bez

Nonsense Gol. Bramble has always taken more abuse than AOB. FACT! at the end of the sentence doesnt make it a fact. AOB took stick but never the vitriol that followed Titus Bramble. Rather than trivialising the issue try and read into it deeper and realise we still have aproblem. 48714[/snapback] Woosh over the "FACT" tine tbh. Anyway, it's a problem created by people who claim it is a problem. YOU'RE the one that's claiming it's a race issue. Back to your previous post regarding the word "bling"....don't you think that's down to what the actual term means? You think it gets applied to all black players, or just players who walk around covered in thousands of pounds worth of large diamond studded jewels? Fancy going back to my question about Nicky Butt, or are we leaving that one as it doesn't quite fit your arguement? 48717[/snapback] Bling is associated with the black community generally. If you wish I can get you documented evidence of that. That is its origin. The point is that BLACK players get more easily abused simply because as a nation/area we see that BLACK people are more susceptible to abuse than WHITE ones. It happens in all walks of life. Black people (and in fact women in the workplace) have to prove more and quicker than WHITE people. Again that is FACT! (aside from the whoosh/tbh shite) Bling is just another example of tacit racism in the form it is used here and at the match. There are players like Butt who were given more time than the likes of Faye. Both consistently shite. Why? Its tacit. It exists and it people like you who trivialise it that ensure it still exists. Youre lazy minded Gol.

The crowd is getting worse at SJP. Its like listening to bairns playing Championship Manager. Walk up to the ground and you here SKYSPORTS soundbites. "This one is WORLD CLASS - CNZ" (and he was poor today- one or two touches and people start rolling over themselves to honour him-in two months they will have him as scapegoat) Sheep? Unfortunately that is too true. I still go to other grounds when i cant get to away games. Places like Norwich, Ipswich, Sheffield Wed, Crewe, Luton etc have a core of proper fans who have been there for years. They understand the club AND its history (before the bairns start - 4 of those have won trophies more recently than us). Better astmosphere. Less spoilt. Ours is getting an embarrassment. Perhaps we grew to quickly and left a generation who didnt get in acting like automatons. Perhaps its tellys overkill. whatever it is. I have never seen a crowd at SJP more fickle and less aware than it is recently (last 5 years or so) 48622[/snapback] Jesus wept. The fact that the whole "Easy" thing never gets done at SJP apart from yesterday and on very rare occasions at cup games proves to me that it was used yesterday for no other reason than to wind the mackems up. Talk of "40,000 wankaz" and condemnation of the majority of the crowd is a slight overreaction to people taking the piss out of some plebs in the away end, don't you think?? Incidentally I wasn't involved in the chant, and think it's a bit crap, but I'm not quite self-righteous enough to pass judgement on those that were. 48634[/snapback] The chant isnt the point Gemmill. The atmosphere and fickle nature of our crowd is. People seem incapable of thinking without something they heard some fat bloke on SKY say popping into the conversation/argument. Sheep.Easy Easy is simply another example. An embarrassing and cheesy one. 48684[/snapback] Well yesterday we actually had an atmosphere and yet you've decided you didn't like the chants that were a part of it. Now who's fickle? 48690[/snapback] Are you talking about the 'atmosphere' in the second half? It was like a bloody church apart from them singing occasionally.

Pot stirring? We know NEwcastle has racism problems. There are literally hundreds of incidents every season. listen at the ground, in the pubs, on forums. Alex Williams is the most obvious - hoying bananas at him. Its not shit-stirring. Its simply pointing out that we havent got rid of the problems. On KROF day it needs reaffirming. Tyneside isnt very tolerant. Its fickle alright but is there more? Probably yes. A lot more in my view. We, as fans need to be active. Not sticking head in sand like Peasepud has doen and throw arms in air. ITs not all or nothing. If some are - and there are plenty of them - it doesnt follow the peasepud path of sgetting stroppy and suggesting I said ALL are. Nor does it mean NONE are. However, there are plenty. Sadly. At matches some jeer poor players. Others? Well, its hardly coincidental is it? 48682[/snapback] There is a very very small minority of arseholes that will shout out something racist on very rare occasions. That's inexcusable, but I don't think it can accurately be referred to as a "racism problem" - that to me sounds like something deep-seated and widespread and I don't know whereabouts you sit in the ground, but that isn't my experience where I sit. And before anyone starts, I'm not excusing anything or trying to brush the racist comments that are sometimes (and I'm talking VERY rarely, in my experience) made under the carpet. To me, a club with "racism problems" would be one where a black player suffers monkey-chanting etc. I've heard one racist comment this season where I sit and probably two last season, both at away games - sorry, but that's an ignorant arsehole problem, not an entrenched racism problem. The argument that black players are receiving stick because they're black is ridiculous by the way. The ones that you've listed have got stick because they've been playing completely shite - playing the race card on their behalf is pathetic. 48696[/snapback] Personally i have no wish to re-open this can of worms. I said my piece before and i thought a very good debate followed. I also have no wish to create any divisions on here because i like all the regulars i 'know'. However Gemmil, if the last paragraph above is your view with regards to the attitude of all football fans in general, then i think it is a little blinkered. 48705[/snapback] Its a can of worms. Answer this Gemmill. Do Black players get an even playing field regarding abuse - even how 'shite' they are? We win yesterday and out comes the bile towards players who werent even playing? Is that just shit fans? Dont know do we? Babayaro has actually played well this season. He has to do twice what Stephen Carr does to avoid abuse. titus always has got more abuse than AOB. - even though both played poorly. In 2005 Gemmill you have heard racist abuse. In itself, even if its 'just' a slip of the tongue, its ridiculous. The undercurrent is still there in more than the morons though. Black people tend to have to work harder in life to prove themselves. there is documented evidence of that. I suspect that NUFCs black players fall into the same category. They have to do more to avoid the abuse. Nobody is doubting the players have had moments when they have been poor. However, they are one slip up away from more abuse. Others, like Milner, Carr, Ambrose, AOB (for a long long time), Griffin, ALL played badly but didnt get the same level of abuse. Why? Its not a race card Gemmill. Its a very important topic that doesnt need knee jerk replies. 48707[/snapback] I'm not suggesting that racism doesn't exist but I'm not prepared to make assumptions that a player is receiving stick because of the colour of their skin, when that player is consistently underperforming. I've heard plenty of moans and groans at mistakes made by white players too - Nicky Butt got it in the neck plenty, as did O'Brien. As I've said I'm not naively suggesting that there aren't some who think the way you've said, but I know personally that my problems with particular players stem from their performances, whatever their skin colour may be. 48715[/snapback] Butt was given more time than he warranted. Was he given more time than Faye? Of course. Did he warrant it? Not at all. It happens. Too often. People like Gol can use exceptions and I can throw a hundred and one example like posters/people on match day using 'bling bastard' explain whether that is race or football related please. is it aceptable?

Nonsense Gol. Bramble has always taken more abuse than AOB. FACT! at the end of the sentence doesnt make it a fact. AOB took stick but never the vitriol that followed Titus Bramble. Rather than trivialising the issue try and read into it deeper and realise we still have aproblem.

Pot stirring? We know NEwcastle has racism problems. There are literally hundreds of incidents every season. listen at the ground, in the pubs, on forums. Alex Williams is the most obvious - hoying bananas at him. Its not shit-stirring. Its simply pointing out that we havent got rid of the problems. On KROF day it needs reaffirming. Tyneside isnt very tolerant. Its fickle alright but is there more? Probably yes. A lot more in my view. We, as fans need to be active. Not sticking head in sand like Peasepud has doen and throw arms in air. ITs not all or nothing. If some are - and there are plenty of them - it doesnt follow the peasepud path of sgetting stroppy and suggesting I said ALL are. Nor does it mean NONE are. However, there are plenty. Sadly. At matches some jeer poor players. Others? Well, its hardly coincidental is it? 48682[/snapback] There is a very very small minority of arseholes that will shout out something racist on very rare occasions. That's inexcusable, but I don't think it can accurately be referred to as a "racism problem" - that to me sounds like something deep-seated and widespread and I don't know whereabouts you sit in the ground, but that isn't my experience where I sit. And before anyone starts, I'm not excusing anything or trying to brush the racist comments that are sometimes (and I'm talking VERY rarely, in my experience) made under the carpet. To me, a club with "racism problems" would be one where a black player suffers monkey-chanting etc. I've heard one racist comment this season where I sit and probably two last season, both at away games - sorry, but that's an ignorant arsehole problem, not an entrenched racism problem. The argument that black players are receiving stick because they're black is ridiculous by the way. The ones that you've listed have got stick because they've been playing completely shite - playing the race card on their behalf is pathetic. 48696[/snapback] Personally i have no wish to re-open this can of worms. I said my piece before and i thought a very good debate followed. I also have no wish to create any divisions on here because i like all the regulars i 'know'. However Gemmil, if the last paragraph above is your view with regards to the attitude of all football fans in general, then i think it is a little blinkered. 48705[/snapback] It's my attitude with regards to the lads I know that go to watch Newcastle - I can only speak from my own experiences. Not many like Jenas (because he was shit), not many think much of Shola (because he's invariably disappointing), and they're beginning to have a problem with Boumsong (because he doesn't look like much of a defender at the moment). There isn't one of them that has a problem with these players because of the colour of their skin, or at least none that have made that public. 48709[/snapback] Fair enough. However, the point remains: Lee Bowyer is shit and has been for 3 years. Does he get the abuse Jenas did? In the same quantity? Once Boumsong has been targeted - and he will be- will it be as easy for him rather than Stephen Taylor (who has dropped 3 major clangers this season but got away with 2 of them - 1st half vs Man Utd (trying to be clever and thy missed a sitter), Blackburn (diving in/pulling shirts constantly =10men) to avoid the abuse? Most rational people accept that players are players. However, we have seen 101 posters/people in pubs using the words 'bling bastards' with regard to many of our players. Does that have any race connotation or is it something to do with football? Some things are explicit (Alex williams amd bananas thrown from the leazes). It doesnt happen anymore. Does that mean its all gone? Racism is tacit thoughout. And it does exist. The worry from my perspective is that we will NEVER have a decent side until we lose the fickle CM nonsense and we discard this unequal playing field. Do you see what I mean regarding Babayaro/Carr? One has actually played well this season. I have seen the words 'bling' and 'bastard' used to describe him frequently. Why? We seem to have accepted this. Is it racism? Is it a fan who does it? 'waste of spunk' was the descriptor of a player who didnt play yesterday. It wasnt the one who was injured and didnt sue the Mirror.

Pot stirring? We know NEwcastle has racism problems. There are literally hundreds of incidents every season. listen at the ground, in the pubs, on forums. Alex Williams is the most obvious - hoying bananas at him. Its not shit-stirring. Its simply pointing out that we havent got rid of the problems. On KROF day it needs reaffirming. Tyneside isnt very tolerant. Its fickle alright but is there more? Probably yes. A lot more in my view. We, as fans need to be active. Not sticking head in sand like Peasepud has doen and throw arms in air. ITs not all or nothing. If some are - and there are plenty of them - it doesnt follow the peasepud path of sgetting stroppy and suggesting I said ALL are. Nor does it mean NONE are. However, there are plenty. Sadly. At matches some jeer poor players. Others? Well, its hardly coincidental is it? 48682[/snapback] There is a very very small minority of arseholes that will shout out something racist on very rare occasions. That's inexcusable, but I don't think it can accurately be referred to as a "racism problem" - that to me sounds like something deep-seated and widespread and I don't know whereabouts you sit in the ground, but that isn't my experience where I sit. And before anyone starts, I'm not excusing anything or trying to brush the racist comments that are sometimes (and I'm talking VERY rarely, in my experience) made under the carpet. To me, a club with "racism problems" would be one where a black player suffers monkey-chanting etc. I've heard one racist comment this season where I sit and probably two last season, both at away games - sorry, but that's an ignorant arsehole problem, not an entrenched racism problem. The argument that black players are receiving stick because they're black is ridiculous by the way. The ones that you've listed have got stick because they've been playing completely shite - playing the race card on their behalf is pathetic. 48696[/snapback] Personally i have no wish to re-open this can of worms. I said my piece before and i thought a very good debate followed. I also have no wish to create any divisions on here because i like all the regulars i 'know'. However Gemmil, if the last paragraph above is your view with regards to the attitude of all football fans in general, then i think it is a little blinkered. 48705[/snapback] Its a can of worms. Answer this Gemmill. Do Black players get an even playing field regarding abuse - even how 'shite' they are? We win yesterday and out comes the bile towards players who werent even playing? Is that just shit fans? Dont know do we? Babayaro has actually played well this season. He has to do twice what Stephen Carr does to avoid abuse. titus always has got more abuse than AOB. - even though both played poorly. In 2005 Gemmill you have heard racist abuse. In itself, even if its 'just' a slip of the tongue, its ridiculous. The undercurrent is still there in more than the morons though. Black people tend to have to work harder in life to prove themselves. there is documented evidence of that. I suspect that NUFCs black players fall into the same category. They have to do more to avoid the abuse. Nobody is doubting the players have had moments when they have been poor. However, they are one slip up away from more abuse. Others, like Milner, Carr, Ambrose, AOB (for a long long time), Griffin, ALL played badly but didnt get the same level of abuse. Why? Its not a race card Gemmill. Its a very important topic that doesnt need knee jerk replies.

The crowd is getting worse at SJP. Its like listening to bairns playing Championship Manager. Walk up to the ground and you here SKYSPORTS soundbites. "This one is WORLD CLASS - CNZ" (and he was poor today- one or two touches and people start rolling over themselves to honour him-in two months they will have him as scapegoat) Sheep? Unfortunately that is too true. I still go to other grounds when i cant get to away games. Places like Norwich, Ipswich, Sheffield Wed, Crewe, Luton etc have a core of proper fans who have been there for years. They understand the club AND its history (before the bairns start - 4 of those have won trophies more recently than us). Better astmosphere. Less spoilt. Ours is getting an embarrassment. Perhaps we grew to quickly and left a generation who didnt get in acting like automatons. Perhaps its tellys overkill. whatever it is. I have never seen a crowd at SJP more fickle and less aware than it is recently (last 5 years or so) 48622[/snapback] Jesus wept. The fact that the whole "Easy" thing never gets done at SJP apart from yesterday and on very rare occasions at cup games proves to me that it was used yesterday for no other reason than to wind the mackems up. Talk of "40,000 wankaz" and condemnation of the majority of the crowd is a slight overreaction to people taking the piss out of some plebs in the away end, don't you think?? Incidentally I wasn't involved in the chant, and think it's a bit crap, but I'm not quite self-righteous enough to pass judgement on those that were. 48634[/snapback] The chant isnt the point Gemmill. The atmosphere and fickle nature of our crowd is. People seem incapable of thinking without something they heard some fat bloke on SKY say popping into the conversation/argument. Sheep.Easy Easy is simply another example. An embarrassing and cheesy one.

Without detracting from Emres display he played his way into trouble TWICE when he didnt have to. Gave the ball away and the mackems nearly scored as a result. Get it in perspective. In other days with other players we would have 'the best supporters' hammering him for it. Fickle.

Pot stirring? We know NEwcastle has racism problems. There are literally hundreds of incidents every season. listen at the ground, in the pubs, on forums. Alex Williams is the most obvious - hoying bananas at him. Its not shit-stirring. Its simply pointing out that we havent got rid of the problems. On KROF day it needs reaffirming. Tyneside isnt very tolerant. Its fickle alright but is there more? Probably yes. A lot more in my view. We, as fans need to be active. Not sticking head in sand like Peasepud has doen and throw arms in air. ITs not all or nothing. If some are - and there are plenty of them - it doesnt follow the peasepud path of sgetting stroppy and suggesting I said ALL are. Nor does it mean NONE are. However, there are plenty. Sadly. At matches some jeer poor players. Others? Well, its hardly coincidental is it?

The crowd is getting worse at SJP. Its like listening to bairns playing Championship Manager. Walk up to the ground and you here SKYSPORTS soundbites. "This one is WORLD CLASS - CNZ" (and he was poor today- one or two touches and people start rolling over themselves to honour him-in two months they will have him as scapegoat) Sheep? Unfortunately that is too true. I still go to other grounds when i cant get to away games. Places like Norwich, Ipswich, Sheffield Wed, Crewe, Luton etc have a core of proper fans who have been there for years. They understand the club AND its history (before the bairns start - 4 of those have won trophies more recently than us). Better astmosphere. Less spoilt. Ours is getting an embarrassment. Perhaps we grew to quickly and left a generation who didnt get in acting like automatons. Perhaps its tellys overkill. whatever it is. I have never seen a crowd at SJP more fickle and less aware than it is recently (last 5 years or so)

Jeezus fookin Christ on a bloody big bike. What you saying now? that all Toon fans are racist? if you're going to post shite like that why not do it under the pseudonym you normally use for that stuff? 48561[/snapback] Peasepud. Although we play in B&W. not everything has to be diametric. There are pocket so of people and gray areas. I havenst said we are all racist. In light of today though it is worth considering. We have a less than favourable reputation regarding racism as Alex Williams (1984 MCFC) will testify

Is it inconceiveable? think about our players. think about the fact today is 'KROF' day and consider: are all players treat equally?

Very true. Not sure how long you have gone ot SJP PL and I am aware we have our differences but in the last 10 years the make up of the crowd and their Championship Manager/Pop Idol mentaility is one of the least refreshing aspects of the change.

Shearer led the line very well. Link up play was very good too. Zogbia was clueless and out of his depth. I know the kids like him but he did nowt today. The left was clearly our weak link and Sunderland tended to concentrate on that area. Zog flattered. He isnt good enough yet. But he will be. Weakest link today. Seemed to be the concensus around me too. were all old men though.

good player. Needs to move to find his level. It isnt at the level we need but its better than people give him credit for. Another one the boo boys dislike. Jenas, Dyer, Boumsong, Ameobi, Faye, Babayaro. What do they have in common? Coincidence? Beginning to doubt it.

given 7 -OK carr 7.5 - Good game boumsong 7 - Fine. Some very good and some odd moments but OK taylor 7 - Pulled out of position too often and too easily. Some good moments ramage 5.5 - wayward passing solano 7.5 - Great touches emre 8 - Some wayward passing. some outstanding. Almost allowed mackems in on goal x 2. parker 7 - Better than last week. Stillstands off at times and dives in on others. nzogbia 5 - isnt experienced or capable enough yet. Poor shearer 7. Won all he had to. Some lovely link up play ameobi 8 - Excellent , and that is apart from the goals.

|Thats a lazy way of looking at it. Takes no account of what we looked like in August: Woodgate gone and no defence for months. Speed gone Solano gone Robert playing like a twat Bellamy acting like a tit Dyer being a tit Bowyer being useless, slow and mediocre at best Shearer being slower and slower and no service the manager buying the wrong players - SBR Yeah we looked a real quality outfit on and off the field. 48437[/snapback] Your second post Bez, and it's pathetic. I could go into details, but why bother? Oh yeah, Boumsong, Babyaro, Faye, Moore........ 48440[/snapback] Not a great beleiver in FACT then Renton? Try to be sensible and objecive and you might sound intelligent. Tell people which of the obove are incorrect. I mentioned in the post that it was PRE-Souness (that means before) As for Boumsong. Hes a very good player. If you saw Aaron Hughes get murdered off Camara last night and others the weeks prior to us playing you would see he did a good job last week. the games before he was fine. Basically he dropped two clangers against Man Utd. So what? Try to make your own mind up Renton. Dont just listen to SKY.. ...and READ posts before you spout SHITE It amazes me that some people can be so fucking THICK. This bloke spouts about the manager but obviously he cant even READ. That hardly gives you the right does it? AUGUST? Who was manager then shit for brains? Thank you. Today I hope we win. Off to the match now. I appreciate you READING my tetchy reply. It happens when you have gone to these matches in the past and seen Gary Rowell score 3, Jim Pearson miss a penalty, Marco Gabbiadini score at the Gallowgate etc. For those wishing us to lose. YOURE NOT FANS. Yours (feeling wound up as I do on proper derby day) Neil

Anyone who thinks losing is attractive tomorrow is a mackem. If people want us to lose then walk up to fellow fans tomorrow and shout it. See what happens. A proper mag would NEVER wish to lose against the mackems. A daft bairn with fuck all between his ears might though.

|Thats a lazy way of looking at it. Takes no account of what we looked like in August: Woodgate gone and no defence for months. Speed gone Solano gone Robert playing like a twat Bellamy acting like a tit Dyer being a tit Bowyer being useless, slow and mediocre at best Shearer being slower and slower and no service the manager buying the wrong players - SBR Yeah we looked a real quality outfit on and off the field.