ChezGiven

What does that mean? That everyone goes around saying it? Pointless. You mean you want Mike to spend the sorts of money that would get us 10th rather than 17th dont you? So, how much would that be then? As a good poster etc which you are Chez, I won't make an issue of "Mike"............but it isn't a case of spending money to finish 10th rather than 17th, its because he has sold players who could have put us in the top 6 anyway with a little more money and quality added. What is the cost of his sales ? I would accept the financial position more readily, and any reasonable constraints, if he hadn't shown himself to be a total idiot in the vast majority of his actions already. Not sure what sort of issue you could make seeing as i backed you for years against the idiots who used daft names to refer to Shepherd It is what it is. Wherever we have come from is irrelevant now, my point has been our expectations for next year start with the money he invests. You cant wish the club up the league. He's a knacker so i shouldnt be too surprised if he fails to invest over the summer but he would be insane to do that and i dont think he will. I dont expect him to put the sort of money in that will turn that starting 11 into a team that can realistically pick up 50+ points. A good season will have us in the high 40s. Where we have pace, we lack strength on the ball; where we have strength on the ball, we lack pace and guile. To resolve all the issues in the squad will require significant funds. Thats the reality.

Waffle.

What does that mean? That everyone goes around saying it? Pointless. You mean you want Mike to spend the sorts of money that would get us 10th rather than 17th dont you? So, how much would that be then?

There are two things going on here. One is how much money we expect the club to invest over the summer. The figure will either be above (quite a few have said they will be surprised if he spends anything) or below (i reckon 15 -20m) expectations. Once he has spent that amount (there will be uncertainty over how much he could have spent - i reckon he could spend 30m if he gambles a bit), then you have to judge where the resulting squad and manager could be if they put 100% in and play to their potential. Another way of looking at this is to ask what would we need to spend over the summer to have a realistic chance of Europe? 60m for me, maybe more. To be honest, arguing the toss about where we think we ought to be aiming for is just message board drivel. Do we have 60m to spend? No.

I should add that i watched West Ham v Sunderland twice last weekend. Not once did i think we had the power, pace or strength on the ball of either team. We'd be raped by either of them if we played them away this weekend. 20m is what we have to get to THAT level.

I expect a club of our size to beleive it can do better than clubs like Stoke, Birmingham, Fulham, Blackburn etc. I don't think it will all come straight away and I don't think we can expect a top half finish next season. But I don't expect us to aim for mediocraty! With regards to your earlier point about lower expectations getting the fans behind the team, I think it will do the exact opposite. For my money there was a hell of a lot of apathy at the begining of this season which only lifted because we won games straight away and went straight up to the top of the league. That happened because this league is so poor and we had superior players. We won't get those sort of results against premiership teams (especially if we have based our recruitment on trying to finish just above the relegation places). Our fans don't think of us the same way as Burnley fans think of their club so a relegation battle won't get anyone behind the team! No, my point was not that lower expectations will get fans behind the team. It was that next season will be enjoyable and probably more successful if we approach it with realistic ambitions. In simplistic terms, if we expect Europe, then 17th will be a failure, if we expect relegation then 17th will be a success. I'm not saying that what we should expect 17th, just illustrating the role they clearly play in determining the enjoyment of the season. Realistically, we have about 20m to play with over the summer, lets see what happens, who comes in, who goes out, who the manager is etc, then look at the teams around the bottom half and set the expectations from there. The issue here for me is that perhaps fans expect us to invest more money than we actually have. Since the squad is not that great and 20m is what we have to spend, what do you expect these players and Hughton to be able to acheive? If a realistic assessment of the relative abilities of our squad members vis a vis the squads of competing clubs shows a number of gaps and the investment is restricted to a feasible 20m, are you sensible in the head to expect Europe?

I dont expect us to beat Sunderland away, nor any team at their level or better unless we spend at least 20m, even then it depends on a lot of different things. I expect us to pick up points away from home against the worst sides since we could only manage a draw at WBA this season who most will have as going down. How many do i expect to win at home out of 19 games? Maybe 7 or 8? 6 or 7 draws? Again depends. Whats that then in points? 42 ish. Its going to be tough however you look at it.

I disagree. I believe people believed a club like NUFC should hope to be champions given its size and stature in the game, thats what i reckon was behind Stevie's statement. Maybe he can comment himself about this. I dont believe that many 'expected' it at all. We can agree to disagree on this, as the point i am making is about a fundamental understanding of the emotions of the fans 9 months ago. I dont think anyone thought it was definitely going to happen i.e. an expectation. Most managers send messages to players in training iyam. Media is used to communicate to fans, which is what the club are doing when Hughton discusses next season.

Re: the poll. I'd rather rely on more qualitative data where i read 1000's of posts on here and NO expressing grave concerns about the season, reading the humility in the voices of every fan pre-Cardiff expecting defeat and the delight in the win, the attitudes of the core posters on here about the future of the club and the predictions of many that things were going toget worse before they got better. A poll means fuck all, its not been professionally phrased or researched beforehand so it has no validity as a source of opinion. As someone who specialises in research, i'd rather trust what i know from reading these forums. Your poll could have just been capturing people's hopes, not their expectations. Secondly, why would Chris Hughton use press conferences and post-match interviews to send messages to players? Howay man, wake up.

Aim for 7th and you're more likely to survive than aiming for 17th. I see your point Happy, honestly I do. But are you expecting Ashley to go ahead and spend 50 mill pounds next window? You write what you think we should do. You too, Christmas. I'm not saying aim for 17th, never did, but we have to be realistic. I'd like a knight on shining arabic horse horse to make us the next Man City ... but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Why can't we aim to do what Birmingham's done this season or Stoke (to some extent). We've built a solid, tight-knit base. If Ashley spends a realistic amount of 20-25 mil to bring in some extra players, that'll help. But going in, selling players and getting rid of CH (how many times have I read ... He's not a Prem. manager) and splashing the cash is most likely going to rock the unity that's developed over the last nine months. Also, if we do splash the cash, who do we end up spending it on? Why won't they be likely to be the next Owen , Viduka etc. Finally, heaven forbid we splash the cash but still get relegated ... what happens then? Ashley won't bail us out again, the team talk after Layton Orient won't build unity again ... and we'd be floundering in the CCC in heavy debt and royally fucked. Ashley is gojing to spend SOME money because he doesn't won't to see us dip in worth again by being relegated ... but this gung-ho talk of 'do it, and do it now' isn't going to work, nor is it going to happen. Be realistic, that's all I'm saying. As much as I care about NUFC ... we ARE just another promoted club. Anyway, Christmas Tree and Happy Face, I'm happy to have the discussion with you. Peasepud, I don't understand what you're on about ... Are you Mick Dennis? I'd love to meet the Newcastle fans saying we should sack Hughton. Look above where I sarcastically took the piss out of anyone suggesting doing what Stoke have done would be a bad thing. Talk of "ensuring survival" should ensure a fine for anyone at the club though. If expectations are that low going in to next season it's bound to become a self fulfilling prophecy. Expectations at the start of this season were not that we would be champions so your last sentence is drivel.

Reach for the stars and you can make it to the moon. We aim above the mark to hit the mark. You can’t rest unless you set goals that make you stretch. Aim at heaven and you get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither. Not failure, but low aim, is crime. It’s a funny thing about life: if you refuse to accept anything but the very best, you will often get it. We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. etc. Aim for 7th and you're more likely to survive than aiming for 17th. Its taken me 12 years to get to where i wanted to be in my life, i've worked hard to do it and am finally about where i thought my ambition could take me. Took me till i was 36 to acheieve what i wanted. If i had expected to be here before i was 30 i would have been wrong and disappointed. I expected to get there eventually but i expected it to come from hard work, experience and importantly patience. We werent unlucky last season and relegated by chance, we were shit, the club had fallen apart, it was broken. To put it back together again and return it to where it was in 2005/6, a full 4 seaons ago takes more than being promoted out of a shit league with players of dubious premier league quality. I know what the club are trying to do with all their current communication, they are trying to manage expectations. The crowd at SJP this season has been right behind the team. Why? Because expectation levels were low at the start of the season, so our performances generated happiness. But when we came 5th, the fans were a disappointed. Why? Because the exectations of the 3rd the season before and the 4th in 01/02 had created high expectations. The happiness of a crowd and the positivity in a club is intrinsically connected to its expectations. If you want to harness the power of the 12th man at SJP, you cant go into a season where realistically under the constraints of even a budget of 30m you can look to hopefully hit mid-table but have the fans expecting Europe. In fact the best way to harness the support and promote positivity throughout the club is to have expectations set around survival so that when mid-table results get produced, you capitalise on the extra positivity generated. In fact, you may even do better than you hoped at best. This, for me, is not about saying 'we are going to be a yo-yo club, get used to it', its about achieving what Trevor Francis said after the Forest match, getting the fans expectations right. You can argue the toss about whether they are right to do this but this is what they are doing and for the reasons i have outlined.

Wtf is overclocking?

Draw would be enough.

The irony of concluding 'you can write your own headlines' works on so many levels too. Top stuff from George as usual.

Euphemism?

Brilliant.

I wouldnt be seen dead drinking Glenfiddich 12.

Doesnt fit with your view of Obama the terrorist does it?

We'd have gone down this season.

The UK manufacturing sector is usually underestimated by people. 22.5% of GDP is manufacturing. Its not that bad. Let the pound slide, your holidays wont be as lavish but at least you'll be still enjoying them in years to come. I'd price the pound at parity with the euro, keep sticking bills in circulation and let the exporters pull us forward.

Me neither, no doubt many of them of the "I wont go back while Ashley is there..." ....unless we're playing well/lifting trophies, mugs. Some of you lot are daft like, banging on about attendances in one post, beaming with pride that there will be a higher average gate than Liverpool, then slagging off the people who will create that attendance in the next.

One figure i would be interested to look at is the number of unique visitors to the ground over the season. It might not be possible to pull the data out from the customer databases as those paying cash at the box office or turnstile wont show up but it would be interesting to see. I suspect we have a lot of fans who dont go every week and pick and choose which ones to go to meaning 42k one week is not the same 42k the next, if you know what i mean.

Corporate seats/boxes too?

Does anyone else reckon Mossad have clocked this thread yet? They have a dedicated team after all.