timnufc

I generally agree with you, defintely about Kitbag. If we can get that bandwagon going it could be very powerful. With regards to singing St. James' Park, I think it could put off other sponsers (this is assuming it actually is up for sale, I know) which is a good thing for me - I dont want any contracts secured in the fear that when he sells up one day the new owners have to abide by the existing contract in place. I just want it St. James' Park. Again, I know its probably destined to stay S*orts D*rect. If we wanna give a response to this get a simple t-shirt, I'm using the link in my signature for mine, get the words KITBAG.COM printed on there, anything else about SJP aswell if you want, but aslong as KITBAG is on and wear it for Chelsea!

I like it. Obviously it might turn into 'stand up for SJP' too. Singing that and displaying stuff about kitbag are two things everyone can easily do which shoves this latest news back at him, while supporting the team.

I agree. About renewing, I've always said that the best way to go about things with Ashley is to get tickets as a member, or general sale. Granted it may work out a tad more expensive if you go to every game, but you could miss the odd game or even buy cheaper tickets. If more people refused to buy ST's, we'd have so much more power, or be in a better position to give a reponse. Brilliant idea about the billboards, how would we find out? I'd totally be interested and back that.

Top darts. Which is why any form of protest should involve KITBAG.COM because that is the only way we can truly get back at Ashley, if his actions result in a competitor gaining more exposure.

www.cafepress.co.uk And the Back: The best response to this would be as many of those inside SJP as possible the next home game. If some kind of publicity could get going for kitbag as a result of 'renaming' the stadium, then it would hurt Ashley more than anything else. I urge anyone who wanst to give a response to order this t-shirt which takes 2 mins to design at cafepress.co.uk

This is true. KITBAG.COM should be put up everywhere by people, buy a t-shirt with it printed on and turn up to the match like that for starters.

Do a massive banner saying KITBAG.COM

Anyone giving stick out to people who ask if they can sit down is wrong, obviously. Likewise anyone who shouts 'sick the f*** down you t***' for example. If theres an old woman or someone with a medcial condition behind then just sit down, imo, unless you can swap seats. There dosent need to be any abusive crap, and that goes for the steward malarky too. "Are you going to sit down?" "No, I'd prefer not to" *carries on supporting team .... thats all that is needed. "Shove your seats up your arse" etc is inviting conflict and potentially bringing on problems. Sunday showed there is potential to make the ground louder, give it time to grow. The Leazes L7 only started with a very small group - it ended up 3,000 strong. We need that core together, starting the atmosphere, because there were times against Arsenal when the singing spread through to the Gallowgate end and made a difference. But to do this we've got to leave out any confrontation, and not respond with a 'f*** you' attitude. The 'danger' of standing is a total con we are supposed to just accept, when it reality we are being completely shafted. If they are going to basically keep enforcing this con, with no admission that standing is not dangerous, then people have to take things into their own hands. The defeatist & easy thing to do would be to shrug your shoulders and think there is no choice, but they cannot deal with the numbers which are on our side if get organised - e.g. Leazes Corner. We just need to do it in a way which is not abusive or aggressive, and trying to co-operate with our fellow fans, swapping seats for example if possible.

Even if he did i reckon Pardew would get told not to play him That would then put the spot light firmly on Pardew if he rates Barton and at least wants him in the squad as he's already said.

Have you watched it all?

Strongly advise this is watched, all of it.

Everyone is moving to the strawberry corner, if we stick together this can still be a blessing in disguise, if your going to move I'd advise there. Just like Level 7 if we have the numbers we have the power, everyone get themselves to the strawberry corner.

Agree, if we get general sale tickets together theres NOTHING they can do, we just need to work together. If we do this, we can give a nice two finger response to Ashley on the first game of next season in the Strawberry Corner.

? What'd they do Am I just being thick as mince or have I missed summat? Actually setting up and attempting dialogue. Its the proper thing to do but what it did was take the heat off the club and reduce the chances of protest at the move. By then continually moving the goalposts on the decision about moving people they were able to slowly let it die off without any major kick off. Now the first people will know that L4 isnt going to happen is when that letter drops through the door telling them theyre in Gallowgate Upper Tier or somewhere. Pay on the day, sit where you like, don't give him your ST money. Or just don't go, anymore. Shame, I'm going to miss the matchday craic. Exactly, if you have a ST and requested leazes L4 but get gallowate, persue the matter to get it changed. It works for them if everyone pipes down and accepts it, but its up to us not to and keep banging on the door. But the fact is as long as theres a core of fans in L4, which there will be through general sale tickets, it will evolve and grow over time. The core group will become bigger through more people who get match day tickets joining L4 because they see a group of fans singing, and it will go from there. If anyone was thinking about getting a ST for Level4 then its now wise not to, and get general sale tickets in L4 , garenteeing your place.

He didnt 'show loyalty' to Hughton or 'give him another chance'. He simply left Hughton in charge to hold the fort while he was trying to sell the club, which is why he didnt appoint a manager. In the mean time Hughton started doing well and I suspect Ashley then had a re-think and realised he didnt need to sell as a return to the Premiership and Sky money looked a strong possiblity early on. He struck lucky that the temporary man in charge until he found a buyer actually turned out to be a good manager, nothing to do with judgement or loyalty.

"Wise left the club, so any plans he had in south america went with him." -You would have thought Llambias & co would have followed up these deals in place with the club, as they said, but fair enough a potential explanation. "Wise never lied about the deal, hence its inclusion in the case. So we can discount that as a myth." - Your missing my point, and a big point to the whole thing imo. Wise lied about the deal by talking to Keegan under the pretence of "I have seen a great player", in the context of manager & DOF working together on genuine footballing business and trying to get good players in. Once Keegan had a look, watched on youtube and said no, Wise told him, basically, 'I LIED TO YOU, he's not a great player, because I have never seen him play - this is actually a favour for agents Ive just wasted your time looking him up and in talking to you in a totally different conext. I'm being very objective here and I'm not 'looking' for any angle... how is that NOT undermining the working relationship between DOF & manager? How are you supposed to take it the next your DOF tells you "I've found a great player"? The trust is broken, as is respect. I believe there was probably other stuff before that that involved similair attitudes, which Keegan allured to on ESPN ("We were negoeting for a player, agreed a price, and when they went to the club for the player, knocked a few million off the price") "I dont buy into the fact Gonzalez was the reason he left and think he'd have left even if Gonzalez wasn't signed" - I believe he would have been (naturally) unhappy with the goings on and seemingly unproffesional enviroment, but dont think he'd have left if the Gonzalez fiasco hadnt happened, and wouldnt have left if things were workable. "What exactly do you think the club lied about? ...... Gonzalez was only player imposed on him. Milner, Colo, Xisco, Guthrie, Bassong all omitted from the tribunal - speaks volumes." - They lied about Wise not having final say. One witness said Wise wouldnt have took the job if he didnt. That was the only deal mentioned, and I think there would have been shades of grey to this, with Keegan perhaps forcing things through like Bassong, and Keegan approving of Jonas, Colo & Xisco having taken a look at them after they were put forward by Wise. "I've got this player, he's sh*t - isn't the best sales pitch." - which brings up back to Your missing my point, and a big point to the whole thing imo. Wise lied about the deal by talking to Keegan under the pretence of "I have seen a great player" - in the context of manager & DOF working together on genuine footballing business, trying to get good players in. Once Keegan had a look, watched on youtube and said no, Wise told him, basically, 'I LIED TO YOU, he's not a great player, because I have actually never seen him play - this is actually a favour for agents so Ive just wasted your time looking him up and in talking to you in a totally different conext. I'm being very objective here and I'm not 'looking' for any angle... how is that NOT undermining the working relationship between DOF & manager? How are you supposed to take it the next your DOF tells you "I've found a great player"? The trust is broken, as is respect. I believe there was probably other stuff before that that involved similair attitudes, which Keegan allured to on ESPN ("We were negoeting for a player, agreed a price, and when they went to the club for the player, knocked a few million off the price") “It will continue to be the position that no player will be bought for the first team without your approval, save of course for commercial deals (which we refer to as financials) which will remain within the sole discretion of the Board." - Which is my point, thats murky terrioty of what can you class as a financial signing? That could be very subjective, and is instating a condition which WAS NOT solving the problem. I've not mentioned the witness as they didn't add anything to the case. "Keegan didn't have the final say written into his contract. It was agreed that Wise and the Clubs statements made it implied. Ashley said he thought it was "“blindingly obvious" that a DoF would have input on the commercial aspect of the football club. So they were looking to make it formal." - Keegan said it was agreed verbally he would give the greenlight on all transfers, Ashley denies that, take your pick who to believe. It was either a clumsy attempt to get together the managerial strucutre or it wasnt mentioned because he knew Keegan wouldnt agree to that (and would lose potential 3year ST money for example). Either way, it wasnt handled in the right way. "Shafted with another loan player being imposed on him." - again it comes back to 'financial singing' being very subjective and dangerous territory. Clearly Wise wasnt there without strong opinions on players, and ultimately takes control away from the manager.

I say again, Im staggered you arnt asking this question yourself: Where on earth are these top south american youngsters then? That deal was done 3 years ago, so where are they? What a deal that was. Secondly, your missing the break of trust that conversation brought about. Like I said, its not just about the deal going ahead, its about Wise lying about the nature of the deal in such a blatent way, showing no respect and undermining the whole DOF set-up. He was well and truly shafted, and a simple mention like 'over the Gonzalez deal' dosent cover what is in the tribunal, and how this deal came about. Have you read the report? How can you say it only shows Gonzalez was imposed? It showed they lied to the fans and Keegan about transfers, lied about Gonzalez being a "great player" they'd "seen him play", showed they tried to change his contract - not try resolve issues as they claimed, one witness at the club claimed Wise would not have taken the job if he didnt have final say on transfers, and the report basically shows them to be a) as clueless as you can imagine about the management structure or B. caught up in their own lies at the tribunal hearing. This isnt my opinion, its just whats in the report, so why are you saying otherwise?? Like someone said, when they clarified his position, they stated commercial deals are soley at the boards discrection... and what do you class as a commercial deal..? Thats dangerous territory, and it was not written into his orignal contract, so they were trying to change his contract basically. If he'd accepted those terms and carried on, he could have been shafted by Ashley & his mates much more and not had a leg to stand on when complaining about it. I can understand wanting clarification on the 25m claim, I would myself, I dont know if he's been advised badly or his lawyers were simply making the point about stigma damages (which are very true damages) but I was suprised by the figure myself.

Your suggesting it was 'only' the Gonzalez deal, but what did that deal consist of? It consisted of Wise undermining the whole working relationship with Keegan, it consisted of breaking any trust between the two. How? Because Wise came to Keegan and said he's 'found a great player called Gonzalez'... when Keegan looked at his credentials and said he could find much about him, Wise told him to watch on youtube. After watching the video, Keegan told Wise he didnt want the player, he hadnt seen enough to say he'd be good enough. Once Keegan had said no, Wise then turned around and told him actually this deal is a favour for some agents and nothing to do with football, so he'll be going ahead with it anyway. Think about that for a second... any professional respect has been totally broken by that bloody conversation, 'I've got a great player for you' - 2 seconds later - 'dont care if you dont want him, I've actually never seen him play either, its really a favour for agents so shut up and get on with your job'... how is that a workable set up? How can that set up carry on with any trust and respect? Its not just a simple disagreement, its the manager being totally undermined. The way this deal transpired is all in the tribunal report, just not picked up. Obviously Keegan told Ashley & Llambias he is not happy with the situation and does not want this player, and Ashley let his mate go ahead with it knowing the situation. What does that tell Keegan about Ashley, the man at the top? I don't see the issue with doing an influential south american agent a favour, which it has been confirmed cost us nothing. Just stick him in the reserves. I think its a scape goat anyway. Milner replacement was the bigger issue. I think we had someone lined up (similar to Routledges replacement) and it fell through. Probably over Dekka's offering peanuts for wages. Keegan said at the time on Milner; 'He's a player, in an ideal world, you would not want to lose, but I just want to make it absolutely clear that at the end of the day, it was my decision to sell him.' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...ision-sell.html I doubt he made that decision without something in the pipeline, maybe there was truth in the rumour of Bastian Schweinsteiger; http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/new...er-cheap-971181 re the bit in bold... I see a massive problem, and Im staggered you arnt asking this question yourself: Where on earth are these top south american youngsters then? That deal was done 3 years ago, so where are they? What a deal that was. Secondly, your missing the break of trust that conversation brought about. Like I said, its not just about the deal going ahead, its about Wise lying about the nature of the deal in such a blatent way, showing no respect and undermining the whole DOF set-up. Like someone said, when they clarified his position, they stated commercial deals are soley at the boards discrection... and what do you class as a commercial deal..? Thats dangerous territory, and it was not written into his orignal contract, so they were trying to change his contract basically. If he'd accepted those terms and carried on, he could have been shafted by Ashley & his mates much more and not had a leg to stand on when complaining about it.

Your suggesting it was 'only' the Gonzalez deal, but what did that deal consist of? It consisted of Wise undermining the whole working relationship with Keegan, it consisted of breaking any trust between the two. How? Because Wise came to Keegan and said he's 'found a great player called Gonzalez'... when Keegan looked at his credentials and said he could find much about him, Wise told him to watch on youtube. After watching the video, Keegan told Wise he didnt want the player, he hadnt seen enough to say he'd be good enough. Once Keegan had said no, Wise then turned around and told him actually this deal is a favour for some agents and nothing to do with football, so he'll be going ahead with it anyway. Think about that for a second... any professional respect has been totally broken by that bloody conversation, 'I've got a great player for you' - 2 seconds later - 'dont care if you dont want him, I've actually never seen him play either, its really a favour for agents so shut up and get on with your job'... how is that a workable set up? How can that set up carry on with any trust and respect? Its not just a simple disagreement, its the manager being totally undermined. The way this deal transpired is all in the tribunal report, just not picked up. Obviously Keegan told Ashley & Llambias he is not happy with the situation and does not want this player, and Ashley let his mate go ahead with it knowing the situation. What does that tell Keegan about Ashley, the man at the top?

Right well there are 4 blocks at the back of level 4, people have just gotta try every block, we've gotta at least find out if theyre going to lie about whats avaialble and if a lot of people get the same response then we know whats going on. You could always buy tickets game by game in that area instead.

Well like you said, if some fans can buy a new season ticket instead of renewing then that would help.

How could they stop that though?

I think you'll be hard pushed to get any of those to do that though, I know I wouldnt be happy if nufc.com suddenly decided my seat as being designated for new people. I know thats not what you're meaning btw but the fanzines etc would technically be no better than the club if they decided to change what happens where you sit. For that reason you'll not get any backing from the main players (I could imagine Mick Martin being happy to stick his head over the parapet and promote it in TF however) and definitely not NUST (but saying that you probably wouldnt get a statement from them even if the club advocated ritually sacrificing sections of the ground to Ashley on a match by match basis). Another thing to be aware of, if this becomes common knowledge that you're moving the section to another area then the club will do whatever it can to block that. We all know that the real reason is to silence the fans so they'll do whatever they can to keep that going. What needs to be done is word of mouth in the Leazes Corner until the end of the season. Posters/flyers all around the corner saying where to move to in order to keep the section together.

We need to pull together and not let that bastard take away what we have. Every home game 3,000 fans standing & singing together most of the game regardless of the score. We can still have that if we stick together in another location. We can still have the standing if we stick together and have 3,000 fans standing. And being lower down might well allow the noise to spread more through-out the stadium. And imagine that bastards face next season when he thinks he's dispersed us, looks across to leazes level 4 for example, and see's 3,000 fans standing together even closer to him.

Aye thats what could potentially come of this where ever we go. If people move in numbers then it could actually be a blessing in disguise in terms of getting the noise to spread, whether its the gallowgate or leazes level 4.