NJS

Good point - I think they think it guarantees them 5 years of "working thing out" rather than snap votes thereatening everything every month

I thought they had a "Well at least we got to the final" look about them from the off - a shame like.

Maybe for another thread but you're wrong - modernisation was never fought especially in new areas like Selby. Other countries (Germany and Norway for example) took the view that subsidising "uncompeitive" industries was actually beneficial overall when communities and related economies were included. Thatcher's view was not only to destroy them without considering that view, but to not give a seconds thought for what would replace them apart from a "the market will provide" line. As HF said earlier its a lot harder for places with a history of over-reliance on concentrated economic providers to change overnight compared with an are like the SE which has always mainly worked on a more individual economic basis. I would add that even those who can be convinced of the long term benefits of the closures in hindsight cannot forgive the absolute relish the bitch and her cohorts exhibitited as they did it.

What do you think the Tories have conceded? The inheritance tax change is still there but postponed so apart from the cabinet positions and a commitment to a referendum on PR which as far as I can see isn't binding in implementation terms I don't see how the Tories have been "moderated".

This is still what concerns me - fair enough there was a gap between the two main parties but if say 40 seats hadn't changed and the Libs had got a few less then as I said earlier with reference to Major's time, you could even have the government being decided by the various Nationalists which is even less fair imo. Even if AV is adopted it will still be the Liberals usually choosing the government from two bigger parties.

It's about time someone produced an opinion poll of Liberal voters on whether they'd still have voted that way if they knew the outcome. Obviously there will be people like Meenzer (I think) who sees this outcome, whether backing the Tories or Labour, as the whole point but I'd like to see how many "I actually voted anti-Tory" views there are (or even anti-Labour).

Properties worth more than £2m - fucking hell.

Fair point. I dunno - calling the global financial meltdown following the American sub prime mortgage fiasco Labours financial crisis doesnt seem like the bright new modern consensual politics line we are being spoon fed They're going to present a united front though, aren't they? I take your point like. Yeah I still object to the petty party point scoring based on what I consider a lie but I admit the bitter bit.

Fair point.

ad nauseum. Tory lapdog cunts. I'd add that cancelling ID cards aside, there is absolutely no chance of any of the civil liberty measures being reversed. And the inheritance tax change isn't ruled out - they've just put the 10k thing in as a priority to be reached first so I'd expect the tories of finding a fiddle for that quite soon.

I can't remember talk of oil around the islands before the war but the suggestion was of mineral rights in the Antarctic itself which the Falklands would provide a claim basis/logistical centre for.

It's not just Longbenton. I work in the private sector in Silverlink...but if Long Bent One lost a lot of work me and my co-workers would almost certainly be out of a job too. During the Miner's strike there was data from Germany published (which they used to justify subsidies) that suggested 1 miner's job = 30 jobs in the local economy - I assume that would apply to a lesser degree with any large employer.

That's why I get really annoyed with "forget Thatcher" sentiments - if they undid the damage then I think it would be feasible but with their lack of regret bordering on celebration and the public sector jibes suggesting another attack, I don't see it happening. The article mentions Longbenton - can anyone imagine the holocaust it would cause if they closed it down?

I would love to ask him what he thinks of someone like me who voted Labour in the South East who has a private sector job - probably parental brainwashing would be his answer. I'd also ask him to compare the benefits budget with the bank bailouts,the Olympics or Crossrail.

Hopefully with the author swinging from a lampost. Fucking staggering.

Thing that stands out for me is the 10k tax band. 20% VAT will wipe that out.

Most experts say that torture doesn't work though - Cheney keeps claiming attacks have been stopped because of it but can't prove it.

I agree but some "proper" left wing ideas would help too imo - though I think they may suffer from constant government references to clearing up their shit.

And you'll be pleased to know I had my first vomit moment on hearing a soundbite of Cameron talking about the "common good" - as sickening as hearing Ashley talking about taking the club forward.

I think as I said earlier, everyone including the Lib Dems themselves are learning exactly what has just been theory before and finding out how things actually work in this situation which I don't think is a bad thing. It will make the campaign/debate over the PR referendum quite interesting and at least "real" scenarios are now evident. My position remains the same - I can see the fairness of PR in principle but I won't vote for a system of ordinal preference.

I already said earlier when it looked like a Tory majority that there was a couple of positives in the medium term for labour and now I'd add that I hope this fucking destroys the Liberals.

"Specific genre"?

The stupid thing about a strict 5 year plan with a financial target in football is it takes no account of random factors like Vuckic being the new Ronaldo and a sale wiping out half the debt or one years loss in one hit. Even a sop like "any substantial sales will be allocated to the purchase budget" would cover that but as it is not only is there little if any moeny going out, I read it as any money coming in will be priotirised as debt clearance.

You see, all of those PR systems require second, third, nth choices - I'm sure it's not just me who finds that instinctively wrong - if I make a choice I see it as one choice. The Tory is not my nth choice or even my whatever the ordinal for infinity is - he's just not my fucking choice. (Also applies to BNP and UKIP)

I may have misunderstood the various PR systems but reading about AV if I have to put all candidates in order of preference, I won't vote.