if your boss is Indian, it just means you know how to conform. Shagging a black lass, well that could mean many things, but doesn't mean you're not racist and speaking Italian doesn't prove a thing, except maybe you've spent time there or it was a requirement for the job you have. My point being is you are quite explicit with the way you describe other races. You feel Muslims are a scurge on society. Maybe some of them are, well not maybe, it is a fact that some are, but many, many more Muslims are an asset to society. Just because they don't go down to the local and drink 8 pints doesn't mean they do not integrate. Stevie you are way to harsh in many of the opinions you have on people. Calling someone a Paki or a Chink is classified as racism to me. Not conformity to PC... pure racism.

Show me those signs mate. You make an effort to tell me how you define being a racist, and I'll reciprocate by looking through what you posted to prove you are, which won't be hard btw. You're the one accusing me of being racist, I don't have to make an effort to do anything. Back up your accusations or pipe down a bit? Eh?..you're the loudest voice on this thread, I've made two posts, well this is will be my third. It's a simple question really, tell me what you think being racist means. I thought it was valid considering you feel you are being unjustly branded one. You're not afraid to do so are you Stevie?

Show me those signs mate. You make an effort to tell me how you define being a racist, and I'll reciprocate by looking through what you posted to prove you are, which won't be hard btw.

Stevie, maybe you could give us your own definition of the word racism. Don't look it up, give your opinion on the word. I've followed this thread from the start and followed all points of view closely. You, imo, clearly show signs of being racist. Not only this thread which must be heaven to you, but others at different times as well. Disprove me if you can.

Cheers Renton. I believe the points I made in regards to successful coverups in wartime hold true and have relevance. Espionage is always most active during this period, and as you say the Soviets managed to shorten their development time of the A-bomb by about a year. 130,000 worked on the project, and at least one of them had to have been tempted to spill the beans for financial gain. One of the greatest military coverups of all time was possibly relating to Unit 731 and Shiro Ichii. The whitewashing in the West in regards to their actions is astounding. He, and those who worked under him should have been the first to front the War Crimes Tribunal and been the first to be executed. I know it's wiki, but it's a decent summary As I've mentioned thousands work at Groom Lake Nevada, various other bases in the US like in Utah, Woomera base in Australia, and many of the installations are deep underground. Funded by a US$30 billion black budget, nobody in the US Senate questions it. Also, read up on ECHELON. OK, it's a global surveillance operation, but really, does anyone know what its true mission statement is and what it really is up to? I know it's wiki, but it's a decent summary Aye it's all speculative, but it's speculative because they manage to keep it so secretive. As for the US Freedom of Information Act, yes, information is subject to release after a time period of 25 years under the Clinton Administration iirc (this may have changed since Bush Jr's been in power though), however there are stipulations that need to be met for it to be released. Generally it's a wide scope of stipulations, like it cannot be released if it is deemed to be against national security policy, it cannot be released if it can be used as a tool to aid another country technologically or industrially, or it cannot be released if it is stamped "classified". It doesn't really leave much does it? Much of what has been released has been blacked out, leaving full page documents with two or three lines of read-worthy material. I really don't know whether there is a government within a government, or whether there is protocol that needs to be adhered to whenever a new govt is formed. There's been a lot of stuff that's been written about that and you can't make out authenticity from shit. Jimbo's example a few posts above is a classic example. Is it genuine, or just a good story??? MJ-12, I believe is genuine but some documents released relating to the issue have proved to be fake. If one piece of information can be debunked then everything else relating to the subject generally is, unfortunately - guilty by association. But what is true is that the US government has consistently lied. So have the FBI, CIA and the NSA. The NSA released 156 documents relating to UFO's in 1980, forced to by the FOIA. 75% of its total content was blacked out. The lies regarding the Roswell crash have been astounding if not comical. First it was a flying saucer, the day after it was a weather balloon. The alien bodies which witnesses described seeing was explained away as being crash test dummies, yet crash test dummies were not used in experiments until 1953, 6 years after the event. After admitting its mistake the US government then decided that they were monkeys. Then in 1996 a govt endorsed book was released which explained it to be a high altitude balloon designed to detect Soviet atomic activity. It was laughed off by witnesses and the book had many contradictory points in it. Why all the secrecy for something which wasn't even cutting edge??? Ref. The F.B.I. Files: The FBI’s UFO TOP SECRETS EXPOSED - Nick Redfern Majestic 12 Documents Update - Stanton Friedman Crash at Corona: The Definitive Study of the Roswell Incident - Don Berliner. The Roswell Report: Truth vs. Fiction in the New Mexico Desert -Col. Richard Weaver, USAF Fascinating subject, but at times quite confusing. Truly, there is more to this than meets the eye